Why Is Lexus So Inconsistent Across their Models?
08-13-12, 07:54 PM
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Why Is Lexus So Inconsistent Across their Models?
I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently and I can’t think of a reason as to why Lexus is so inconsistent when it comes to their models. In my opinion, I don’t think there is another brand that is like this, and I offer my examples and thoughts. This is just random musings.
Perhaps it’s best to start by giving an example of what I mean. I recently saw a video review of the new ES and I noticed when they were showing the sunroof panel, the map lights are not LED. I am not sure if it’s part of some package but probably not. My RX has LED map lights even though the normal dome light is halogen. If I recall correctly, the GS, LS, LX, and so on all have LED map lights.
I offer this example not because it is significant that the ES does not have LED map lights. I offer it because it is representative of all these inconsistencies. Is it cost savings? That is the only reason I can think of, but how much money would it have cost to include it? Why a price reduction on the msrp price when you could charge, what, like $10 more for them?
The same goes to the 13 inch nav screen. This could have been an option on all the Lexus vehicles. They redesign an all new ES and they don’t even bother to include it. Why do you go all the trouble to create the 13 inch screen in other models (software, hardware)? And for good reason too, as they tout that you can see both the radio and nav screen at the same time. This is a major problem on my RX at least. So why do you “punish” the other drivers in lower model ranges? This is even more glaring when you consider the ES navigation is almost $1000 more than the option on the GS. If BMW can offer their wide screen option from 3 series to 7 series, then I think Lexus can too.
I bring in the blind spot monitor with cross traffic alert. Are you telling me that when they finished designing the GS with just the BSM and moved forward to design the ES with BSM-CTA, they couldn’t go back to the GS and include the software? It doesn’t look like there are any physical components as the intuitive park assist does the sensing already. Why not include it on the GS and RX which only have the basic BSM?
There are countless more examples but all this points to how Lexus does not create uniformity within their models. If we compare Mercedes, you can get a lot of options you find on the C class as you can on the S class. But even if you disregard pricey options, there is no way to explain on the basic level, why the CT does not having LED license plate lights when every other Lexus does!
Does anybody agree with me? Bueller? Bueller?
Perhaps it’s best to start by giving an example of what I mean. I recently saw a video review of the new ES and I noticed when they were showing the sunroof panel, the map lights are not LED. I am not sure if it’s part of some package but probably not. My RX has LED map lights even though the normal dome light is halogen. If I recall correctly, the GS, LS, LX, and so on all have LED map lights.
I offer this example not because it is significant that the ES does not have LED map lights. I offer it because it is representative of all these inconsistencies. Is it cost savings? That is the only reason I can think of, but how much money would it have cost to include it? Why a price reduction on the msrp price when you could charge, what, like $10 more for them?
The same goes to the 13 inch nav screen. This could have been an option on all the Lexus vehicles. They redesign an all new ES and they don’t even bother to include it. Why do you go all the trouble to create the 13 inch screen in other models (software, hardware)? And for good reason too, as they tout that you can see both the radio and nav screen at the same time. This is a major problem on my RX at least. So why do you “punish” the other drivers in lower model ranges? This is even more glaring when you consider the ES navigation is almost $1000 more than the option on the GS. If BMW can offer their wide screen option from 3 series to 7 series, then I think Lexus can too.
I bring in the blind spot monitor with cross traffic alert. Are you telling me that when they finished designing the GS with just the BSM and moved forward to design the ES with BSM-CTA, they couldn’t go back to the GS and include the software? It doesn’t look like there are any physical components as the intuitive park assist does the sensing already. Why not include it on the GS and RX which only have the basic BSM?
There are countless more examples but all this points to how Lexus does not create uniformity within their models. If we compare Mercedes, you can get a lot of options you find on the C class as you can on the S class. But even if you disregard pricey options, there is no way to explain on the basic level, why the CT does not having LED license plate lights when every other Lexus does!
Does anybody agree with me? Bueller? Bueller?
08-13-12, 08:22 PM
#2
Well the only reason I can think of, If you can get everything in an ES that you can in the GS why charge 10k more msrp? Where is the difference between the 2 cars?There should be big difference between the 2, not only drive train and engines. If IS came with all the option the GS comes with, then I would of settled for an IS over the GS. My big thing was the AWD, If IS came with AWD in 2007-2008 models I would of had an IS. Its these little things that add up to people and sell higher model cars. Ofcourse GS is more luxury then the IS, but there difference in price is also big.
