View Poll Results: Do you like CVTs?
YES
25
42.37%
NO
20
33.90%
Neutral/no opinion yet
14
23.73%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll
Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) and people's opinions on them
07-30-12, 02:57 PM
#32
I first drove a CVT in the RX 400h and did an extensive review here on it. If I recall it felt weird and wasn't an initial fan. Its just odd to go from years of driving conventional autos and manuals to a CVT which doesn't shift.
Well now having owned CVTs and driven plenty I love them and to me a standard automatic feels less luxurious and some brands just can't get a tranny right. Now there are different levels of CVTs. For instance the GSh and LSh debuted world firsts with their CVTs, they are strong as hell and while buzzy by far the best around in refinement. How strong? My GS 450h is fine
and we all know I drive hard.
When my wife (g/f at the time) had an Altima, the CVT was well suited to the car. Very unrefined in comparison to a Lexus but got the job done and matched perfectly with the engine like most CVTs.
As for the ability to "simulate" a gear, its cool to hold a gear like a traditional transmission. Rarely is it used but its good that it is there. Everyone and everything has paddle shifters so no biggie.
I drove a new G25 with the 7 speed auto extensively recently and I kept thinking "damn this tranny sucks" and wished it had a CVT. In comparison I found the CVT in the Maxima great for the car even if it isn't a "4DSC" as advertised.
So I am a big CVT supporter. The poll is close!
Well now having owned CVTs and driven plenty I love them and to me a standard automatic feels less luxurious and some brands just can't get a tranny right. Now there are different levels of CVTs. For instance the GSh and LSh debuted world firsts with their CVTs, they are strong as hell and while buzzy by far the best around in refinement. How strong? My GS 450h is fine
and we all know I drive hard. When my wife (g/f at the time) had an Altima, the CVT was well suited to the car. Very unrefined in comparison to a Lexus but got the job done and matched perfectly with the engine like most CVTs.
As for the ability to "simulate" a gear, its cool to hold a gear like a traditional transmission. Rarely is it used but its good that it is there. Everyone and everything has paddle shifters
so no biggie.I drove a new G25 with the 7 speed auto extensively recently and I kept thinking "damn this tranny sucks" and wished it had a CVT. In comparison I found the CVT in the Maxima great for the car even if it isn't a "4DSC" as advertised.
So I am a big CVT supporter. The poll is close!
07-30-12, 03:14 PM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
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I drove the following Audi A4 at a BMW Team USA drive event.
I'll be honest and say that I didn't even realize it was a CVT until I got back after the drive, but the reason for that is that the newest and best automatic transmissions like the ZF 8-speed shift so smoothly and have gear ratios that are so close together that it makes it tough to tell or know. I *hated* the CVT though, but it really depends on the programming of the car. In this Audi, it was programmed to always run the tallest ratio possible and left the RPMs under 2000 even with pretty heavy throttle. Hated the responsiveness. In the sport mode it was more responsive. If I were to buy an A4 I'd be sure to get the Quattro model just for the ZF 8 speed tranny and NOT the CVT. I just like the sound and feel of an engine winding up and shifting through gears. I like my cars to sound and feel like cars, not boats or aircraft. I also like to know what "gear" I'm in. I drove a manual tranny car for many many years. 6 speeds I can keep track of in my head, but that gets a lot harder with 8. I think 6 gears is the sweet spot, but everybody is moving towards more gears now.
Anything built by human beings can and will fail. Manuals, automatics, CVTs, etc. Overall I'd say manual transmissions are the best due to simplicity, but even manuals can have problems. After their automatics blew up in everybody's faces some years ago now, Honda/Acura finally came out with some manual transmissions for their cars which people had been wanting for a long time, except those developed problems over time too in the form of synchronizer issues!
I'll be honest and say that I didn't even realize it was a CVT until I got back after the drive, but the reason for that is that the newest and best automatic transmissions like the ZF 8-speed shift so smoothly and have gear ratios that are so close together that it makes it tough to tell or know. I *hated* the CVT though, but it really depends on the programming of the car. In this Audi, it was programmed to always run the tallest ratio possible and left the RPMs under 2000 even with pretty heavy throttle. Hated the responsiveness. In the sport mode it was more responsive. If I were to buy an A4 I'd be sure to get the Quattro model just for the ZF 8 speed tranny and NOT the CVT. I just like the sound and feel of an engine winding up and shifting through gears. I like my cars to sound and feel like cars, not boats or aircraft. I also like to know what "gear" I'm in. I drove a manual tranny car for many many years. 6 speeds I can keep track of in my head, but that gets a lot harder with 8. I think 6 gears is the sweet spot, but everybody is moving towards more gears now.
