Cool. Nice to see Toyota modernizing their powertrains a bit. Yes indeed, I think they've been overly focused on hybrids which do give nice fuel efficiency gains, but are costly. Modernizing powertrain designs with the latest technologies can give highly meaningful boosts in performance and fuel efficiency at a mere fraction of the cost of a hybrid powertrain. I know more than a few people that have recently bought cars and were seriously eyeing hybrids, but ultimately went with non-hybrids. They're just that much better than they were before, and far cheaper to buy.

 

Glad to hear that they are somewhat turbo-averse. I prefer larger displacement engines, generally.

 

I've tried many Ecoboost variants and I'm not impressed. The Escape is slower and guzzles more fuel than the CRV & Rav4 V6

And GDI is old news. Toyota has been using direct injection since the 90s on their gasoline vehicles. And everyone remembers the legendary 2JZ-GTE

 

'Turbo' and 'fuel economy' are two words that don't go together.

The whole point of a turbocharger is to burn more fuel to get more power and more black smoke for that matter (common issue with turbocharged cars)

 

Toyota is more of a perfectionist than jump into the bandwagon type.

Look at the 3.5L Camry V6. That motor in it is a GEM. It outright nails the 2.0L Turbo competition in terms of performance, refinement, fuel economy and reliability.

Consider this. Everyone else needs to always go into the next playing field in order to compete with the Japanese. Germans need to turbocharge in order to compete with the Japanese.

 

Lack of Turbocharging could mean V8's will continue longer from Toyota than other makes. Hell I3 BMW i8..

I don't mind Toyota using CVT's, but I'd prefer Lexus stuck with 8-Speed Sequentials.

Also the Hybrids need a real kick in the pants. Bigger motors and batteries. If the Panamera, Q50 Q70, RLX Hybrids are pusing over 360hp, the GS450h needs to be pushing 400hp not 338. If Lexus refuses to add a base engine or more powerful options than the current GS350 and GS450h, they need to compete with not just 300hp I4/V6/I6 engines/turbos, but the new benchmark which is the 400hp range which the S6 and new CTS Vsport range, and soon to be E-Class. Perhaps if there was more to the GS than two powertrains - 1 not worth it's price of admission, the GS would be better recieved.

And I've always felt cheated by Lexus that the RX450h hybrid puts out 295 total system horsepower. Really.. you couldn't use a motor that at least boosted it to 300..

Same could be said of the LS600hL. 5.0L V8 detuned to 377hp (vs IS-F 416hp) and paired with electric motors for 436 total combined system output. A 5-Liter V8 should most def be putting out over 420hp these days. The LS600hL itself should be pushing at miniumum 500hp IMO.

 

The Escape 2.0T is definitely zippier than my old RAV4 V6. Can't comment on fuel mileage but I was never that impressed with my RAV4's.

Direct ignition, not direct injection. In home market vehicles yes, but the 2JZ-GTE was port injected.

Apparently you haven't heard of a turbodiesel?

Smaller engine, same power, far lower frictional losses, lower weight, higher average brake mean effective pressure in the engine making for more efficient combustion of fuel.

Had one in my RAV4 and thought it was a dud. Very disappointing. I'd have thought that with dual VVT-i and a variable intake manifold that they could deliver a broader spread of power, but I thought it was a dog below 4000rpm. I've driven many of the 2.0L turbo engines, and done properly like the Germans do them, I strongly prefer them. Turbo engines deliver power where you need it, not just way up high where you're never at. The worst N/A V6 I've experienced recently was a Ford 3.5L in an Edge. Godawful. Give me a turbo 4-banger any day if that's how they're going to build N/A V6 engines.

??????????????

Not sure what you're even saying here, but okay. Then why is Toyota coming out with a 2.0L direct-injected turbo engine then?

 

about the black smoke - don't know when you last drove a diesel, but they're way beyond black smoke these days, and they don't clatter, etc.

