Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Great incentives or not,YTD July 186K '12 Civics were sold compared to 142K '11 Civics.A 32% increase in sales YTY.
They're out there.
I was about to buy one for my son having had a '08 with 106K trouble free miles but the family talked me into a '13 Elantra.Nicer car but I just don't have the confidence in it as I did with the Civic.
I could care less about hard plastics,interior look etc on a Civic.The reliability is important to me.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

just one more article from Consumer Reports that is all over the place...

There is no reason they should say "steer clear" from the ones that they claim they ride too rough - what if that is what we are looking for in a car - something that is very firmly planted... If everyone wanted the same ride quality, we'd all drive the same car/truck...

The Honda, sure, might not be as good as prior years, but is still a very reliable contender - don't steer away from it, but make sure you test drive it first.

The Jeep is not my favorite vehicle, but I'm sure it fits the bill for many. I find Jeeps to be less than reliable in the steering and suspension department, but that is not covered here at all. You give up a little comfort for a little better off road-ability in comparison to the RAV4 and Forester - again, don't steer clear, just make sure you drive it first.

Prius C - seriously, this is on the list? They drive fine for what they are, just because CR doesn't like it doesn't mean we all shouldn't...

Grand Caravan - definitely agree with reliability issues on these, and I definitely agree the Sienna is nicer all around, but, I'm pretty sure the GC is cheaper... I'll agree on this one, but, there still is a market for it obviously...

Edge - Some will prefer V6 over turbo 4 power, regardless. Some will prefer that stiffer, sportier feeling ride, just make sure you test drive it, don't necessarily avoid it...


Quick note on Microsoft Sync - I find it to work flawlessly when used by itself, its when you add all the rest of the Touch stuff that it gets very unintuitive and a hassle...

tex2670

Just because it's reliable doesn't mean CR should automatically recommend it. There's plenty of other alternatives out there for the Smiths that, overall, including reliability, are good choices. But--the Smiths shouldn't just read a headline and buy a car based on THAT. If the Smiths read the reasons that CR doesn't like the Civic (or any of the other cars on the list), and those reasons just aren't important to them, they will go ahead and buy it anyway--and probably be perfectly happy.

It's not like CR gave it one of their "Don't Buy" warnings.

doublehh03

186k people in the US don't have a subscription to CR I guess.

rld14

The Grand Caravan is a LOT cheaper than a comparably equipped Sienna and they aren't particularly troublesome from where I sit. Company I work for has a large Dodge store, we don't have lots of problems with them.

Seeing as you can get a Grand Caravan with Navi, DVD, Stow N Go, etc for way under $30k... Go price a comparably equipped Sienna. Is it nicer? Yes. Is a 7 series or LS Nicer than a 300? Yes.

NCRon

I am not surprised to find the Honda Civic on the list of cars to avoid. I have refused to buy any Honda for more than 15 years after watching that manufacturer suddenly find that there was nothing wrong with a Honda car that they had tried repeatedly and unsuccessfully to repair. And never mind that the a/c continued to freeze and shut down. Honda simply couldn't admit that it had turned out a product that didn't work properly. They probably feared having to replace it under the Lemon Law. I judge a manufacturer by what it does when things go wrong. When it does nothing or runs and hides, I give it a failing grade. As I always told my staff before I retired, whenever a customer service problem arises three things can happen and two of them are good. Honda chose the one that was bad, meaning it neither met nor exceeded my expectations. Fool me once, shame on you. . . .

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

exactly. CR is a joke, but lets people feel good about their sensible and boring choices.

Prefer their advice for stuff like home appliances, not driving appliances.

LexFather

The fact of the matter is while the Civic isn't terrible like an old Hyundai Excel it simply is average at best. It is not just CR, when the car first debuted those of us who are actually enthusiasts called it from the start, it was not very good. CR's opinion is shared by most auto publications. Pointing to sales means nothing, its a Civic it will still sell since most buyers clog up the fast lane and just want a reliable car. If we go to incentives, the Civic has the most incentives it has ever had in its history, a model who to its credit historically needed the bare minimum. Now there are thousands on the hood and low APRs and all sorts of deals to sell the car b/c without it, the Civic is far less desirable than the competition.