08-13-12, 08:38 PM
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disregard the packaged options for a bit. Im also talking about design aspects as well. Lexus has always been slow to add to existing models until the refresh or model redesign. In 2 short years, we saw every Mercedes become standard with LED DRLs when it is taking Lexus 3 to 4 years (and still the GX doesnt have it).
the Pre-collision system in the C class is the same one you would find in an S class. Not so in a Lexus.
and if it were about paying for a higher up model to get more, then the ES wouldnt be the only vehicle with cross traffic alert. the GS is without this.
the Pre-collision system in the C class is the same one you would find in an S class. Not so in a Lexus.
and if it were about paying for a higher up model to get more, then the ES wouldnt be the only vehicle with cross traffic alert. the GS is without this.
08-13-12, 08:51 PM
#6
I bring in the blind spot monitor with cross traffic alert. Are you telling me that when they finished designing the GS with just the BSM and moved forward to design the ES with BSM-CTA, they couldn’t go back to the GS and include the software? It doesn’t look like there are any physical components as the intuitive park assist does the sensing already. Why not include it on the GS and RX which only have the basic BSM?
08-13-12, 09:52 PM
#7
The one thing that I noticed when I worked for Lexus was that, when compared to other brands, there wasn't nearly as much cross-platform selling as you'd think. Weird as it was, it was uncommon for someone to trade a GS for an ES or LS.
So my thought is that perhaps shoppers aren't paying as much attention as you'd think. One thing that strikes me as weird, you'd think the CTA would be available on the GS. Heck, it's almost pointless on the ES, in the real world I'll bet that a third of the ESs built are regular premium package cars, another 30% are premiums with Navi and 20-25% are Luxury packages with navi. Ultra Luxury package cars loaded to the gills are probably going to be like the 5th Gen ES, very rare beasts.
So my thought is that perhaps shoppers aren't paying as much attention as you'd think. One thing that strikes me as weird, you'd think the CTA would be available on the GS. Heck, it's almost pointless on the ES, in the real world I'll bet that a third of the ESs built are regular premium package cars, another 30% are premiums with Navi and 20-25% are Luxury packages with navi. Ultra Luxury package cars loaded to the gills are probably going to be like the 5th Gen ES, very rare beasts.
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08-13-12, 09:54 PM
#8
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i'm reminded of the following: it's easier to be a critic than an author. 
car makers don't actually start with 'clean sheets of paper' for most models (except something like the LF-A for example). they have previous generations and continuity to consider. parts sharing with other models. cost targets. and probably most importantly, what they think their target customer cares about, AND doesn't care about.
the rx lighting may well be related to highlander lighting for example.
the lack of a 12.3" screen on new es is likely both cost related and that they expect most of their target customers aren't interested, or not at the extra cost, or maybe that they might even be turned off (intimidated) by such a thing!
product development and evolution and "what's in" vs. "what's out" is complex, businesses do the best they can, including subjective choices sometimes, but there is no 'perfect' or perfect consistency.
car makers don't actually start with 'clean sheets of paper' for most models (except something like the LF-A for example). they have previous generations and continuity to consider. parts sharing with other models. cost targets. and probably most importantly, what they think their target customer cares about, AND doesn't care about.
the rx lighting may well be related to highlander lighting for example.
the lack of a 12.3" screen on new es is likely both cost related and that they expect most of their target customers aren't interested, or not at the extra cost, or maybe that they might even be turned off (intimidated) by such a thing!
product development and evolution and "what's in" vs. "what's out" is complex, businesses do the best they can, including subjective choices sometimes, but there is no 'perfect' or perfect consistency.
08-14-12, 02:38 AM
#9
i doubt that on the C-class, you get exactly the same options as in S class... in fact, you probably dont... they might be called the same and have same functions, but rest assured that S class gets higher quality ones.
So is the ES - so you want ES to have same options as LS but costs 30k less? How does that work? I dont see anything inconsistent with ES having lesser quality equipment than GS or LS. It is done on purpose so those that want more, pay more.
Plus you guys whine so much about "fully loaded" prices, that Lexus USA has started filtering options from US models to lower "fully loaded" price... I bet you would be first to complain how ES350 is $60k fully loaded and there is no way you would ever buy ES anymore since you only buy fully loaded and thats it. I have seen it so much around here, it is no wonder they started filtering the options.
So is the ES - so you want ES to have same options as LS but costs 30k less? How does that work? I dont see anything inconsistent with ES having lesser quality equipment than GS or LS. It is done on purpose so those that want more, pay more.
Plus you guys whine so much about "fully loaded" prices, that Lexus USA has started filtering options from US models to lower "fully loaded" price... I bet you would be first to complain how ES350 is $60k fully loaded and there is no way you would ever buy ES anymore since you only buy fully loaded and thats it. I have seen it so much around here, it is no wonder they started filtering the options.