 

I live in Australia and diesels are very popular here. Even the latest 3.0L V6 modern diesels spew black smoke under load. Not a thick cloud but you do notice a trail of smoke. And the best way to see this is from looking at the exhaust tips. Filled with black carbon. This is an issue also with turbo-direct injected petrol cars such as the GTI, BMW 3 series etc etc all have very dirty exhaust tips.

 

You'd have to be the only person who has criticised the performance of the 2GR-FE. Every review reviewing a car fitted with that engine from Camry to the Highlander has praised the performance. Also everyone I know has also praised the performance capabilities of it.
No power before 4000rpm? Hahaa yeah right. I drive the Aurion and it pulls hard as soon as you touch the the accelerator pedal. No lag, no hesitation. I keep it below 2000rpm all time when I don't want to speed. It's also silky smooth unruffled power plant. Very good on fuel to for the size.

 

he probably is :-).

 

whats a mere fraction of the cost? Hybrids in popular cars are only a little bit more expensive. There is no technology that gets what you are saying - better performance and mpg for fraction of the cost.

 

I can see the next Camry having an 8-speed auto, along with everything above that. CVTs make the most sense for Corolla and Yaris type cars, and it's refreshing to see they won't be putting CVTs in everything like Nissan does.

 

You're full of **** IMO. Either that or you were driving around with a major mechanical problem in your Rav-4 the whole time.

Went to Car and Driver's website for some truth:

1. 2006 Toyota Rav4 Limited, v6, AWD. 269hp/246 lb-ft torque 0-60 in 6.3 seconds, 0-100 in 17.0, quarter mile 14.9@94mph The car weighs 3660lbs Fuel economy is rated at 20 city/27 highway, Car and Driver got 16mpg.

2. 2013 Ford Escape Titanium, AWD, 2.0 inline four, turbochaged. 240hp/270 lb-ft torque, 0-60 in 7.0 seconds, 0-100mph in 19.6 seconds, quarter mile 15.3@90mph Curb weight is 3804lbs Fuel economy is rated 21city/28 highway, Car and Driver got 19mpg

Seriously, I have a lot of seat time in a 2012 Camry with the same 2GR-FE engine as in that 2006 Rav4. That car absolutely hauls A@@. It has torque down low, it sings at 5000+rpm at 100mph+, its also one of the most refined, smooth, quietest engines I've ever driven. Plus it gets AWESOME fuel economy. 30mpg driving at 75mph. I don't believe you when you say that engine was gutless at low rpm, or slow in the Rav4, despite that SUV weighing maybe 200-400lbs more than a Camry. It does all that without using direct injection or a turbo. For a FWD application, this is BY FAR my favorite engine out on the market right now, and its been around since 2005. Also I'd never buy a new Rav4, since they dropped this engine and they're now only 4 cylinder.

Long live the big displacement engines IMO. Turbos are great, until you get 100k+ miles on them, where there are so many more parts to fail on them. Wastegate, intercooler, turbo bearings, oil cooler lines, etc. Plus the turbo IS GUARANTEED to fail prematurely if you don't change the oil on time and use the wrong oil(ie non-synthetic). Something a lot of idiot midsize sedan drivers are guilty of.

 

Yet another whopper from you. $4000-6000 more expensive is "only a little bit more expensive"? If that's what you think then I'd say you're out of touch, because you imply getting a hybrid is a no brainer among many other things. It isn't. Diesels typically have about a $2000 price premium vs a regular car with the same level of equipment and also give a substantial increase in mileage vs the regular car at a fraction of the cost of a hybrid. One of the articles in this thread quoted direct injectors at being $128 more, vs a regular engine. Not as big of an efficiency jump, but extremely cost effective assuming the application warrants it.

You can get 40 mpg highway with a nice modern and efficient non-hybrid powertrain, whereas you were getting maybe 30-34 before. Or you can spend a whole ton more to get 50 mpg with a hybrid. Most people are happy being able to get 40 and don't care for the huge price premium of a hybrid.