MM Review: 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek
11-10-12, 01:55 PM
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Lexus Fanatic
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MM Review: 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek
By CL-member request, a review of the 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek.
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-crosstrek/index.html
IN A NUTSHELL: An economical AWD Impreza wagon up on stilts, but with a quirky CVT and too much road noise.
CLOSEST COMPETITORS: Probably no direct competitors currently in the American market, but Subaru's own Forester seems to come closest. The Subaru Impreza Wagon, AWD Toyota Matrix, Mini-Cooper AWD Countryman, and soon-to-be-discontinued AWD Suzuki SX-4 are fairly close, but lack as much ground clearance.
OVERVIEW:
First of all, before I get to the car itself, I want to say I know it's been a while since I last posted a formal review. For a number of reasons, lately, including getting used to my own new car and all its systems, a lower-leg infection (Cellulitis...controlled by antibiotics), other pressing matters, and late-availability of some of my CL-requested reviews, I just haven't done much in that department. Now, I'll slowly play catch-up, and some of those requested models become more available. The Subaru XV Crosstrek, for example, is just now starting to reach East Coast dealerships. So, now that I have the chance...............
In 1993, after a long and moderately successful run of the previous-generation compact GL/Loyale series, Subaru introduced the all-new Impreza, which, in many ways, especially in refinement, was a major improvement. The old GL/Loyale series, though durable as the Rock of GIbraltar, sounded and ran like a threshing-machine, with engine noise/vibration about on a par with a farm tractor. The Impreza managed to tone down and smooth out a significant amount of that NVH, though some of the classic flat-four harshness remained. The 1993-94 Imprezas and Legacys also offered one of my all-time favorite auto paint-colors (medium-purple Amythist).....I dearly wish they had kept it when I bought my own Outback. Early U.S.-market Imprezas were also offered in a choice of FWD/AWD....Subaru did not go exclusively AWD in the American market until a couple of years later.
When Subaru introduced the vastly successful Outback series in 1995 (based on the Legacy Wagon), they also added a smaller Outback Sport version, which was based on the standard Impreza hatchback/wagon. The idea behind the Outback was to raise the suspension, add ground clearance for snow/mud, give it lower-body cladding (or two-tone paint), and make esentially an all-weather vehicle that had a sedan/wagon platform and drove/handled like one, rather than a traditional SUV. The same idea was also implemented in the smaller Outback Sport, though they did not give it quite the same ground clearance as the regular Outback, and it had a much stiffer and more uncomfortable ride. In fact, later models of the Outback Sport (mistakenly, IMO), had essentially the same underbody-clearance as the regular Imprezas, limiting their usefulness in deep-snow conditions. All of the Imprezas and Outback Sport models, though, have been relatively reliable over the years, with the exception of the well-known 1999-2002 2.5L N/A head-gasket issue and some of the turbo WRX models, which tend to be driven quite hard....early WRXs also had clutch/transmission problems. The 2012 Impreza Sport model, except for the optional two-tone paint and heated seats/winter package, had little in common with former Outback Sport models....and, of course, in anticipation of the new XV Crosstrek this fall, Subaru did not offer an Outback Sport for 2012.
All-new for 2013, the XV Crosstrek, after many years, finally solves the former Outback Sport's under-body clearance problem, with its ride-height and ground-clearance virtually the same as the regular Outback series. No sedan version is offered....only the 5-door hatchback. Strongly based on the all-new 2012 non-turbo Impreza last year, it is essentially an Impreza wagon up on stilts....perfect for deep snow/mud/sand. It shares the non-turbo Impreza's new, smaller 2.0L flat-four (now with a timing-chain instead of a belt) and choice of a 5-speed manual or CVT. HP is down to 148, and torque to 145 ft-lbs. Yes, the lack of power is noticeable, even with the efficient CVT.....and the CVT itself is somewhat quirky, but I'll get into that more below. The upside to the power loss and quirky CVT, though, is some of the best car-based AWD gas-mileage ratings in the American market, second only to the somewhat lighter Impreza itself. New Imprezas and Crosstreks can achieve as much as 33-36 EPA Highway MPG, depending on version. Unfortunately, the sharp-looking two-tone paint-packages on the former Outback Sport and Impreza-Sport are gone....too bad, as they, along with other features, were a significant reason for those car's sales. Apparantly the Subaru bean-counters, despite the wishes of many of its customers, caved in to the cheaper all-monotone paint proceess. They also skimped noticeably on sound-insulation, which I'll get into later....but, of course, this was not meant to be a luxury/premium-vehicle, but a reliable, compact, all-weather machine.
For 2013, two basic trim lines of the XV are offered in the American market....Premium and Limited. Premium models start at $21,995 and Limiteds at $24,495....so the pricing, as expected, slightly undercuts that of lower-line regular Legacy-based Outback wagons. Both use the same all-new 2.0L flat-four I described above. Premium models have a choice of a 5-speed manual or CVT.....Limiteds get the CVT. Subaru's excellent Symmetrical AWD, of course, is standard on all versions....as with all other American-market Subaru mdels except the RWD BRS sports-coupe. The type of center-differential used varies with the specific engine/transmission combination.
For the static-review, since it was a fairly cold windy day outside, I chose a Premium Burgundy (Venetian) red CVT model that was sitting in the showroom (I'm getting wimpy in my old age) and later test-drove one with a similiar powertrain (as many buyers are likely to choose the CVT). I listed the price and options for the one sitting inside that I static-reviewed.
MODEL REVIEWED: 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Premium
BASE PRICE: $21,995
OPTIONS:
Continuously Variable (CVT) Transmission: $1000
Power Package 04 With Moonroof: $1000
Rear Cargo Net: $47
Roof Cross Bars: $249
Popular Package I: $571
DESTINATON/FREIGHT: $795 (about average for this size vehicle)
LIST PRICE AS REVIEWED: $25,657
DRIVETRAIN: Symmetrical AWD, 2.0L DOHC horizontal flat-four, 148 HP @ 6200 RPM, Torque 145 Ft-lbs. @ 4200 RPM, CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission).
EPA MILEAGE RATING: 25 City, 33 Highway, 28 Combined
EXTERIOR COLOR: Venetian Red Pearl
INTERIOR: Ivory Cloth
PLUSSES:
Excellent EPA mileage figures for a gas-powered American-market AWD vehicle.