Its not like the competition is not reliable anymore. The features in an Elantra or Focus blow away a Civic. In the Civic what do you get? A literall ricer meter telling you when Vtach kicks in yo. The Si is saddled with the K24 from the Euro Accord/TSX which is not a fun engine, it can't be modded and the Si has been neutered with it.

Yeah 28k bought it last month and for car guys, that is 28k people a month being laughed at. And before the usual suspects put on their capes to try to save the day here is a pic of what I wish the Civic went back to and just add new tech and features and focus on being class leading again instead of just selling on laurels to loyal fans.






Great post and thanks for sharing. I hope you don't get screamed at for sharing it.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Not sure who you are 'actually' referring to, but I don't recall anyone on CL thinking the new civic is great.

I agree and this goes for ALL vehicles. Vehicles sell for many reasons.

Your pre-emptive taunts verge on baiting and aren't necessary, thanks.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Well just about every car brand forum with have people with posts about a vehicle they had an issue with 10,15,20 years ago and they will never buy again like the one posted.
.

FrankReynoldsCPA

I've always been one to bash Dodge/Chrysler, but our 98 T&C was a reliable car. I think ideas of reliability can differ. Did it have some superficial issues or electrical problems? Yes it did. But in the 100k miles we put on it(starting at the 100k that were already on it when we purchased) it never left us stranded. That is more than we could say for the 93 Voyager or the 90 Dynasty we owned. Even the transmission held up. It's still holding up under my cousin's abuse. We gave the car to her a few years back and she is not easy on it. Does 90 mph through the mountains, has flown off the road with it once, and doesn't maintain it. It's got to be well past 200k by now and still runs. Too my knowledge the only major component that's been replaced since we bought the car in 04 is the A/C compressor.

For my summer job this year, I was entrusted to drive two campus-owned Grand Caravans to transport high schoolers around town. Now I only put on maybe 600 miles between the two vans(One is an 08 and the other is an 09) but they seem to be a vast improvement over the last 2 generations. We took the 08 to Los Angeles and back and I had my foot into it the whole way. Never had any issues. These were base model vans with the 3.3 v6 and the 4-speed auto.

I think the fact that we are Lexus drivers has made us expect more out of a car than the average person does. I've never seen as many complaints about interior quality or wind noise, etc on any of the other forums I've visited than on this one(regarding other cars, not Lexus).

tex2670

The thing is, for a vast majority of people, a car purchase is a sensible and boring choice. I would bet you know at least 5 people that don't even know if their car is front, rear or all wheel drive...

LexBob2

Yup, look at the top selling cars overall as well as in most segments and they certainly aren't enthusiast vehicles. Most of the buyers aren't into cars. They want something fairly stylish, dependable and something they are comfortable spending their money on. Boring stuff really.

LexFather

It is truth not baiting. You know I have no issue naming names. . The fact of the matter is there are people that will be willing to defend the brand to no end when the vehicle is simply NOT that good. Using sales is a tactic used by amateurs decades ago. McDonalds then is champ of good burgers. Remember the 1997 Camry? It was just like this Civic, a terribly uninspired redesign that sold like hotcakes. That doesn't mean that is a great car it was not, it was average.

So we should only believe the guys with good stories and not bad ones? Of course every car/brand has issues, we can look at Lexus here and they are #1 in quality. There are tons of threads with issues.

I think we need a sub-forum of Car Chat for enthusiasts then. B/C Bean-counters are being real vocal defending cars for non-enthusiasts and making up every reason against enthusiasts and cars they love and prefer.

The bottom line is CR's opinion is shared by actual car guys and automotive experts which is why Honda is fast-tracking a MMC.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

No sub forum for enthusiasts needed.
.For a kid who needs a dependable car with the parents helping he/she with the payment a Civic is fine.It's not an car enthusiast's choice but a reliable vehicle with it;'s hard plastics etc.Not a car for me but fine for someone who wants a dependable car,it works well..
I preferred the Civic but when with a new Elantra.Nicer in and out but it's still an econobox without a long track record.Took a chance after having a bulletproof 106K '08 Civic.Wait,it did need a starter at 103K miles.
If the CR vehicle was a Sentra instead of a Civic,you wouldn't be very interested in the thread because you don't have the hatred for Nissan like you do with Honda/Acura for whatever reason.
Did a Honda product run over your dog?