08-14-12, 03:15 AM
#10
Pole Position
Ever since I started following Lexus and it's development I had a feeling that it's a two tiered company.
One tier does GS, LS and recently IS and CT while other tier does ES, RX, GX, LX, HS and other more Toyota related products. There was always a drastic feel to GS and LS compared to ES and RX. Not just in quality or fit and finish but in terms of atmosphere as well, like these cars were manufactured by different companies. GS-LS-IS feel solid while ES-RX-GX feel lightish.. I don't know if I can word my feelings right.
Burns mentioned they are conservative company and that is true to a degree because they were really saving nickles and dimes everywhere. Remember washed out green lit buttons? Nobody can convince me that some designer/engineer didn't want to change that but got a "no, no" from accounting department.
One tier does GS, LS and recently IS and CT while other tier does ES, RX, GX, LX, HS and other more Toyota related products. There was always a drastic feel to GS and LS compared to ES and RX. Not just in quality or fit and finish but in terms of atmosphere as well, like these cars were manufactured by different companies. GS-LS-IS feel solid while ES-RX-GX feel lightish.. I don't know if I can word my feelings right.
Burns mentioned they are conservative company and that is true to a degree because they were really saving nickles and dimes everywhere. Remember washed out green lit buttons? Nobody can convince me that some designer/engineer didn't want to change that but got a "no, no" from accounting department.
08-14-12, 05:05 AM
#11
08-14-12, 05:19 AM
#12
Well the only reason I can think of, If you can get everything in an ES that you can in the GS why charge 10k more msrp? Where is the difference between the 2 cars?There should be big difference between the 2, not only drive train and engines. If IS came with all the option the GS comes with, then I would of settled for an IS over the GS. My big thing was the AWD, If IS came with AWD in 2007-2008 models I would of had an IS. Its these little things that add up to people and sell higher model cars. Ofcourse GS is more luxury then the IS, but there difference in price is also big.
sunroofs are detrimental to performance, and panoramic sunroofs are moreso. Not going to see them in an IS/GS. I wish my IS didnt have a sunroof at all, I dont even use it. Chassis rigidity and roof strength is greatly reduced with a panoramic.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 08-14-12 at 05:26 AM.
08-14-12, 06:33 AM
#14
It seems to me they are inconsistent on an even more fundamental level, that makes no sense to me. I notice because I have 2 different Lexus models, a model year apart. It's a little thing, but it drives me nuts, as I frequently drive both cars. And it is SO easily fixed!
For example, the Homelink buttons in the '10 RX are located in the overhead console. on the '11 IS, they're on the rearview mirror. On both cars, there are buttons on the dash, located by the driver's left knee. On the RX, the buttons are for the gas filler door and the rear hatch (I think), with the hatch button closer to the driver door. On the IS, they are reversed. I can't tell you how many times I have turned off the interior lights in the IS because that where the door opener button is in the RX. Or why I have to go back and close the hatch or trunk when I stop for gas becuse those buttons are reversed. It's frustrating, and I can't figure out why they're different. They are similar in size, and it seems like a matter of which hole you plug them into. If they care.
For example, the Homelink buttons in the '10 RX are located in the overhead console. on the '11 IS, they're on the rearview mirror. On both cars, there are buttons on the dash, located by the driver's left knee. On the RX, the buttons are for the gas filler door and the rear hatch (I think), with the hatch button closer to the driver door. On the IS, they are reversed. I can't tell you how many times I have turned off the interior lights in the IS because that where the door opener button is in the RX. Or why I have to go back and close the hatch or trunk when I stop for gas becuse those buttons are reversed. It's frustrating, and I can't figure out why they're different. They are similar in size, and it seems like a matter of which hole you plug them into. If they care.
Last edited by User 41924; 08-14-12 at 08:03 AM.
08-14-12, 07:53 AM
#15
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I think its b/c they are in a transition period from luxury to sport and the interiors from Japanese to the new more German design.
Used to be you sit in a Lexus and it was all pretty familiar. Now the designs are different until they all get their MMC or FMC. It is maddening sometimes. It takes me awhile to figure things out in a new Lexus than in the past but this is due to them offering far more tech and features. Used to be just jump in, turn on the radio and go.
I recently said in another thread "there is no method to the engine madness".
Thing is most brands are the same way so Lexus is no anomaly.
Used to be you sit in a Lexus and it was all pretty familiar. Now the designs are different until they all get their MMC or FMC. It is maddening sometimes. It takes me awhile to figure things out in a new Lexus than in the past but this is due to them offering far more tech and features. Used to be just jump in, turn on the radio and go.
I recently said in another thread "there is no method to the engine madness".
Thing is most brands are the same way so Lexus is no anomaly.