Good (IMO) electric power-steering feel.
Reasonably firm, well-responding brake pedal.
Fairly low body roll for a raised-height vehicle.
Reasonably low wind noise for the class.
Superb overall underhood layout and oil-filter location.
Traditionally good Subaru reliability.
Proven Symmetrical AWD system (Subaru, IMO, still does the best car-based AWD).
Well-done paint job (and some decent paint-colors offered).
Fairly solid, precise-closing doors.
Good, high-quality exterior hardware and trim.
Fairly large, well-shaped exterior side-mirrors.
Side mirrors swivel smoothly and easily.
Solidly-attached, useful lower-body cladding/splash-guards.
Roomy cargo area (by compact standards) with rear seat down.
Fairly comfortable (but firmly-padded) front seats.
Comfortably-padded rear seat cushion.
Smart, well-laid-out, easy-to-use controls.
Well-done steering wheel.
Simple, clear, easy-to-read gauges.
Noticeably better interior-trim-materials than previous Impreza model.
Mostly good interior hardware.
Adequate front headroom for six-footers.
Seat heights ideal for easy entry-exit.
MINUSES:
Marginal engine power for the weight/drag of AWD.
Fairly noisy engine idle and acceleration.
Unimpressive CVT transmission, IMO, needs more work and refinement.
CVT allows too much motorboating.
Overly-jumpy throttle/CVT from rest.
Significant road/tire noise.
Ride comfort OK but a little stiff for my tastes.
Sticky, awkward key/ignition-switch.
Manual hood prop-rod (former version had nice gas struts).
Power level less than ideal for a car of this weight/drag.
On manual-transmission version, a 5-speed manual in a age of 6-speeds.
Odd-looking (IMO) black/silver alloy wheels.
Marginal rear headroom/legroom for six-footers.
No engine-coolant temperature gauge...red/blue idiot lights instead.
OK but so-so stereo sound quality.
Two-tone paint options gone.
Temporary spare tire.
No wood-tone trim option for the interior.
No body-side mouldings for parking-lot protection.
Some manual front-seat adjustments feel flimsy.
Cheap-looking/feeling climate-control rotary-adjustment ***** (appear to be Toyota-derived).
Somewhat cheap-feeling sun-visors (but I've seen worse).
May (?) impact on some Forester sales.
EXTERIOR:
The XV's exterior is essentially that of the Impreza Sport model (minus the optional two-tone body-paint option, which is not offered on the XV) with some useful black cladding added around the lower-body for paint-protection and an optional ($247) roof rack above. Like the larger Outback, it sits several inches higher off the ground than its Impreza/Legacy brothers, which not only makes for easier going through deep snow/sand, but also puts the seat-height at an ideal position of easy entry/exit for many people. One could look at the overall package as either (as I've described it above) a modified Impreza wagon up on stilts or as a smaller, more compact Outback. One other major difference, though, between the XV and regular Impreza/Impreza Sport wagons are the somewhat (IMO) awkward-looking black alloy wheels with the silver-stripe asterisk pattern....not what I would consider done in very good taste. The sheet metal feels reasonably durable and well-done, and the doors open and close with a generally solid precise feel. The paint job is well-done (generally much better than on Imprezas of several years ago). Of the eight total paint colors offered, there are some interesting shades besides the usual funeral-home stuff. My favorite, hands-down, is the Tangerine Orange (a bright but slightly burnt-orange shade) seen in most of the XV photo-ads, which is similiar to that offered on a number of GM cars. A black line of cladding around all around the lower body and wheel wells to help protect the paint from road-debris, though, as with many other new vehicles, the bean-counters managed to delete the (needed) body-side mouldings to protect from parking-lot dings. The roof racks and cross-bar feel durable and well-attached, but lack the clever swing-away feature that the larger Outback wagons have. I'd personally like to see some body-colored or chrome mouldings around the exterior window-frames instead of the somewhat cheap-looking flat-black stuff, but that's just my personal taste, and I won't list it as a complaint. Visibility out the back, with the droop-down rear roofline and small D-shaped rear windows is OK but not as good as that on the larger Outback wagon with its much larger rear windows and taller, more conventional roofline.
UNDERHOOD:
Open up the reasonably solid-feeling hood, and you fumble around with a manual prop-rod instead of the nice twin gas struts on the previous Impreza. There is a nice insulation pad under the hood, though, and the inconvienence of the prop-rod is quickly forgotten by Do-it-Yourselfers once they see the superb layout underneath the hood in the engine compartment itself. The XV shares the new Impreza's all-new 2.0L flat-four, which fits in fine underhood and leaves significant room, on all sides, to reach engine and other underhood components. This new engine (as we'll get to later) may lack some power, but it is a breeze to service. First of all, there is no annoying plastic cover (large or small) on top of the engine to block things or get in the way. Second, the old rubber timing-belt, which had to be periodically replaced, has been replaced with a nice metal chain which rides in an oil-bath, and, given proper oil changes, should last the life of the engine. Third, the oil-filter placement, right on top at the front of the engine-block literally right in front of you, will make those oil-changes easier. In addition, the battery, to the right, is easily accessed and has no annoying cover. All of the dipsticks, filler-caps, and fluid-reservoirs are, of course, a snap. Even the hardware and components at the rear of the compartment, like the ABS computer and plumbing, are easily reached. I can't help but compare a superb, thoughtful underhood design like this to a number of luxury/upmarket vehicles where you open up the hood and can reach almost NOTHING without digging under a bunch of covers and going into tight cracks. Of course, on the other hand, who said that auto-design always made sense?
INTERIOR:
Overall, IMO, the interior, which is virtually the same as that of other new Impreza wagons, is a net plus from that of the previous Impreza model, which, though attractive-looking on the surface, had more hard plastic inside than a Toys-R-Us store. The general quality of the interior trim materials, with a couple of exceptions, has noticeably improved this time. The entire dash is now padded in a semi-soft black material. The door panels now have nice soft-fabric inserts. Even the remaining hard-plastic parts and panels have a nicer-feeling texture to them. The headliner is a thin but soft fabric. The steering wheel, now the same as the one on the larger Legacy/Outback, is nicely-shaped and comfortable to hold. The twin-primary gauges are very well-shaped and easy to read. The basic controls, in the Subaru tradition, are simple and easy to operate, though NAV versions can complicate things a bit. All of the interior hardware, with few exceptions, feels reasonably solid and durable. The cloth front seats (leather on the Limited model) are fairly comfortable and supportive, but have firmer cushion-padding than I would prefer. Headroom up front, with the moonroof assembly, is OK for six-footers, but marginal in the rear. The rear cloth seat has noticeably softer, fuller padding than the front (a reverse from most vehicles), but legroom and headroom in back is not in abundant supply....a six-footer can barely fit. The shift lever, on the console, has a nice fore/aft motion instead of the (IMO) awkward zig-zags used on previous Subarus.....shift-paddles are also provided on the steering wheel for the pre-programmed CVT ratios.