Anything built by human beings can and will fail. Manuals, automatics, CVTs, etc. Overall I'd say manual transmissions are the best due to simplicity, but even manuals can have problems. After their automatics blew up in everybody's faces some years ago now, Honda/Acura finally came out with some manual transmissions for their cars which people had been wanting for a long time, except those developed problems over time too in the form of synchronizer issues!
07-30-12, 03:56 PM
#34
I drove the following Audi A4 at a BMW Team USA drive event.
I'll be honest and say that I didn't even realize it was a CVT until I got back after the drive, but the reason for that is that the newest and best automatic transmissions like the ZF 8-speed shift so smoothly and have gear ratios that are so close together that it makes it tough to tell or know. I *hated* the CVT though, but it really depends on the programming of the car. In this Audi, it was programmed to always run the tallest ratio possible and left the RPMs under 2000 even with pretty heavy throttle. Hated the responsiveness. In the sport mode it was more responsive. If I were to buy an A4 I'd be sure to get the Quattro model just for the ZF 8 speed tranny and NOT the CVT. I just like the sound and feel of an engine winding up and shifting through gears. I like my cars to sound and feel like cars, not boats or aircraft. I also like to know what "gear" I'm in. I drove a manual tranny car for many many years. 6 speeds I can keep track of in my head, but that gets a lot harder with 8. I think 6 gears is the sweet spot, but everybody is moving towards more gears now.
Anything built by human beings can and will fail. Manuals, automatics, CVTs, etc. Overall I'd say manual transmissions are the best due to simplicity, but even manuals can have problems. After their automatics blew up in everybody's faces some years ago now, Honda/Acura finally came out with some manual transmissions for their cars which people had been wanting for a long time, except those developed problems over time too in the form of synchronizer issues!
I'll be honest and say that I didn't even realize it was a CVT until I got back after the drive, but the reason for that is that the newest and best automatic transmissions like the ZF 8-speed shift so smoothly and have gear ratios that are so close together that it makes it tough to tell or know. I *hated* the CVT though, but it really depends on the programming of the car. In this Audi, it was programmed to always run the tallest ratio possible and left the RPMs under 2000 even with pretty heavy throttle. Hated the responsiveness. In the sport mode it was more responsive. If I were to buy an A4 I'd be sure to get the Quattro model just for the ZF 8 speed tranny and NOT the CVT. I just like the sound and feel of an engine winding up and shifting through gears. I like my cars to sound and feel like cars, not boats or aircraft. I also like to know what "gear" I'm in. I drove a manual tranny car for many many years. 6 speeds I can keep track of in my head, but that gets a lot harder with 8. I think 6 gears is the sweet spot, but everybody is moving towards more gears now.
Anything built by human beings can and will fail. Manuals, automatics, CVTs, etc. Overall I'd say manual transmissions are the best due to simplicity, but even manuals can have problems. After their automatics blew up in everybody's faces some years ago now, Honda/Acura finally came out with some manual transmissions for their cars which people had been wanting for a long time, except those developed problems over time too in the form of synchronizer issues!
07-30-12, 07:09 PM
#36
now imagine if it had 150hp from NA engine, and 4 people in it, going uphill....
How would you like that? It was pretty bad feeling in that Avensis with S-CVT that i drove... BUT, manual mode works like any other car. So, even for slow cars, there is an option if you want to drive fast, you can play with "7 speeds" and feels like any other transmission. Of course paddles are a must.
Avensis had 4200 rpm limit when in normal mode and with gas pedal to the metal, and 5400 when in sport mode. With 4 people, 150hp and uphill, you can imagine the result.
Now these new ones supposedly change gears when accelerating hard, so what you "hear" is normal. So it goes to max rpm and then drops by 600rpm or so... like here (this was manual mode):
So I think this is a lot more acceptable than what we experienced initially :-)
How would you like that? It was pretty bad feeling in that Avensis with S-CVT that i drove... BUT, manual mode works like any other car. So, even for slow cars, there is an option if you want to drive fast, you can play with "7 speeds" and feels like any other transmission. Of course paddles are a must.