However, on the negative size, there are several noticeable cost-cutting items inside too. The sun visors have a cheap feel and operation to them. As in most other new non-turbo Subarus, cheap red/blue idiot-lights for hot/cold engine temperature take the place of a proper gauge. The manual rake-adjustment hardware for the front seat-back, IMO, has a rather flimsy feel. There is no wood-tone trim option (fake or otherwise) available.....only silver-painted trim strips on the dash. And the black plastic rotary-rings for the climate control ***** seem to be Toyota-sourced....they look and feel about the same as those used in entry-level Toyota/Scion products (in other words, rather unpleasant). The stereo-sound quality, though not the worst I've heard, did rank up with the better ones. But, overall, a nice job on the interior....and, despite a few shortcomings, noticeably more plush and better-feeling than on the last Impreza-generation.
CARGO AREA/TRUNK:
Open up the reasonably solid-feeling rear hatch, and a generally roomy cargo compartment awaits you, especially with the rear seats folded down, though the droop-down rear roofline (a styling concession to sporty looks) does take some of the height out of the available space. As in a number of other Subarus, a nice vinyl-formed cargo-tray exactly fits the size/shape of the cargo bed and keeps the underlying carpet clean and dry. My test-car had the optional ($47) cargo net that helps hold packages and bags in place. A pull-shade assembly keeps prying eyes away from the trunk's contents....it seemed at least fairly durable (some of them nowadays can be like tissue-paper). The cargo area's trim-materials are not luxury-car grade, of course, but are reasonably good for a car of this class. Underneath the trunk's floor, of course, is the usual for today...a temporary spare tire instead of a real one (many Subarus as late as the mid-90s had real ones).
ON THE ROAD:
Even as a long-time Subaru fan, I was generally not impressed with the VX's engine/CVT combination.
Start up the small 2.0L flat-four with a conventional key/ignition-switch (XV Limited models get a nice START/STOP button). I found the small, hard-to-align, sticky-feel key/switch combination little awkward to use at first....it lacks the smooth/slick feel of those on many new cars today. The little flat-four fires up with a fair amount of idle-noise, despite the under-hood insulation.....you know at once that you are not in a Lexus LS460. Under power, the old familiar washing-machine sound of Subaru flat-fours returns. Recent Subaru fours and sixes have been so refined that is was not particularly noticeable, but a fair amount of it returns in this latest Subaru powerplant....perhaps, in part, because of the switch from a quiet timing belt to a more durable but noisier chain. The engine's power level (one of the things compromised, of course for the high EPA mileage rating), was just adequate for light-load driving on level areas, but, IMO, would be marginal in hills or with a load inside. The throttle was quite jumpy starting off from rest (I don't know if this was in the electronic-throttle or CVT programming), and, at more than about half-throttle, the CVT motorboats strongly and jumps the engine RPM up very quickly, assaulting your ears while the car itself lags behind. However, there is little doubt that, by AWD standards, the engine is quite frugal wth gas.....so some people may be willing to overlook its annoynaces.
Two things, though, that I did like about the CVT transmission were its fore/aft shift-lever motion, without the annoying zig-zags of former Subaru shift levers, and the firm, solid, quality feel/motion of the lever itself. Three things, really, if you consider that, even without a bump-lever manual-shift pattern, there are nice solid-feeling shift-paddles on the steering-column for pre-programmed CVT ratios. But the transmission itself, IMO, like the engine, needs some more work and refining. Other recent Subaru CVTs, such as the one on the 4-cylinder Legacy/Outbacks, have operated much better and more refined than this one, so I don't know what happened during its development. The well-proven Symmetrial AWD system, of course, as in other Subarus, operated seamlessly.
I think that real problem is that Subaru, when they finally dumped the old outdated 4-speed automatics, should have gone to a conventional 5 or 6-speed automatic for the 4-cylinder models instead of the CVT (though they DO use a conventional 5-speed auto on the flat-six-cylinder models. But, even there, most competitors today have 6-speeds. In today's traffic, especially in around major cities, I don't usually recommend a manual transmission over the automatic. But, even though I didn't actually test one myself to verify it, it may be worth considering the 5-speed manual as an option for all but the most dense traffic.....and that, of course, would rule out an XV Limited, which has the CVT standard. The CVT does, of course, have the manually-operated pre-programmed ratios with the shift-paddles, but some drivers don't want to fool around with manual-shft automatics either.
Fortunately, The chassis-engineering, IMO, was MUCH better done than the drivetrain. The ride comfort over bumps was slightly stiff for my tastes but generally OK. The tires, on the car I drove, had been sitting in a warm sun (finally, after almost two weeks of cold, cloudy, windy weather), so the PSI was up a couple of pounds, (maybe) stiffening up the ride just a tad. Steering response was not quite as fast as I had expected from driving regular Imprezas, but the electric power steering had a nice firm BMW-like feel (I like firm steering). Cornering was quite good for this type of raised-suspension vehicle, and there was very little of the expected body-roll. Wind-noise was quite well-controlled, though some road/tire noise was heard through the wheel-wells. Still, the wheel-wells seemed somewhat better insulated than the ones on the regular Impreza (which transmit road-noise like a telephone wire), perhaps because the XV is designed for more heavy-duty winter use and exposure to road-salt and gravel. The brake pedal was firm, non-mushy, had little free-play, and had a nice linear response. Also, it seemed to be placed where my my big size-15 circus-clown shoe did not have problems hanging up on the edge of it whan lifting from gas to brake.....a problem I have on a number of vehicles (including, to an extent, even my own Buick Verano).
THE VERDICT:
With the new XV Crosstrek, Subaru (finally) gets around to doing what, IMO, they should have done with the Impreza years ago, and didn't......give at least one version of it a high, Outback/SUV-like ground clearance for deep snow/sand/mud. Yes, Subaru's own Forester has that attribute (and it is built on the previous-generation Impreza platform), but the current-model Forester suffers from cost-cutting, a cheap hard-plastic interior, and from being larger and harder to park than the new XV. I suspect that the XV, despite its unimpressive drivetrain and higher noise-level, will steal away at least some Forester sales. Other than that, there really isn't much in the American market to directly compete with the new XV. It seems to be in a class by itself, though I listed some fairly close competitors, above, at the start of the review.
Still, given its admitted faults, this is certainly a vehicle to consider for a number of people. It offers true adaptability to harsh-winter/deep-snow conditions at a reasonable price. It (should) maintain the traditionally good Subaru reliability. I look for it to have at least fairly good resale-value after depreciation, since there are so few competitors for it....though, with depreciation, of course, only time itself will tell. And, by non-hybrid/gas-powered AWD standards, like the regular Impreza models, it will certainly stretch your gas-dollars, outdoing even some similiar-size FWD cars in the mileage-department. If you don't mind the quirky CVT characteristics and the road/engine-noise, then go for it.
And, as Always..........Happy Car Shopping.
MM
http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-crosstrek/index.html
IN A NUTSHELL: An economical AWD Impreza wagon up on stilts, but with a quirky CVT and too much road noise.
CLOSEST COMPETITORS: Probably no direct competitors currently in the American market, but Subaru's own Forester seems to come closest. The Subaru Impreza Wagon, AWD Toyota Matrix, Mini-Cooper AWD Countryman, and soon-to-be-discontinued AWD Suzuki SX-4 are fairly close, but lack as much ground clearance.
OVERVIEW:
First of all, before I get to the car itself, I want to say I know it's been a while since I last posted a formal review. For a number of reasons, lately, including getting used to my own new car and all its systems, a lower-leg infection (Cellulitis...controlled by antibiotics), other pressing matters, and late-availability of some of my CL-requested reviews, I just haven't done much in that department. Now, I'll slowly play catch-up, and some of those requested models become more available. The Subaru XV Crosstrek, for example, is just now starting to reach East Coast dealerships. So, now that I have the chance...............
In 1993, after a long and moderately successful run of the previous-generation compact GL/Loyale series, Subaru introduced the all-new Impreza, which, in many ways, especially in refinement, was a major improvement. The old GL/Loyale series, though durable as the Rock of GIbraltar, sounded and ran like a threshing-machine, with engine noise/vibration about on a par with a farm tractor. The Impreza managed to tone down and smooth out a significant amount of that NVH, though some of the classic flat-four harshness remained. The 1993-94 Imprezas and Legacys also offered one of my all-time favorite auto paint-colors (medium-purple Amythist).....I dearly wish they had kept it when I bought my own Outback. Early U.S.-market Imprezas were also offered in a choice of FWD/AWD....Subaru did not go exclusively AWD in the American market until a couple of years later.
When Subaru introduced the vastly successful Outback series in 1995 (based on the Legacy Wagon), they also added a smaller Outback Sport version, which was based on the standard Impreza hatchback/wagon. The idea behind the Outback was to raise the suspension, add ground clearance for snow/mud, give it lower-body cladding (or two-tone paint), and make esentially an all-weather vehicle that had a sedan/wagon platform and drove/handled like one, rather than a traditional SUV. The same idea was also implemented in the smaller Outback Sport, though they did not give it quite the same ground clearance as the regular Outback, and it had a much stiffer and more uncomfortable ride. In fact, later models of the Outback Sport (mistakenly, IMO), had essentially the same underbody-clearance as the regular Imprezas, limiting their usefulness in deep-snow conditions. All of the Imprezas and Outback Sport models, though, have been relatively reliable over the years, with the exception of the well-known 1999-2002 2.5L N/A head-gasket issue and some of the turbo WRX models, which tend to be driven quite hard....early WRXs also had clutch/transmission problems. The 2012 Impreza Sport model, except for the optional two-tone paint and heated seats/winter package, had little in common with former Outback Sport models....and, of course, in anticipation of the new XV Crosstrek this fall, Subaru did not offer an Outback Sport for 2012.
All-new for 2013, the XV Crosstrek, after many years, finally solves the former Outback Sport's under-body clearance problem, with its ride-height and ground-clearance virtually the same as the regular Outback series. No sedan version is offered....only the 5-door hatchback. Strongly based on the all-new 2012 non-turbo Impreza last year, it is essentially an Impreza wagon up on stilts....perfect for deep snow/mud/sand. It shares the non-turbo Impreza's new, smaller 2.0L flat-four (now with a timing-chain instead of a belt) and choice of a 5-speed manual or CVT. HP is down to 148, and torque to 145 ft-lbs. Yes, the lack of power is noticeable, even with the efficient CVT.....and the CVT itself is somewhat quirky, but I'll get into that more below. The upside to the power loss and quirky CVT, though, is some of the best car-based AWD gas-mileage ratings in the American market, second only to the somewhat lighter Impreza itself. New Imprezas and Crosstreks can achieve as much as 33-36 EPA Highway MPG, depending on version. Unfortunately, the sharp-looking two-tone paint-packages on the former Outback Sport and Impreza-Sport are gone....too bad, as they, along with other features, were a significant reason for those car's sales. Apparantly the Subaru bean-counters, despite the wishes of many of its customers, caved in to the cheaper all-monotone paint proceess. They also skimped noticeably on sound-insulation, which I'll get into later....but, of course, this was not meant to be a luxury/premium-vehicle, but a reliable, compact, all-weather machine.
For 2013, two basic trim lines of the XV are offered in the American market....Premium and Limited. Premium models start at $21,995 and Limiteds at $24,495....so the pricing, as expected, slightly undercuts that of lower-line regular Legacy-based Outback wagons. Both use the same all-new 2.0L flat-four I described above. Premium models have a choice of a 5-speed manual or CVT.....Limiteds get the CVT. Subaru's excellent Symmetrical AWD, of course, is standard on all versions....as with all other American-market Subaru mdels except the RWD BRS sports-coupe. The type of center-differential used varies with the specific engine/transmission combination.