Avensis had 4200 rpm limit when in normal mode and with gas pedal to the metal, and 5400 when in sport mode. With 4 people, 150hp and uphill, you can imagine the result.
Now these new ones supposedly change gears when accelerating hard, so what you "hear" is normal. So it goes to max rpm and then drops by 600rpm or so... like here (this was manual mode):
So I think this is a lot more acceptable than what we experienced initially :-)
07-30-12, 09:02 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
The concept of CVTs is certainly nothing new. In the early 1960s, over 50 years ago, a Dutch company named D.A.F. was using belt-drives with variable-diameter pulleys in their vehicles. I can remember reading about them, as a kid, in MECHANIX ILLUSTRATED magazine's 1961 new-car preview. Needless to say, those early CVTs had significant durability problems, even with small low-torque engines.
http://antholonet.com/EngineersCars/DAF/daf.html
Subaru, in the modera-era, first used them on the early-90s FWD three-cylinder Justy. I remember test-driving a Justy. Its CVT, to my senses, actually felt less-quirky, and more like a conventional automatic, than some of the ones to follow.
http://antholonet.com/EngineersCars/DAF/daf.html
Subaru, in the modera-era, first used them on the early-90s FWD three-cylinder Justy. I remember test-driving a Justy. Its CVT, to my senses, actually felt less-quirky, and more like a conventional automatic, than some of the ones to follow.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-30-12 at 09:31 PM.
07-30-12, 10:56 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
I keep reading how people say the CVT creates strange noises. Or even one report states it sounds like a rubber band. This is all hogwash and people not knowing what they are stating. The CVT does not make ANY noise at all. It's the engine making the noise, and the CVT has it's influence on that. To say the CVT sounds like a rubber band is false reporting and does no serivce to the public.
07-31-12, 01:25 AM
#40
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Now these new ones supposedly change gears when accelerating hard, so what you "hear" is normal. So it goes to max rpm and then drops by 600rpm or so... like here (this was manual mode):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFde_...yer_detailpage
So I think this is a lot more acceptable than what we experienced initially :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFde_...yer_detailpage
So I think this is a lot more acceptable than what we experienced initially :-)
Hehe that video is from the Philippines
Anyways, in the case of our Corolla Altis, the addition of a 2.0 liter variant (Dual VVTI) along with a better choice of gearbox (from 4-speed Super ECT.......to a 7-speed CVT with manual mode plus paddle shifters) has helped improve my perception of the Corolla Altis.
Indeed, the difference between 4-speed Super ECT automatic and 7-speed CVT with manual mode feels like night and day. This time, the new transmission is not as hungry for RPM (or revolutions) anymore......in order to accelerate to a desired vehicle speed.
07-31-12, 05:11 AM
#41
Pole Position
On a side note, does the system in the GS450h strictly qualify as a CVT?
According to what spywolf posted, this "Toyota HSD" is not really a CVT. No wonder I enjoyed driving it in the new GS450h F-Sport.
According to what spywolf posted, this "Toyota HSD" is not really a CVT. No wonder I enjoyed driving it in the new GS450h F-Sport.
07-31-12, 05:32 AM
#42
Lexus Champion
07-31-12, 07:12 AM
#43
so not only reliability is much better, because CVT has no weak point and is as reliable as best transmissions due to its simplicity but also in the feel, those motors behave like electric turbo's so main problem with the feel, doesnt exist - as soon as you press the pedal you get full thrust of motors and hence you dont feel like nothing is happening (as you do in regular CVT)...
Also, with more power, normal CVT is fine too, as it doesnt have to stay in "fast" mode long time, but then problem is wear on the belts.
I think people will be fine with V6 CVT's, because you cant keep them in "fast" mode a lot because they are fast, so it is hard to experience droning. And for spirited driving, there is manual mode (although in manual mode, i dont see the difference between it and AT, since it is really not CVT anymore)
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Slapshot1
RC F (2015-present)
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05-07-18 07:23 AM
bad, band, continuously, crap, cvt, cvt gearbox, infinite gears, infinite ratio, opinion, rubber, sound, tran, transmission, true, variable