For the static-review, since it was a fairly cold windy day outside, I chose a Premium Burgundy (Venetian) red CVT model that was sitting in the showroom (I'm getting wimpy in my old age) and later test-drove one with a similiar powertrain (as many buyers are likely to choose the CVT). I listed the price and options for the one sitting inside that I static-reviewed.
MODEL REVIEWED: 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Premium
BASE PRICE: $21,995
OPTIONS:
Continuously Variable (CVT) Transmission: $1000
Power Package 04 With Moonroof: $1000
Rear Cargo Net: $47
Roof Cross Bars: $249
Popular Package I: $571
DESTINATON/FREIGHT: $795 (about average for this size vehicle)
LIST PRICE AS REVIEWED: $25,657
DRIVETRAIN: Symmetrical AWD, 2.0L DOHC horizontal flat-four, 148 HP @ 6200 RPM, Torque 145 Ft-lbs. @ 4200 RPM, CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission).
EPA MILEAGE RATING: 25 City, 33 Highway, 28 Combined
EXTERIOR COLOR: Venetian Red Pearl
INTERIOR: Ivory Cloth
PLUSSES:
Excellent EPA mileage figures for a gas-powered American-market AWD vehicle.
Good (IMO) electric power-steering feel.
Reasonably firm, well-responding brake pedal.
Fairly low body roll for a raised-height vehicle.
Reasonably low wind noise for the class.
Superb overall underhood layout and oil-filter location.
Traditionally good Subaru reliability.
Proven Symmetrical AWD system (Subaru, IMO, still does the best car-based AWD).
Well-done paint job (and some decent paint-colors offered).
Fairly solid, precise-closing doors.
Good, high-quality exterior hardware and trim.
Fairly large, well-shaped exterior side-mirrors.
Side mirrors swivel smoothly and easily.
Solidly-attached, useful lower-body cladding/splash-guards.
Roomy cargo area (by compact standards) with rear seat down.
Fairly comfortable (but firmly-padded) front seats.
Comfortably-padded rear seat cushion.
Smart, well-laid-out, easy-to-use controls.
Well-done steering wheel.
Simple, clear, easy-to-read gauges.
Noticeably better interior-trim-materials than previous Impreza model.
Mostly good interior hardware.
Adequate front headroom for six-footers.
Seat heights ideal for easy entry-exit.
MINUSES:
Marginal engine power for the weight/drag of AWD.
Fairly noisy engine idle and acceleration.
Unimpressive CVT transmission, IMO, needs more work and refinement.
CVT allows too much motorboating.
Overly-jumpy throttle/CVT from rest.
Significant road/tire noise.
Ride comfort OK but a little stiff for my tastes.
Sticky, awkward key/ignition-switch.
Manual hood prop-rod (former version had nice gas struts).
Power level less than ideal for a car of this weight/drag.
On manual-transmission version, a 5-speed manual in a age of 6-speeds.
Odd-looking (IMO) black/silver alloy wheels.
Marginal rear headroom/legroom for six-footers.
No engine-coolant temperature gauge...red/blue idiot lights instead.
OK but so-so stereo sound quality.
Two-tone paint options gone.
Temporary spare tire.
No wood-tone trim option for the interior.
No body-side mouldings for parking-lot protection.
Some manual front-seat adjustments feel flimsy.
Cheap-looking/feeling climate-control rotary-adjustment ***** (appear to be Toyota-derived).
Somewhat cheap-feeling sun-visors (but I've seen worse).
May (?) impact on some Forester sales.
EXTERIOR:
The XV's exterior is essentially that of the Impreza Sport model (minus the optional two-tone body-paint option, which is not offered on the XV) with some useful black cladding added around the lower-body for paint-protection and an optional ($247) roof rack above. Like the larger Outback, it sits several inches higher off the ground than its Impreza/Legacy brothers, which not only makes for easier going through deep snow/sand, but also puts the seat-height at an ideal position of easy entry/exit for many people. One could look at the overall package as either (as I've described it above) a modified Impreza wagon up on stilts or as a smaller, more compact Outback. One other major difference, though, between the XV and regular Impreza/Impreza Sport wagons are the somewhat (IMO) awkward-looking black alloy wheels with the silver-stripe asterisk pattern....not what I would consider done in very good taste. The sheet metal feels reasonably durable and well-done, and the doors open and close with a generally solid precise feel. The paint job is well-done (generally much better than on Imprezas of several years ago). Of the eight total paint colors offered, there are some interesting shades besides the usual funeral-home stuff. My favorite, hands-down, is the Tangerine Orange (a bright but slightly burnt-orange shade) seen in most of the XV photo-ads, which is similiar to that offered on a number of GM cars. A black line of cladding around all around the lower body and wheel wells to help protect the paint from road-debris, though, as with many other new vehicles, the bean-counters managed to delete the (needed) body-side mouldings to protect from parking-lot dings. The roof racks and cross-bar feel durable and well-attached, but lack the clever swing-away feature that the larger Outback wagons have. I'd personally like to see some body-colored or chrome mouldings around the exterior window-frames instead of the somewhat cheap-looking flat-black stuff, but that's just my personal taste, and I won't list it as a complaint. Visibility out the back, with the droop-down rear roofline and small D-shaped rear windows is OK but not as good as that on the larger Outback wagon with its much larger rear windows and taller, more conventional roofline.
UNDERHOOD:
Open up the reasonably solid-feeling hood, and you fumble around with a manual prop-rod instead of the nice twin gas struts on the previous Impreza. There is a nice insulation pad under the hood, though, and the inconvienence of the prop-rod is quickly forgotten by Do-it-Yourselfers once they see the superb layout underneath the hood in the engine compartment itself. The XV shares the new Impreza's all-new 2.0L flat-four, which fits in fine underhood and leaves significant room, on all sides, to reach engine and other underhood components. This new engine (as we'll get to later) may lack some power, but it is a breeze to service. First of all, there is no annoying plastic cover (large or small) on top of the engine to block things or get in the way. Second, the old rubber timing-belt, which had to be periodically replaced, has been replaced with a nice metal chain which rides in an oil-bath, and, given proper oil changes, should last the life of the engine. Third, the oil-filter placement, right on top at the front of the engine-block literally right in front of you, will make those oil-changes easier. In addition, the battery, to the right, is easily accessed and has no annoying cover. All of the dipsticks, filler-caps, and fluid-reservoirs are, of course, a snap. Even the hardware and components at the rear of the compartment, like the ABS computer and plumbing, are easily reached. I can't help but compare a superb, thoughtful underhood design like this to a number of luxury/upmarket vehicles where you open up the hood and can reach almost NOTHING without digging under a bunch of covers and going into tight cracks. Of course, on the other hand, who said that auto-design always made sense?
INTERIOR:
Overall, IMO, the interior, which is virtually the same as that of other new Impreza wagons, is a net plus from that of the previous Impreza model, which, though attractive-looking on the surface, had more hard plastic inside than a Toys-R-Us store. The general quality of the interior trim materials, with a couple of exceptions, has noticeably improved this time. The entire dash is now padded in a semi-soft black material. The door panels now have nice soft-fabric inserts. Even the remaining hard-plastic parts and panels have a nicer-feeling texture to them. The headliner is a thin but soft fabric. The steering wheel, now the same as the one on the larger Legacy/Outback, is nicely-shaped and comfortable to hold. The twin-primary gauges are very well-shaped and easy to read. The basic controls, in the Subaru tradition, are simple and easy to operate, though NAV versions can complicate things a bit. All of the interior hardware, with few exceptions, feels reasonably solid and durable. The cloth front seats (leather on the Limited model) are fairly comfortable and supportive, but have firmer cushion-padding than I would prefer. Headroom up front, with the moonroof assembly, is OK for six-footers, but marginal in the rear. The rear cloth seat has noticeably softer, fuller padding than the front (a reverse from most vehicles), but legroom and headroom in back is not in abundant supply....a six-footer can barely fit. The shift lever, on the console, has a nice fore/aft motion instead of the (IMO) awkward zig-zags used on previous Subarus.....shift-paddles are also provided on the steering wheel for the pre-programmed CVT ratios.
However, on the negative size, there are several noticeable cost-cutting items inside too. The sun visors have a cheap feel and operation to them. As in most other new non-turbo Subarus, cheap red/blue idiot-lights for hot/cold engine temperature take the place of a proper gauge. The manual rake-adjustment hardware for the front seat-back, IMO, has a rather flimsy feel. There is no wood-tone trim option (fake or otherwise) available.....only silver-painted trim strips on the dash. And the black plastic rotary-rings for the climate control ***** seem to be Toyota-sourced....they look and feel about the same as those used in entry-level Toyota/Scion products (in other words, rather unpleasant). The stereo-sound quality, though not the worst I've heard, did rank up with the better ones. But, overall, a nice job on the interior....and, despite a few shortcomings, noticeably more plush and better-feeling than on the last Impreza-generation.
CARGO AREA/TRUNK:
Open up the reasonably solid-feeling rear hatch, and a generally roomy cargo compartment awaits you, especially with the rear seats folded down, though the droop-down rear roofline (a styling concession to sporty looks) does take some of the height out of the available space. As in a number of other Subarus, a nice vinyl-formed cargo-tray exactly fits the size/shape of the cargo bed and keeps the underlying carpet clean and dry. My test-car had the optional ($47) cargo net that helps hold packages and bags in place. A pull-shade assembly keeps prying eyes away from the trunk's contents....it seemed at least fairly durable (some of them nowadays can be like tissue-paper). The cargo area's trim-materials are not luxury-car grade, of course, but are reasonably good for a car of this class. Underneath the trunk's floor, of course, is the usual for today...a temporary spare tire instead of a real one (many Subarus as late as the mid-90s had real ones).
ON THE ROAD:
Even as a long-time Subaru fan, I was generally not impressed with the VX's engine/CVT combination.
Start up the small 2.0L flat-four with a conventional key/ignition-switch (XV Limited models get a nice START/STOP button). I found the small, hard-to-align, sticky-feel key/switch combination little awkward to use at first....it lacks the smooth/slick feel of those on many new cars today. The little flat-four fires up with a fair amount of idle-noise, despite the under-hood insulation.....you know at once that you are not in a Lexus LS460. Under power, the old familiar washing-machine sound of Subaru flat-fours returns. Recent Subaru fours and sixes have been so refined that is was not particularly noticeable, but a fair amount of it returns in this latest Subaru powerplant....perhaps, in part, because of the switch from a quiet timing belt to a more durable but noisier chain. The engine's power level (one of the things compromised, of course for the high EPA mileage rating), was just adequate for light-load driving on level areas, but, IMO, would be marginal in hills or with a load inside. The throttle was quite jumpy starting off from rest (I don't know if this was in the electronic-throttle or CVT programming), and, at more than about half-throttle, the CVT motorboats strongly and jumps the engine RPM up very quickly, assaulting your ears while the car itself lags behind. However, there is little doubt that, by AWD standards, the engine is quite frugal wth gas.....so some people may be willing to overlook its annoynaces.
Two things, though, that I did like about the CVT transmission were its fore/aft shift-lever motion, without the annoying zig-zags of former Subaru shift levers, and the firm, solid, quality feel/motion of the lever itself. Three things, really, if you consider that, even without a bump-lever manual-shift pattern, there are nice solid-feeling shift-paddles on the steering-column for pre-programmed CVT ratios. But the transmission itself, IMO, like the engine, needs some more work and refining. Other recent Subaru CVTs, such as the one on the 4-cylinder Legacy/Outbacks, have operated much better and more refined than this one, so I don't know what happened during its development. The well-proven Symmetrial AWD system, of course, as in other Subarus, operated seamlessly.
I think that real problem is that Subaru, when they finally dumped the old outdated 4-speed automatics, should have gone to a conventional 5 or 6-speed automatic for the 4-cylinder models instead of the CVT (though they DO use a conventional 5-speed auto on the flat-six-cylinder models. But, even there, most competitors today have 6-speeds. In today's traffic, especially in around major cities, I don't usually recommend a manual transmission over the automatic. But, even though I didn't actually test one myself to verify it, it may be worth considering the 5-speed manual as an option for all but the most dense traffic.....and that, of course, would rule out an XV Limited, which has the CVT standard. The CVT does, of course, have the manually-operated pre-programmed ratios with the shift-paddles, but some drivers don't want to fool around with manual-shft automatics either.
Fortunately, The chassis-engineering, IMO, was MUCH better done than the drivetrain. The ride comfort over bumps was slightly stiff for my tastes but generally OK. The tires, on the car I drove, had been sitting in a warm sun (finally, after almost two weeks of cold, cloudy, windy weather), so the PSI was up a couple of pounds, (maybe) stiffening up the ride just a tad. Steering response was not quite as fast as I had expected from driving regular Imprezas, but the electric power steering had a nice firm BMW-like feel (I like firm steering). Cornering was quite good for this type of raised-suspension vehicle, and there was very little of the expected body-roll. Wind-noise was quite well-controlled, though some road/tire noise was heard through the wheel-wells. Still, the wheel-wells seemed somewhat better insulated than the ones on the regular Impreza (which transmit road-noise like a telephone wire), perhaps because the XV is designed for more heavy-duty winter use and exposure to road-salt and gravel. The brake pedal was firm, non-mushy, had little free-play, and had a nice linear response. Also, it seemed to be placed where my my big size-15 circus-clown shoe did not have problems hanging up on the edge of it whan lifting from gas to brake.....a problem I have on a number of vehicles (including, to an extent, even my own Buick Verano).
THE VERDICT:
With the new XV Crosstrek, Subaru (finally) gets around to doing what, IMO, they should have done with the Impreza years ago, and didn't......give at least one version of it a high, Outback/SUV-like ground clearance for deep snow/sand/mud. Yes, Subaru's own Forester has that attribute (and it is built on the previous-generation Impreza platform), but the current-model Forester suffers from cost-cutting, a cheap hard-plastic interior, and from being larger and harder to park than the new XV. I suspect that the XV, despite its unimpressive drivetrain and higher noise-level, will steal away at least some Forester sales. Other than that, there really isn't much in the American market to directly compete with the new XV. It seems to be in a class by itself, though I listed some fairly close competitors, above, at the start of the review.
Still, given its admitted faults, this is certainly a vehicle to consider for a number of people. It offers true adaptability to harsh-winter/deep-snow conditions at a reasonable price. It (should) maintain the traditionally good Subaru reliability. I look for it to have at least fairly good resale-value after depreciation, since there are so few competitors for it....though, with depreciation, of course, only time itself will tell. And, by non-hybrid/gas-powered AWD standards, like the regular Impreza models, it will certainly stretch your gas-dollars, outdoing even some similiar-size FWD cars in the mileage-department. If you don't mind the quirky CVT characteristics and the road/engine-noise, then go for it.
And, as Always..........Happy Car Shopping.
MM
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-10-12 at 02:11 PM.
11-11-12, 09:24 AM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Sure. I know it's been a while since I did one, due to a number of factors. But you yourself post a lot of good auto-press reviews in the meantime.
The low power level and CVT, of course, contribute to the high-MPG rating by AWD standards, but admittedly don't do much for road manners or the fun-to-drive factor.
I know it's been a while since I did one, due to a number of factors. But you yourself post a lot of good auto-press reviews in the meantime.
It's not terrible looking, but I do wish it had more grunt.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-11-12 at 09:44 AM.
11-11-12, 12:49 PM
#5
Sure. I know it's been a while since I did one, due to a number of factors. But you yourself post a lot of good auto-press reviews in the meantime.
The low power level and CVT, of course, contribute to the high-MPG rating by AWD standards, but admittedly don't do much for road manners or the fun-to-drive factor.
I know it's been a while since I did one, due to a number of factors. But you yourself post a lot of good auto-press reviews in the meantime. The low power level and CVT, of course, contribute to the high-MPG rating by AWD standards, but admittedly don't do much for road manners or the fun-to-drive factor.
Yeah, like the Mazda CX-5, a bit underpowered. 20hp would do wonders.
Did you use the paddles at all? Just curious as to how quick they shift. Since its a CVT they probably had "preselected" ratios
11-11-12, 06:02 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
worst 'stance' ever? also bringing ugly to new heights. 
11-11-12, 06:11 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Did you use the paddles at all? Just curious as to how quick they shift. Since its a CVT they probably had "preselected" ratios
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11-11-12, 06:25 PM
#8
I've looked at the CX-5, but haven't test-driven one. Nice vehicle...and the auto-press seems to like its chassis, despite the low power.
Yes, I used the paddles. In the XV, that's the only way you can auto-shift the CVT manually....it doesn't have the usual bump-lever function. The paddles responded with more or less average quickness and crispness, though, of course, with a brand-new unbroken-in engine (as most of my reviews have) I didn't use the paddles under really aggressive conditions or high RPMs.
Yes, I used the paddles. In the XV, that's the only way you can auto-shift the CVT manually....it doesn't have the usual bump-lever function. The paddles responded with more or less average quickness and crispness, though, of course, with a brand-new unbroken-in engine (as most of my reviews have) I didn't use the paddles under really aggressive conditions or high RPMs.
Well hopefully they shift better than the ones in my IS (which is terribly delayed)
11-11-12, 07:21 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Which vehicle are you referrring to? Did he trade the MazdaSpeed3 for an XV or a CX-5? Either one, of course, would probably be a much better vehicle for bad weather...the MS3 is a classic dry-pavement pocket-rocket that would be a handful on slick surfaces.
Remember, though, torque (and the engine's specific torque-curve), not HP, is what primarily determines acceleration, especially at the lower speeds where most typical stop-and-go driving is done. HP comes into play (and is more of a factor) at both higher road and engine-speeds, where it is more-determining of the vehicle's top-speed than its acceleration.
What year is your IS? The older IS300 models (like the yellow one I had) didn't have paddles, but instead used push-buttons imbedded in the front and back of the steering-wheel spokes. You pushed in either button in the two front spokes to downshift (though the system wouldn't allow downshifts from 2-1) and reverse-pushed (towards you) either of the two back-spoke buttons to upshift (if engine temperature was warm enough.....cold starts/warmup sometimes delayed 4th and 5th gears). The same set-up was on the last-generation (2000-2005) Toyota Celica steering wheel.
2Gen IS models, of course, starting in 2006, did away with that rather quirky system for more conventional shift-paddles.
BTW, just for the record, what is (probably) the fastest-reacting shift paddles in any car I've ever test-driven was the 1Gen Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track model. Flick the paddle and, even with moderate or moderately hard driving, the reaction is just like lightning. Its other road-manners and steering were also superb.....like driving a good BMW 3-series. By sport-coupe standards, I had a lot of praise for that car in my review, despite the rather cheap unimpressive interior that wasn't the equal of its brother Hyundai Genesis sedan. And, for what you got, the coupe was a bargain to boot....around 30K loaded, as I reviewed it.
Like I said earlier, 20hp would do wonders
Well hopefully they shift better than the ones in my IS (which is terribly delayed)
2Gen IS models, of course, starting in 2006, did away with that rather quirky system for more conventional shift-paddles.
BTW, just for the record, what is (probably) the fastest-reacting shift paddles in any car I've ever test-driven was the 1Gen Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track model. Flick the paddle and, even with moderate or moderately hard driving, the reaction is just like lightning. Its other road-manners and steering were also superb.....like driving a good BMW 3-series. By sport-coupe standards, I had a lot of praise for that car in my review, despite the rather cheap unimpressive interior that wasn't the equal of its brother Hyundai Genesis sedan. And, for what you got, the coupe was a bargain to boot....around 30K loaded, as I reviewed it.
11-11-12, 07:35 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I posted this image partly because it shows off not only the good ground-clearance but also the suspension-geometry during cornering.
As far as looks go, I certainly agree that it won't win any beauty contests (Impreza-based products rarely do). Glamor, though, is usually not the name of the game for American-market Subarus (maybe the new BRS sport-coupe excepted)....but, instead, getting around safely, securely, and economically in bad weather.
As far as looks go, I certainly agree that it won't win any beauty contests (Impreza-based products rarely do). Glamor, though, is usually not the name of the game for American-market Subarus (maybe the new BRS sport-coupe excepted)....but, instead, getting around safely, securely, and economically in bad weather.
11-11-12, 11:55 PM
#11
Which vehicle are you referrring to? Did he trade the MazdaSpeed3 for an XV or a CX-5? Either one, of course, would probably be a much better vehicle for bad weather...the MS3 is a classic dry-pavement pocket-rocket that would be a handful on slick surfaces.
Remember, though, torque (and the engine's specific torque-curve), not HP, is what primarily determines acceleration, especially at the lower speeds where most typical stop-and-go driving is done. HP comes into play (and is more of a factor) at both higher road and engine-speeds, where it is more-determining of the vehicle's top-speed than its acceleration.
What year is your IS? The older IS300 models (like the yellow one I had) didn't have paddles, but instead used push-buttons imbedded in the front and back of the steering-wheel spokes. You pushed in either button in the two front spokes to downshift (though the system wouldn't allow downshifts from 2-1) and reverse-pushed (towards you) either of the two back-spoke buttons to upshift (if engine temperature was warm enough.....cold starts/warmup sometimes delayed 4th and 5th gears). The same set-up was on the last-generation (2000-2005) Toyota Celica steering wheel.
2Gen IS models, of course, starting in 2006, did away with that rather quirky system for more conventional shift-paddles.
BTW, just for the record, what is (probably) the fastest-reacting shift paddles in any car I've ever test-driven was the 1Gen Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track model. Flick the paddle and, even with moderate or moderately hard driving, the reaction is just like lightning. Its other road-manners and steering were also superb.....like driving a good BMW 3-series. By sport-coupe standards, I had a lot of praise for that car in my review, despite the rather cheap unimpressive interior that wasn't the equal of its brother Hyundai Genesis sedan. And, for what you got, the coupe was a bargain to boot....around 30K loaded, as I reviewed it.
Remember, though, torque (and the engine's specific torque-curve), not HP, is what primarily determines acceleration, especially at the lower speeds where most typical stop-and-go driving is done. HP comes into play (and is more of a factor) at both higher road and engine-speeds, where it is more-determining of the vehicle's top-speed than its acceleration.
What year is your IS? The older IS300 models (like the yellow one I had) didn't have paddles, but instead used push-buttons imbedded in the front and back of the steering-wheel spokes. You pushed in either button in the two front spokes to downshift (though the system wouldn't allow downshifts from 2-1) and reverse-pushed (towards you) either of the two back-spoke buttons to upshift (if engine temperature was warm enough.....cold starts/warmup sometimes delayed 4th and 5th gears). The same set-up was on the last-generation (2000-2005) Toyota Celica steering wheel.
2Gen IS models, of course, starting in 2006, did away with that rather quirky system for more conventional shift-paddles.
BTW, just for the record, what is (probably) the fastest-reacting shift paddles in any car I've ever test-driven was the 1Gen Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track model. Flick the paddle and, even with moderate or moderately hard driving, the reaction is just like lightning. Its other road-manners and steering were also superb.....like driving a good BMW 3-series. By sport-coupe standards, I had a lot of praise for that car in my review, despite the rather cheap unimpressive interior that wasn't the equal of its brother Hyundai Genesis sedan. And, for what you got, the coupe was a bargain to boot....around 30K loaded, as I reviewed it.
Right, lets just agree on more grunt then. Perhaps the torquey little 2.2L diesel from Euro models could remedy the problem.
I have a 2008 with some of the most delayed reaction times for upshifts and downshifts when using the paddles.
11-12-12, 05:43 AM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Congratulations to him. I wish him good luck with it.
A lot of manufacturers (VW excepted) just won't market a significant line of diesels here in the U.S. One has to drive a TDI or Bluetec today to appreciate them. Part of it is that a lot of the American public doesn't realize how good today's diesels are....their minds are still stuck back with the image of the poorly-designed, unreliable diesels and dirty diesel fuel of of 30 years ago.
Right, lets just agree on more grunt then. Perhaps the torquey little 2.2L diesel from Euro models could remedy the problem.
11-12-12, 08:52 AM
#13
Congratulations to him. I wish him good luck with it.
A lot of manufacturers (VW excepted) just won't market a significant line of diesels here in the U.S. One has to drive a TDI or Bluetec today to appreciate them. Part of it is that a lot of the American public doesn't realize how good today's diesels are....their minds are still stuck back with the image of the poorly-designed, unreliable diesels and dirty diesel fuel of of 30 years ago.
A lot of manufacturers (VW excepted) just won't market a significant line of diesels here in the U.S. One has to drive a TDI or Bluetec today to appreciate them. Part of it is that a lot of the American public doesn't realize how good today's diesels are....their minds are still stuck back with the image of the poorly-designed, unreliable diesels and dirty diesel fuel of of 30 years ago.
11-12-12, 02:30 PM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter