Happy Holidays, CL: MM Holiday-Review: 2013 Lexus ES350
11-28-12, 04:12 PM
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Happy Holidays, CL: MM Holiday-Review: 2013 Lexus ES350
The Annual Special Holiday Review for CL......the all-new 2013 Lexus ES350.
http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/
IN A NUTSHELL: The all-new 2013 ES finally gets a hybrid version.....but loses out slightly in the noise department to Buick's Quiet tuning.
OVERVIEW:
Well, we've almost come through another year again, and it's time for the annual Holiday Review......my personal gift to CL (especially to the CAR CHAT forum) during the holiday season. Each year, of course, I do a review on a special high-dollar upmarket/premium vehicle (sometimes even one over 100K, as with the Jaguar XKR convertible a few years ago). This holiday season, I decided to do something a little different, and check out the all-new Lexus ES350 sedan. I picked the new ES not only because of the still-weak economy and unemployment where many people simply don't have the better part of six-figures to spend on a new vehicle, but also because CL is (primarily) a Lexus forum, the ES is consistantly one of Lexus's top-sellers, and many of you already either drive an ES or are interested in one. Indeed, the ES has become a fixture on American roads....one of the top-selling luxury sedans of any make for years. In fact, several of my own personal friends and colleagues own one.......and are generally quite satisfied. When I bought my Buick Verano last summer, both the 2012 and a new 2013 ES were on my consideration list. The 2013 model, of course, was not out yet, but I settled on a Verano for several reasons.
The ES line of sedans goes back almost to the introduction of Lexus itself. Virtually in tandem with the original LS400 was introduced in 1989/90, Lexus, in response to the popularity of Acura's Integra and small-to-mid-sized upmarket competitors from Europe, decided to bolster its American-market lineup with the inclusion of a smaller sedan...the ES250. Essentially nothing but a rebadged Camry sedan with slightly more standard equipment (and making almost no attempt at all to conceal that fact) the original ES250 fooled virtually no one.....and simply bombed out in the marketplace. Its sales never even remotely approached those of the popular LS400...and it was fairly quickly withdrawn from the American market.
But Lexus planners learned their lessons quickly. The second-generation ES300, which replaced the original 250 in 1991, was a far better product....and, though still using the Camry's basic FWD platform, distanced itself from the Camry much more this time, both in overall looks and trim-quality. It also, like the Camry, developed not only a reputation for refinement but also bulletproof reliability. One ***** in the armor of that reliability, though, was the well-known and highly-publicized tendency of some versions of the 3.0L V6 (also used by other Toyota/Lexus vehicles) to gel the oil and gum up the engine if the oil was not changed at frequent intervals. As long as the oil was changed at reasonable intervals/mileage, usually there was no problem, but the engineers had designed the 3.0 with relatively small oil-passages to make the oil run hot and help get engine temperature up quickly for low-emissions and better mileage. Unfortunately, this engine was often NOT forgiving of lazy or careless owners who simply let their oil go too long. I saw a number of those famously gelled-up engines myself in the Toyota/Lexus service bays (usually getting replaced with brand-new engines), and they were not pretty sights.
Each succeeding version of the ES, IMO, improved in overall refinement levels, though I thought that some of the best-built ones, for overall solidness, were the third-generation models of the mid-late 1990s. They had been developed in conjunction with the 1992-1996 Camrys, which I thought were the best overall Camrys Toyota ever did. After that, overall build-quality, though still good, began to be affected, and sheet metal and hardware started to get noticeably thinner and of lighter weight. Of all the former ES models, though, my favorite ones to drive, hands-down, were the fourth-generation 2001-2005 models, which were not quite as solidly-built as those of the mid-late 90s, but had beautiful wood-trim all throughout the cabin, silky-smooth V6s, a magic-carpet ride, coddle-seats, and library-quietness. They were esentially mini-LS430s in their driving-manners, though some owners complained about hesitating low-speed electronic Drive-by-Wire throttles and occasionally quirky transmission shifts. The factory issued a TSB electronic-program update for these components that never totally solved the problem. Except for a few of those electronic quirks, the 4th-Gen ES300/330 was, IMO, truly one of Lexus's masterpieces (I almost wish I had bought one when they were still available new, instead of the IS300 I had). I will truly miss them.
The fifth-generation ES350, in comparison to the superb ES330, was, at first, IMO, a major letdown (I talked a lot about that in CAR CHAT). There was notable cost-cutting in the interior with trim/hardware, lighter/thinner plastic and sheet metal, creaks and rattles in the dash, and, in an unnecessary attempt to make the handling sharper, a mild stiffening of the suspension and a change to lower-profile 55-series tires (from 60s). I say "unnecessary" because there were (and are) planty of purpose-designed sports-sedans on the road (even in Lexus' own line-up)...one did not need to try and make the ES a semi-sport sedan. Those suspension/tire changes, IMO, noticeably deteriorated one of the previous model's best features...its magic-carpet ride, though thankfully, the quiet cabin and low-noise level still remained. As with the original ES250, though, the Lexus designers moved to address at least some of these shortcomings. Later-production models of the 5th-generation ES, starting in 2010 (without a total redesign) had more wood and better-quality trim inside, tighter construction, and fewer squeaks and rattles. Those improvements remained with the 2011-2012 models, though the factory still insisted on keeping the lower-profile 55-series tires. But the firmer ride, though, with the same 55's, seemed to mellow just a little.....perhaps the suspension also got a small tweaking in response to the customer complaints. In contrast to the disappointing 2006-2009 models, I liked the improved 2010-2012 versions enough to at least consider one as a personal daily-driver.
Which now brings us to the theme of this review.....the all-new 6th-generation 2013 model. For 2013, two levels of ES trim are offered....base and, for the first time, a hybrid. Prices start at $36,100 for regular ES models and $38,850 for the Hybrid (actually not that bad a premium for an upmarket-level hybrid, which can often run much more than regular gas-models). Base gas-powered versions use the obiquitous Toyota/Lexus 3.5L V6, tuned to 268 HP and 247 ft-lbs. of torque for the new ES, and a sport-shift 6-speed automatic transmission. The Hybrid uses essentially the same drivetrain as the popular Camry hybrid...the transversely-mounted 2.5L four and permanent-magnet electric-motor Toyota Hybrid-Drive, with 200 total-system HP (no published torque or individual-HP figures), and a CVT (continously-variable) automatic transmission.
As of now, there are a fair number of new ES models in stock at local D.C.-area Lexus stores, in both regular and hybrid versions. For the actual review, I chose a regular ES350, with a fair number of options but without the Ultra-Lux package, as I felt that that configuration would be representative of the way a lot of new ES models would actually be purchased. I noticed that models with the Ultra-Lux package, among other things, had an extra, separate rear sunroof, so I check-tested the back seat of that version to see how the rear sunroof would affect headroom (significantly, as I'll explain below).
The new ES, overall, was pretty much what I had expected, but also gave me a few surprises, both pro and con. For the details, read on.
MODEL REVIEWED: 2013 Lexus ES350
BASE PRICE: $36,100
OPTIONS:
Blind-Spot Monitor: $500
HID Headlights: $515
One-touch Power Trunk: $400
Wood/Leather/Heated Steering Wheel: $480
Inituitive Parking Assist: $500
Rain-Sensing Wipers with De-Icer: $155
Luxury Package: $1370
Power Rear Sunshade: $210
8-Speaker Display/Audio/CD: $740
Accessory Trunk Package: $242
DESTINATION/FREIGHT: $895 (about average for this type of car)
LIST PRICE AS REVIEWED: $42,107
EXTERIOR COLOR: Cerculean Blue Metallic (a really nice blue-silver hue)
INTERIOR: Ivory Leather
DRIVETRAIN: FWD, Transversely-mounted 3.5L V6, 268 HP @ 6200 RPM, 248 Ft-Lbs. of Torque @ 4700 RPM,
6-speed sport-shift automatic transmission.
EPA MILEAGE RATING: 21 City, 24 Combined, 31 Highway
PLUSSES:
Smooth, refined, torquey V6....especially in Sport Mode.
Silky-smooth, quiet 6-speed automatic sport-shift transmission.
Low road/wind-noise level on most road surfaces.
Fairly good (but not quick) steering response.
Acceptably smooth ride on most surfaces with 55-series tires.
(might not be the case with the optional 18" 45s)
Excellent brake pedal location and response.
Good underhood layout by often-restrictive luxury-car standards.
Easily-accessed battery.
Well-done, well-applied exterior trim/hardare.
The usual Lexus-grade slick paint-job.
Some nice classy exterior paint-colors offered.
Smooth, slick-swiveling dual side mirrors also have integrated turn-signals.
Door-closings a little light-feeling on the outside, but strong and solid-feeling from inside. (Go Figure?)
Well-designed, easy-to-use controls/gauges....with a few exceptions.
Comfortable, form-fitting front-seat headreats.
Generally comfortable front seats.
Seat leather a nice grade/feel.
Rear-seat padding a little more comfortable than average.
Very nice sun-visor/headliner trim-material.
Adequate (but just barely) front seat headroom with sunroof for tall persons.
Adequate rear headroom without rear-sunroof.
Good legroom for most tall persons, front and rear.
Nicely-applied interior wood-trim...but could be more realistic-looking.
Classy, Infiniti-style chrome-faced dash clock.
Nice stereo sound quality.
Classy, slick-feeling polished-wood/leather steering wheel.
First-Kid kit in trunk typical of many Lexus products.
MINUSES:
Hybrid powertrain doesn't have much to distinguish it from the less-expensive Camry Hybrid powertrain.
OK but fairly slow steering response.
Some body-lean on sharp steering-input...but not excessive.
Large plastic engine-cover impedes some accessability (but the rest of the underhood-accessability is fine).
Rear-sunroof on Ultra-Lux package impedes some rear headoom.
Cheap-looking/feeling shiny black-plastic console-trim.
Annoying (IMO) zig-zag shift-lever action.
Interior door-panel trim (except for the nicely-applied wood-strips) not very impressive for a car of this class.
Poorly-designed, stiff-to-operate volume-adjustment **** for stereo (but can be done with steering-wheel tab).
Smallish glove-box not very roomy inside.
Very complex, icon-laden stereo/center-dash screen and ****-adjuster takes some getting used to.
Confusing, look-alike hood/trunk/gas-flap-release buttons all together under dash.
No body-side mouldings for parking-lot protection (the previous-model ES had them).
Temporary spare tire in the trunk.
Sometimes hard-to-navigate Lexus web-site (even the salespeople don't like it).
EXTERIOR:
The exterior and basic body-styling of the all-new 6th-generation ES, in a number of ways, is not really that much different from the outgoing 5th-generation model. Apparantly, the Lexus designers felt that if it sells well (which, of course, the ES does), then why mess with it? There are a few noticeable changes, though....the most obvious one being the addition/substitution of the inverse-trapezoid grille design that we have seen on other new Lexus models. In general, though, there is no mistaking this new design for what it is (an ES). Still, though, it was difficult for me at first, from a distance, to differentiate the new ES from the new GS, as the GS is also similiar in both interior and exterior styling. In fact, when I first got to the dealership and headed for what I thought was a row of new ES models, they actually turned out to be new GS. One of the Lexus reps there had to point out where the new ES models were actually parked.
Well, so much for that.....on with the review. The exterior body-sheet metal wasn't tank-grade, but acceptably solid-feeling by today's standards. The twin side-mirror housings were generally well-shaped, had an excellent slick/smooth feel to their swiveling/locking, and had nice integrated turn-signal indicators. The paint-job was (as expected) the usual slick Lexus-grade, and some nice classy colors are offered this year. They aren't sports-car bright, but not all the usual funeral-home shades either. I particularly liked the Matador Red, light blue-silver Cerculean Blue, dark brownish-purple Fire Agate.......and, of course, the always-classy Pearl (Starfire) White. I'm not a terribly big fan of the new Lexus inverse-trapezoid grilles they are using now, but IMO they aren't as bad as some others I've seen....like the Acura Parrot-beak or the big oversided Audi grilles. It seems like many automakers today are trying to distinguish their products by the grilles alone. As with most Lexus products, all of the exterior trim and hardware was well-done, well-applied, and slick-feeling. But (shame, shame)......the nice body-side moldings that helped protect previous ES models from parking-lot dings have been quietly dropped; presumably in the name of cost-cutting.
UNDERHOOD:
Open the fairly solid-feeling hood (the inside hood-release is confusing, but I'll get to that later), and two nice gas struts hold up the hood (as they should, IMO, in all cars). There is a nice insulation-pad under the hood (after all, most Lexus products are designed to have quiet engines). Underhood, I was expecting the usual nonsense in today's luxury/upmarket cars of hiding virtually everything under covers or panels, but, happily, that wasn't the case with the new ES. The transversely-mounted 3.5L V6 did in fact have a large plastic cover that blocked a lot of top-access, but otherwise fit in well enough to have at least some access around the sides to reach some components. The battery, close up front on the right, was exposed, uncovered, with the terminals very easy to reach, unlike in many upmarket cars. Most of the other parts/hardware underhood were at least reasonably easy to access, and all of the filler-caps and fluid-reserviors are easily-accessed. I thought I saw a (typically) yellow-marked oil-dipstick in there, but the Lexus-reps said that the engine has the same computer-monitoring of the oil system that many other upmarket cars do today.
INTERIOR:
Like the new exterior, the new ES interior is also, in styling, somewhat reminiscent of that in the new GS models. The super-slick leather/polished-wood steering wheel has to be seen (and felt) to be believed. It doesn't just have the wood on the top-arc, like many other wheels, but on some of the lower parts as well. Of course, this beautifully-done and heated wheel is not standard.....you must cough up another $480, but, IMO, it's probably money well-spent. The ceiling and sun-visors are also done in a nice, soft felt-fabric material (sun-visor-material is where a lot of manufacturers economize on nowadays). The seat-leather feels soft and of a nice grade, and the front seats are generally comfortable. The front-headrests are excellent, and curve naturally to the shape of the back of your head/neck. They feel very comfortable, even when they are pressing against you....an asset, of course, for anti-whiplash safety in rear-end impacts. Volvo and Mercedes (the perennial crash-safety leaders), could, IMO, learn from this design. The gauge-cluster, of course, has the usual Lexus electroluminescent back-lighting to it, and is simple and easy to read. Most (but not all) of the controls are simple and easy to use. The wood-trim strips on the dash and door panels are well-fit and have a slick feel to them, though, IMO, the wood-pattern on my particular car's trim-level could look a little more realistic. The stereo sound has a good quality to it, though you could tell it was not a top-level Mark Levinson unit, which comes with the Ultra-Lux package. In the middle of the dash sits a nice classy jeweled-chrome Infiniti-style analog circular clock (I wonder if Lexus pays Infiniti royalties for the production-rights to a design like that)? The back seats have somewhat nicer-padding on them than average, and, unlike the somewhat light unsubstantial sound you get when standing outside, when you close the doors on the inside, you get a solid, satisfying thunk. Legroom, front and rear, even with the front seat pushed back a little, seems good (or at least OK) for all but NBA guys.
So, are there any flies in the interior onitment? Yes, a few (I haven't seen a perfect auto-interior yet). The front headroom, under the sunroof, is OK for taller people only if you substantially drop the front-seat cushion down close to the floor. In back, without the optional rear-sunroof (which is part of the Ultra-Nav package), headroom is marginal for 6' 2" guys my size, and inadquate by about an inch or so with the rear sunroof. The glovebox has a lower-left-corner release-button that is hard to see at a glance, and is rather small inside. Under the left-front dash, near the foot-operated parking brake, are three confusing identical buttons, right next to each other, for the hood, trunk, and gas-flap releases. I'd love to know who in the design-department came up with that idea....I think a lot of owners, until they get used to it, are going to have to get out of the car to close things they unintendedly opened. The stereo-screen and adjuster system are quite complex to use, and the screen probably has more icons/menus on it than a PC Bill Gates himself would use. Except for the nicely-fitted wood strips, the rest of the interior door-panel trim, IMO, is hard, cheap-feeling and, IMO, somewhat out of place in a car of this class. The on/off/volume **** for the stereo, IMO, is poorly-designed ...it not only has a strange feel to it, but requires a lot of wobbly twirl-energy from your fingertips to rotate it...fortunately, the volume-functon can be adjusted with a steering-wheel tab-control. And Toyota/Lexus still persists with those (IMO) annoying zig-zag shift levers at a time when a number of other manufacturers are finally getting rid of them from customer-complaints (one of those complaints, of course, being mine).
CARGO COMPARTMENT/TRUNK:
Open up the trunk (a one-touch power option, which my car had, is $400) and, as expected, one encounters not only a fairly roomy cargo area by mid-sized sedan standards, but also the usual upmarket-grade Lexus materials inside. Nice attractive soft-feel black carpeting covers the floor and walls. There is the (usual) Lexus First-Aid kit inside. My particular car also had the optional ($242) Accessory Trunk Package, which consisted of several small added convenience features. Under the immediate trunk floor, above the spare, is a nice big foam-shaped container that contains all of the jacking, wheel-change, and other hardware. In general, nothing in the trunk looks or feels cheap until you get to the Bean-Count-Special temporary spare tire under the floor....a feature, of course, found on all too many of today's vehicles.
ON THE ROAD:
Start up the ubiquitous Toyota/Lexus 3.5L V6 with a nice engine START/STOP button (expected, of course, in a car of this class), and the engine rewards you with (what else?)....a Lexus-smooth and quiet idle. On the road, as expected, it remains smooth/quiet and refined, with surprising torque-response with lower speed acceleration. There is a big rotary switch on the console that programs the throttle-response from ECO/NORMAL/SPORT...I noticed some minor but not huge differences between the settings. A small blue tube-indicator in the gauge-panel jumps left/right with throttle-pressure to help you learn to keep a light foot on the pedal if you want good gas mileage. If you want power, though, this engine will give it, particularly in the SPORT setting (the official 248 ft-lbs. of torque, IMO, in a car this size, responds more like 280-300). Still, don't go around looking for a Mustang GT or Camaro SS on Friday night. The 6-speed automatic sport-shift transmission, apart from the aforementioned zig-zag shifter, is generally pleasant, being, like most Lexus transmissions, smooth/quiet and refined. There are no shift-paddles on the steering-column, but, once past the lever zig-zags and into the manual-shift-mode, a simple bump of the lever fore/aft gives you the gear you want smoothly and resonably quickly.
The chassis, by my standards, is reasonably well-designed and has decent driving-characteristics, though it is obvious that the ES wasn't (nor, IMO, should it be) designed to go head-to-head with the BMW 3-series or Infiniti G/M series (or any other true sport-sedan). The standard 55-series tires give a reasonably smooth ride over bumps, but not as smooth, of course, as the on the superb 4th-generation ES and its 60-series rubber....my all-time favorite ES. I did not sample the Ultra-Lux Package model, with its 18" 45-series tires, on the road, but it can probably be expected to be somewhat harsher than the 55's. Steering response, though safe and adequate, is a little on the slow side, and there is some mild, but not excessive, body roll on sharp corners and/or marked steering-input. Wind-noise and road-noise are well-controlled and quite low on most road surfaces, but....(and I'm being totally objective here, NOT just saying this because I myself own a new Verano)...the new ES's road/wind noise-level often can't equal that of Buick's new Quiet-Tuning, particularly on the tomb-quiet Verano. The Verano, having a 2.4L Ecotec four-cylinder, does sometime have a little more engine-noise than the Lexus 3.5L V6, but, most of the time, actually (to my ears) betters the ES in noise-control in all but the engine. To compensate, ES models with the 55-series tires generally ride smoother than the Verano, whose 45-series tires can bump sharply over some rough road irregularities.
(Lexus-fans......please don't toss any stones at me for saying this without first sampling the two cars for yourselves. Then, if you still disagree, then you can toss a pebble or two my way).
The new ES's brake pedal is excellent in several ways. It's superbly-located, far enough away from the gas pedal and low enough that my big clown-shoe size-15 can easily move on or off the gas pedal without brushing of getting hung-up on the edge of the brake....a problem in some vehicles (yes, even in my Verano, where I have to be careful). There is a nice firm feel to the ES brake-pedal, with little sponginess or free play, and it has almost a German feel to the response. Of course, the new Hybrid ES model, with its regenerative-braking and electric-motor hookup, may not (?) have the same feel to the pedal. Hybrids and regenerative brake systems sometimes have a quirky or grabby feel to the pedal (I did not sample a new ES hybrid, so I can't say).
THE VERDICT:
Well, overall, the new 2013 ES, IMO is a worthy successor to the previous version, though, considering everything and being totally objective on my part, I still like the superb 4th-generation ES300/330 models the best....those built from 2001-2006. But the new ES, of course, adds a long-overdue Hybrid version, though Lexus could have come up with something a little different for it than the ubiquitous Camry-Hybrid system. Still, I guess I can't really criticize the designers for that, as new hybrid-systems can cost a ton of money to develop. Even in a company of Toyota/Lexus's vast size, development-budget dollars aren't limitless, and sometimes you may just have use your company's standard parts-bin. Given what they actually had to work with, the designers have done a good job on the new ES. This one felt solid and securely-built from the start, without the annoying dash creaks/rattles and loose-construction the last all-new ES model had when it was first introduced. The super-slick steering wheel is something to die for...even at $480. The ES has consistantly had a better-than-average reliability rate, and the new model will probably carry on that tradition. Resale values have traditionally been good.
And, as mentioned, some things, IMO, still need improvement. The stereo-volume ****, triple-identical gas/hood/trunk releases, rear headroom on the Ultra-Lux package, zig-zag shift-lever, and cheapish console/door-panel trim all need improvement or a redesign. The ES is not a noisy car by any means, and has a long-standing reputaton for being hushed, but it is (now) getting some serious competition from Buick's Quiet-Tuning on both the LaCrosse and Verano. (I can't totally recommend the LaCrosse, though, because I don't think its interior is as well-assembled as the Verano's, nor is much of the hardware as solid). But, looking at the new ES for the package for what it actually is (and for what the version I reviewed costs)...you can be sure that it is not a bad way at all to spend 40K. Perhaps that is why so many new-car buyers each year take one home.
And, as always, Happy (Holiday) car-shopping.
MM
http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/
IN A NUTSHELL: The all-new 2013 ES finally gets a hybrid version.....but loses out slightly in the noise department to Buick's Quiet tuning.
OVERVIEW:
Well, we've almost come through another year again, and it's time for the annual Holiday Review......my personal gift to CL (especially to the CAR CHAT forum) during the holiday season. Each year, of course, I do a review on a special high-dollar upmarket/premium vehicle (sometimes even one over 100K, as with the Jaguar XKR convertible a few years ago). This holiday season, I decided to do something a little different, and check out the all-new Lexus ES350 sedan. I picked the new ES not only because of the still-weak economy and unemployment where many people simply don't have the better part of six-figures to spend on a new vehicle, but also because CL is (primarily) a Lexus forum, the ES is consistantly one of Lexus's top-sellers, and many of you already either drive an ES or are interested in one. Indeed, the ES has become a fixture on American roads....one of the top-selling luxury sedans of any make for years. In fact, several of my own personal friends and colleagues own one.......and are generally quite satisfied. When I bought my Buick Verano last summer, both the 2012 and a new 2013 ES were on my consideration list. The 2013 model, of course, was not out yet, but I settled on a Verano for several reasons.
The ES line of sedans goes back almost to the introduction of Lexus itself. Virtually in tandem with the original LS400 was introduced in 1989/90, Lexus, in response to the popularity of Acura's Integra and small-to-mid-sized upmarket competitors from Europe, decided to bolster its American-market lineup with the inclusion of a smaller sedan...the ES250. Essentially nothing but a rebadged Camry sedan with slightly more standard equipment (and making almost no attempt at all to conceal that fact) the original ES250 fooled virtually no one.....and simply bombed out in the marketplace. Its sales never even remotely approached those of the popular LS400...and it was fairly quickly withdrawn from the American market.
But Lexus planners learned their lessons quickly. The second-generation ES300, which replaced the original 250 in 1991, was a far better product....and, though still using the Camry's basic FWD platform, distanced itself from the Camry much more this time, both in overall looks and trim-quality. It also, like the Camry, developed not only a reputation for refinement but also bulletproof reliability. One ***** in the armor of that reliability, though, was the well-known and highly-publicized tendency of some versions of the 3.0L V6 (also used by other Toyota/Lexus vehicles) to gel the oil and gum up the engine if the oil was not changed at frequent intervals. As long as the oil was changed at reasonable intervals/mileage, usually there was no problem, but the engineers had designed the 3.0 with relatively small oil-passages to make the oil run hot and help get engine temperature up quickly for low-emissions and better mileage. Unfortunately, this engine was often NOT forgiving of lazy or careless owners who simply let their oil go too long. I saw a number of those famously gelled-up engines myself in the Toyota/Lexus service bays (usually getting replaced with brand-new engines), and they were not pretty sights.
Each succeeding version of the ES, IMO, improved in overall refinement levels, though I thought that some of the best-built ones, for overall solidness, were the third-generation models of the mid-late 1990s. They had been developed in conjunction with the 1992-1996 Camrys, which I thought were the best overall Camrys Toyota ever did. After that, overall build-quality, though still good, began to be affected, and sheet metal and hardware started to get noticeably thinner and of lighter weight. Of all the former ES models, though, my favorite ones to drive, hands-down, were the fourth-generation 2001-2005 models, which were not quite as solidly-built as those of the mid-late 90s, but had beautiful wood-trim all throughout the cabin, silky-smooth V6s, a magic-carpet ride, coddle-seats, and library-quietness. They were esentially mini-LS430s in their driving-manners, though some owners complained about hesitating low-speed electronic Drive-by-Wire throttles and occasionally quirky transmission shifts. The factory issued a TSB electronic-program update for these components that never totally solved the problem. Except for a few of those electronic quirks, the 4th-Gen ES300/330 was, IMO, truly one of Lexus's masterpieces (I almost wish I had bought one when they were still available new, instead of the IS300 I had). I will truly miss them.
The fifth-generation ES350, in comparison to the superb ES330, was, at first, IMO, a major letdown (I talked a lot about that in CAR CHAT). There was notable cost-cutting in the interior with trim/hardware, lighter/thinner plastic and sheet metal, creaks and rattles in the dash, and, in an unnecessary attempt to make the handling sharper, a mild stiffening of the suspension and a change to lower-profile 55-series tires (from 60s). I say "unnecessary" because there were (and are) planty of purpose-designed sports-sedans on the road (even in Lexus' own line-up)...one did not need to try and make the ES a semi-sport sedan. Those suspension/tire changes, IMO, noticeably deteriorated one of the previous model's best features...its magic-carpet ride, though thankfully, the quiet cabin and low-noise level still remained. As with the original ES250, though, the Lexus designers moved to address at least some of these shortcomings. Later-production models of the 5th-generation ES, starting in 2010 (without a total redesign) had more wood and better-quality trim inside, tighter construction, and fewer squeaks and rattles. Those improvements remained with the 2011-2012 models, though the factory still insisted on keeping the lower-profile 55-series tires. But the firmer ride, though, with the same 55's, seemed to mellow just a little.....perhaps the suspension also got a small tweaking in response to the customer complaints. In contrast to the disappointing 2006-2009 models, I liked the improved 2010-2012 versions enough to at least consider one as a personal daily-driver.
Which now brings us to the theme of this review.....the all-new 6th-generation 2013 model. For 2013, two levels of ES trim are offered....base and, for the first time, a hybrid. Prices start at $36,100 for regular ES models and $38,850 for the Hybrid (actually not that bad a premium for an upmarket-level hybrid, which can often run much more than regular gas-models). Base gas-powered versions use the obiquitous Toyota/Lexus 3.5L V6, tuned to 268 HP and 247 ft-lbs. of torque for the new ES, and a sport-shift 6-speed automatic transmission. The Hybrid uses essentially the same drivetrain as the popular Camry hybrid...the transversely-mounted 2.5L four and permanent-magnet electric-motor Toyota Hybrid-Drive, with 200 total-system HP (no published torque or individual-HP figures), and a CVT (continously-variable) automatic transmission.
As of now, there are a fair number of new ES models in stock at local D.C.-area Lexus stores, in both regular and hybrid versions. For the actual review, I chose a regular ES350, with a fair number of options but without the Ultra-Lux package, as I felt that that configuration would be representative of the way a lot of new ES models would actually be purchased. I noticed that models with the Ultra-Lux package, among other things, had an extra, separate rear sunroof, so I check-tested the back seat of that version to see how the rear sunroof would affect headroom (significantly, as I'll explain below).
The new ES, overall, was pretty much what I had expected, but also gave me a few surprises, both pro and con. For the details, read on.
MODEL REVIEWED: 2013 Lexus ES350
BASE PRICE: $36,100
OPTIONS:
Blind-Spot Monitor: $500
HID Headlights: $515
One-touch Power Trunk: $400
Wood/Leather/Heated Steering Wheel: $480
Inituitive Parking Assist: $500
Rain-Sensing Wipers with De-Icer: $155
Luxury Package: $1370
Power Rear Sunshade: $210
8-Speaker Display/Audio/CD: $740
Accessory Trunk Package: $242
DESTINATION/FREIGHT: $895 (about average for this type of car)
LIST PRICE AS REVIEWED: $42,107
EXTERIOR COLOR: Cerculean Blue Metallic (a really nice blue-silver hue)
INTERIOR: Ivory Leather
DRIVETRAIN: FWD, Transversely-mounted 3.5L V6, 268 HP @ 6200 RPM, 248 Ft-Lbs. of Torque @ 4700 RPM,
6-speed sport-shift automatic transmission.
EPA MILEAGE RATING: 21 City, 24 Combined, 31 Highway
PLUSSES:
Smooth, refined, torquey V6....especially in Sport Mode.
Silky-smooth, quiet 6-speed automatic sport-shift transmission.
Low road/wind-noise level on most road surfaces.
Fairly good (but not quick) steering response.
Acceptably smooth ride on most surfaces with 55-series tires.
(might not be the case with the optional 18" 45s)
Excellent brake pedal location and response.
Good underhood layout by often-restrictive luxury-car standards.
Easily-accessed battery.
Well-done, well-applied exterior trim/hardare.
The usual Lexus-grade slick paint-job.
Some nice classy exterior paint-colors offered.
Smooth, slick-swiveling dual side mirrors also have integrated turn-signals.
Door-closings a little light-feeling on the outside, but strong and solid-feeling from inside. (Go Figure?)
Well-designed, easy-to-use controls/gauges....with a few exceptions.
Comfortable, form-fitting front-seat headreats.
Generally comfortable front seats.
Seat leather a nice grade/feel.
Rear-seat padding a little more comfortable than average.
Very nice sun-visor/headliner trim-material.
Adequate (but just barely) front seat headroom with sunroof for tall persons.
Adequate rear headroom without rear-sunroof.
Good legroom for most tall persons, front and rear.
Nicely-applied interior wood-trim...but could be more realistic-looking.
Classy, Infiniti-style chrome-faced dash clock.
Nice stereo sound quality.
Classy, slick-feeling polished-wood/leather steering wheel.
First-Kid kit in trunk typical of many Lexus products.
MINUSES:
Hybrid powertrain doesn't have much to distinguish it from the less-expensive Camry Hybrid powertrain.
OK but fairly slow steering response.
Some body-lean on sharp steering-input...but not excessive.
Large plastic engine-cover impedes some accessability (but the rest of the underhood-accessability is fine).
Rear-sunroof on Ultra-Lux package impedes some rear headoom.
Cheap-looking/feeling shiny black-plastic console-trim.
Annoying (IMO) zig-zag shift-lever action.
Interior door-panel trim (except for the nicely-applied wood-strips) not very impressive for a car of this class.
Poorly-designed, stiff-to-operate volume-adjustment **** for stereo (but can be done with steering-wheel tab).
Smallish glove-box not very roomy inside.
Very complex, icon-laden stereo/center-dash screen and ****-adjuster takes some getting used to.
Confusing, look-alike hood/trunk/gas-flap-release buttons all together under dash.
No body-side mouldings for parking-lot protection (the previous-model ES had them).
Temporary spare tire in the trunk.
Sometimes hard-to-navigate Lexus web-site (even the salespeople don't like it).
EXTERIOR:
The exterior and basic body-styling of the all-new 6th-generation ES, in a number of ways, is not really that much different from the outgoing 5th-generation model. Apparantly, the Lexus designers felt that if it sells well (which, of course, the ES does), then why mess with it? There are a few noticeable changes, though....the most obvious one being the addition/substitution of the inverse-trapezoid grille design that we have seen on other new Lexus models. In general, though, there is no mistaking this new design for what it is (an ES). Still, though, it was difficult for me at first, from a distance, to differentiate the new ES from the new GS, as the GS is also similiar in both interior and exterior styling. In fact, when I first got to the dealership and headed for what I thought was a row of new ES models, they actually turned out to be new GS. One of the Lexus reps there had to point out where the new ES models were actually parked.
Well, so much for that.....on with the review. The exterior body-sheet metal wasn't tank-grade, but acceptably solid-feeling by today's standards. The twin side-mirror housings were generally well-shaped, had an excellent slick/smooth feel to their swiveling/locking, and had nice integrated turn-signal indicators. The paint-job was (as expected) the usual slick Lexus-grade, and some nice classy colors are offered this year. They aren't sports-car bright, but not all the usual funeral-home shades either. I particularly liked the Matador Red, light blue-silver Cerculean Blue, dark brownish-purple Fire Agate.......and, of course, the always-classy Pearl (Starfire) White. I'm not a terribly big fan of the new Lexus inverse-trapezoid grilles they are using now, but IMO they aren't as bad as some others I've seen....like the Acura Parrot-beak or the big oversided Audi grilles. It seems like many automakers today are trying to distinguish their products by the grilles alone. As with most Lexus products, all of the exterior trim and hardware was well-done, well-applied, and slick-feeling. But (shame, shame)......the nice body-side moldings that helped protect previous ES models from parking-lot dings have been quietly dropped; presumably in the name of cost-cutting.
UNDERHOOD:
Open the fairly solid-feeling hood (the inside hood-release is confusing, but I'll get to that later), and two nice gas struts hold up the hood (as they should, IMO, in all cars). There is a nice insulation-pad under the hood (after all, most Lexus products are designed to have quiet engines). Underhood, I was expecting the usual nonsense in today's luxury/upmarket cars of hiding virtually everything under covers or panels, but, happily, that wasn't the case with the new ES. The transversely-mounted 3.5L V6 did in fact have a large plastic cover that blocked a lot of top-access, but otherwise fit in well enough to have at least some access around the sides to reach some components. The battery, close up front on the right, was exposed, uncovered, with the terminals very easy to reach, unlike in many upmarket cars. Most of the other parts/hardware underhood were at least reasonably easy to access, and all of the filler-caps and fluid-reserviors are easily-accessed. I thought I saw a (typically) yellow-marked oil-dipstick in there, but the Lexus-reps said that the engine has the same computer-monitoring of the oil system that many other upmarket cars do today.
INTERIOR:
Like the new exterior, the new ES interior is also, in styling, somewhat reminiscent of that in the new GS models. The super-slick leather/polished-wood steering wheel has to be seen (and felt) to be believed. It doesn't just have the wood on the top-arc, like many other wheels, but on some of the lower parts as well. Of course, this beautifully-done and heated wheel is not standard.....you must cough up another $480, but, IMO, it's probably money well-spent. The ceiling and sun-visors are also done in a nice, soft felt-fabric material (sun-visor-material is where a lot of manufacturers economize on nowadays). The seat-leather feels soft and of a nice grade, and the front seats are generally comfortable. The front-headrests are excellent, and curve naturally to the shape of the back of your head/neck. They feel very comfortable, even when they are pressing against you....an asset, of course, for anti-whiplash safety in rear-end impacts. Volvo and Mercedes (the perennial crash-safety leaders), could, IMO, learn from this design. The gauge-cluster, of course, has the usual Lexus electroluminescent back-lighting to it, and is simple and easy to read. Most (but not all) of the controls are simple and easy to use. The wood-trim strips on the dash and door panels are well-fit and have a slick feel to them, though, IMO, the wood-pattern on my particular car's trim-level could look a little more realistic. The stereo sound has a good quality to it, though you could tell it was not a top-level Mark Levinson unit, which comes with the Ultra-Lux package. In the middle of the dash sits a nice classy jeweled-chrome Infiniti-style analog circular clock (I wonder if Lexus pays Infiniti royalties for the production-rights to a design like that)? The back seats have somewhat nicer-padding on them than average, and, unlike the somewhat light unsubstantial sound you get when standing outside, when you close the doors on the inside, you get a solid, satisfying thunk. Legroom, front and rear, even with the front seat pushed back a little, seems good (or at least OK) for all but NBA guys.
So, are there any flies in the interior onitment? Yes, a few (I haven't seen a perfect auto-interior yet). The front headroom, under the sunroof, is OK for taller people only if you substantially drop the front-seat cushion down close to the floor. In back, without the optional rear-sunroof (which is part of the Ultra-Nav package), headroom is marginal for 6' 2" guys my size, and inadquate by about an inch or so with the rear sunroof. The glovebox has a lower-left-corner release-button that is hard to see at a glance, and is rather small inside. Under the left-front dash, near the foot-operated parking brake, are three confusing identical buttons, right next to each other, for the hood, trunk, and gas-flap releases. I'd love to know who in the design-department came up with that idea....I think a lot of owners, until they get used to it, are going to have to get out of the car to close things they unintendedly opened. The stereo-screen and adjuster system are quite complex to use, and the screen probably has more icons/menus on it than a PC Bill Gates himself would use. Except for the nicely-fitted wood strips, the rest of the interior door-panel trim, IMO, is hard, cheap-feeling and, IMO, somewhat out of place in a car of this class. The on/off/volume **** for the stereo, IMO, is poorly-designed ...it not only has a strange feel to it, but requires a lot of wobbly twirl-energy from your fingertips to rotate it...fortunately, the volume-functon can be adjusted with a steering-wheel tab-control. And Toyota/Lexus still persists with those (IMO) annoying zig-zag shift levers at a time when a number of other manufacturers are finally getting rid of them from customer-complaints (one of those complaints, of course, being mine).
CARGO COMPARTMENT/TRUNK:
Open up the trunk (a one-touch power option, which my car had, is $400) and, as expected, one encounters not only a fairly roomy cargo area by mid-sized sedan standards, but also the usual upmarket-grade Lexus materials inside. Nice attractive soft-feel black carpeting covers the floor and walls. There is the (usual) Lexus First-Aid kit inside. My particular car also had the optional ($242) Accessory Trunk Package, which consisted of several small added convenience features. Under the immediate trunk floor, above the spare, is a nice big foam-shaped container that contains all of the jacking, wheel-change, and other hardware. In general, nothing in the trunk looks or feels cheap until you get to the Bean-Count-Special temporary spare tire under the floor....a feature, of course, found on all too many of today's vehicles.
ON THE ROAD:
Start up the ubiquitous Toyota/Lexus 3.5L V6 with a nice engine START/STOP button (expected, of course, in a car of this class), and the engine rewards you with (what else?)....a Lexus-smooth and quiet idle. On the road, as expected, it remains smooth/quiet and refined, with surprising torque-response with lower speed acceleration. There is a big rotary switch on the console that programs the throttle-response from ECO/NORMAL/SPORT...I noticed some minor but not huge differences between the settings. A small blue tube-indicator in the gauge-panel jumps left/right with throttle-pressure to help you learn to keep a light foot on the pedal if you want good gas mileage. If you want power, though, this engine will give it, particularly in the SPORT setting (the official 248 ft-lbs. of torque, IMO, in a car this size, responds more like 280-300). Still, don't go around looking for a Mustang GT or Camaro SS on Friday night. The 6-speed automatic sport-shift transmission, apart from the aforementioned zig-zag shifter, is generally pleasant, being, like most Lexus transmissions, smooth/quiet and refined. There are no shift-paddles on the steering-column, but, once past the lever zig-zags and into the manual-shift-mode, a simple bump of the lever fore/aft gives you the gear you want smoothly and resonably quickly.
The chassis, by my standards, is reasonably well-designed and has decent driving-characteristics, though it is obvious that the ES wasn't (nor, IMO, should it be) designed to go head-to-head with the BMW 3-series or Infiniti G/M series (or any other true sport-sedan). The standard 55-series tires give a reasonably smooth ride over bumps, but not as smooth, of course, as the on the superb 4th-generation ES and its 60-series rubber....my all-time favorite ES. I did not sample the Ultra-Lux Package model, with its 18" 45-series tires, on the road, but it can probably be expected to be somewhat harsher than the 55's. Steering response, though safe and adequate, is a little on the slow side, and there is some mild, but not excessive, body roll on sharp corners and/or marked steering-input. Wind-noise and road-noise are well-controlled and quite low on most road surfaces, but....(and I'm being totally objective here, NOT just saying this because I myself own a new Verano)...the new ES's road/wind noise-level often can't equal that of Buick's new Quiet-Tuning, particularly on the tomb-quiet Verano. The Verano, having a 2.4L Ecotec four-cylinder, does sometime have a little more engine-noise than the Lexus 3.5L V6, but, most of the time, actually (to my ears) betters the ES in noise-control in all but the engine. To compensate, ES models with the 55-series tires generally ride smoother than the Verano, whose 45-series tires can bump sharply over some rough road irregularities.
(Lexus-fans......please don't toss any stones at me for saying this without first sampling the two cars for yourselves. Then, if you still disagree, then you can toss a pebble or two my way).
The new ES's brake pedal is excellent in several ways. It's superbly-located, far enough away from the gas pedal and low enough that my big clown-shoe size-15 can easily move on or off the gas pedal without brushing of getting hung-up on the edge of the brake....a problem in some vehicles (yes, even in my Verano, where I have to be careful). There is a nice firm feel to the ES brake-pedal, with little sponginess or free play, and it has almost a German feel to the response. Of course, the new Hybrid ES model, with its regenerative-braking and electric-motor hookup, may not (?) have the same feel to the pedal. Hybrids and regenerative brake systems sometimes have a quirky or grabby feel to the pedal (I did not sample a new ES hybrid, so I can't say).
THE VERDICT:
Well, overall, the new 2013 ES, IMO is a worthy successor to the previous version, though, considering everything and being totally objective on my part, I still like the superb 4th-generation ES300/330 models the best....those built from 2001-2006. But the new ES, of course, adds a long-overdue Hybrid version, though Lexus could have come up with something a little different for it than the ubiquitous Camry-Hybrid system. Still, I guess I can't really criticize the designers for that, as new hybrid-systems can cost a ton of money to develop. Even in a company of Toyota/Lexus's vast size, development-budget dollars aren't limitless, and sometimes you may just have use your company's standard parts-bin. Given what they actually had to work with, the designers have done a good job on the new ES. This one felt solid and securely-built from the start, without the annoying dash creaks/rattles and loose-construction the last all-new ES model had when it was first introduced. The super-slick steering wheel is something to die for...even at $480. The ES has consistantly had a better-than-average reliability rate, and the new model will probably carry on that tradition. Resale values have traditionally been good.
And, as mentioned, some things, IMO, still need improvement. The stereo-volume ****, triple-identical gas/hood/trunk releases, rear headroom on the Ultra-Lux package, zig-zag shift-lever, and cheapish console/door-panel trim all need improvement or a redesign. The ES is not a noisy car by any means, and has a long-standing reputaton for being hushed, but it is (now) getting some serious competition from Buick's Quiet-Tuning on both the LaCrosse and Verano. (I can't totally recommend the LaCrosse, though, because I don't think its interior is as well-assembled as the Verano's, nor is much of the hardware as solid). But, looking at the new ES for the package for what it actually is (and for what the version I reviewed costs)...you can be sure that it is not a bad way at all to spend 40K. Perhaps that is why so many new-car buyers each year take one home.
And, as always, Happy (Holiday) car-shopping.
MM
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-28-12 at 06:18 PM.
11-28-12, 04:27 PM
#2
Nice review Mike. I'm in and out of these (as well as the rest of the line-up) everyday. I agree with most everything here.
The ES seems to have lost some of that quiet tombstone ride due to insulation and tires.
THIS is my biggest gripe with the ES:
The cheapness of the console is so unbefitting a car of this caliber and price. Lexus should be ashamed of themselves. As you note, the door panels, glove box (flimsy) and some other trim pieces are off too.
In my opinion the 2006 ES330 had the best build quality mixed with materials used. No panel gaps and quality materials. Design was ho-hum.
The hybrid trim this model year is a welcome addition (though the I4 is a bit rough), and is what the HS should have been in the first place - an ES Hybrid
The ES seems to have lost some of that quiet tombstone ride due to insulation and tires.
THIS is my biggest gripe with the ES:
In my opinion the 2006 ES330 had the best build quality mixed with materials used. No panel gaps and quality materials. Design was ho-hum.
The hybrid trim this model year is a welcome addition (though the I4 is a bit rough), and is what the HS should have been in the first place - an ES Hybrid
11-28-12, 04:53 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The ES seems to have lost some of that quiet tombstone ride due to insulation and tires.
I suspect you may be right, though....maybe skimping on the insulation. But, if so, why do so on the ES.....IMO, it wouldn't make sense.
The ES is supposed to ride like a mini-LS.
THIS is my biggest gripe with the ES:
The cheapness of the console is so unbefitting a car of this caliber and price. Lexus should be ashamed of themselves. As you note, the door panels, glove box (flimsy) and some other trim pieces are off too.
The cheapness of the console is so unbefitting a car of this caliber and price. Lexus should be ashamed of themselves. As you note, the door panels, glove box (flimsy) and some other trim pieces are off too.
In my opinion the 2006 ES330 had the best build quality mixed with materials used. No panel gaps and quality materials. Design was ho-hum.
The hybrid trim this model year is a welcome addition (though the I4 is a bit rough), and is what the HS should have been in the first place - an ES Hybrid
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-28-12 at 05:14 PM.
11-28-12, 05:00 PM
#4
01'-06' LS430
01'-05' GS430
02'-06' ES330
02'-09' SC430
IS300
Cost cutting was very apparent on the generation follow.
Seems like Lexus heard the complains and it is starting to look better with the 4GS and the 13' LS.
Last edited by BNR34; 11-28-12 at 05:05 PM.
11-28-12, 05:11 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
I just finished reading the full ES350/300h reviews in Consumer Reports. I know there is a thread here bit it was interesting to read the whole report. They gave both an OK, but not stellar review. They kept making comparisons in ride, noise, interior materials with the outgoing model and in their opinion the new one doesn't measure up in a number of areas.
IMO Lexus got it right with the 2010 mid-cycle refresh. Maybe they'll do the same with the new gen in upcoming model years.
IMO Lexus got it right with the 2010 mid-cycle refresh. Maybe they'll do the same with the new gen in upcoming model years.
11-28-12, 05:35 PM
#6
I agreed^^^ That apply to all Lexus models built in that period, that was Lexus's golden years.
01'-06' LS430
01'-05' GS430
02'-06' ES330
02'-09' SC430
IS300
Cost cutting was very apparent on the generation follow.
Seems like Lexus heard the complains and it is starting to look better with the 4GS and the 13' LS.
01'-06' LS430
01'-05' GS430
02'-06' ES330
02'-09' SC430
IS300
Cost cutting was very apparent on the generation follow.
Seems like Lexus heard the complains and it is starting to look better with the 4GS and the 13' LS.
11-28-12, 05:41 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Unlike the creak/rattle-prone all-new 2007 model, though, this new 2013 seems to at least be solidly-built from the start, if lacking a bit (as Hoovey suggested) in the insulation department and (as I suggested) in the design/operation of some of the interior switches.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-28-12 at 05:51 PM.
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11-28-12, 06:36 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
Agreed. I mentioned, in the review, that I checked out a 2010 model and, even though it was a mid-generation freshening rather than a major redesign, the improvements were quite noticeable. I found the 2007-2009 models disappointing in several areas.
Unlike the creak/rattle-prone all-new 2007 model, though, this new 2013 seems to at least be solidly-built from the start, if lacking a bit (as Hoovey suggested) in the insulation department and (as I suggested) in the design/operation of some of the interior switches.
Unlike the creak/rattle-prone all-new 2007 model, though, this new 2013 seems to at least be solidly-built from the start, if lacking a bit (as Hoovey suggested) in the insulation department and (as I suggested) in the design/operation of some of the interior switches.
11-28-12, 06:54 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I bought 2007 ES350 when it was launched in late-April/early May 2006 and liked it well enough that I got a 2010 at the mid-cycle refresh. Both cars were problem free and were well suited to our needs. I'm sure the new ES will do well and appeal to the target buyers and that Lexus will make improvements and updates along the way. The car is too important for them not to. Two weeks ago we traded the 2010 in on a new Audi, just to try something different. So far so good.
You caught them at a time when their overall build-quality and reliablity seem to be improving......not to mention their road-manners as well. And their paint-jobs......just like a mirror.Today, I myself would probably buy an Audi product before a BMW or Mercedes, even though I like both M-B and BMW for chassis engineering. The only thing I really dislike on new Audis (as with the BMW I-Drive and Mercedes Command systems) is the MMI. If I had one, I'd try to set it once (the way usually I wanted it), and then forget it as much as possible.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-28-12 at 07:00 PM.
11-28-12, 07:42 PM
#10
Lexus Champion
Congratulations on the new Audi. You caught them at a time when their overall build-quality and reliablity seem to be improving......not to mention their road-manners as well. And their paint-jobs......just like a mirror.
Today, I myself would probably buy an Audi product before a BMW or Mercedes, even though I like both M-B and BMW for chassis engineering. The only thing I really dislike on new Audis (as with the BMW I-Drive and Mercedes Command systems) is the MMI. If I had one, I'd try to set it once (the way usually I wanted it), and then forget it as much as possible.
You caught them at a time when their overall build-quality and reliablity seem to be improving......not to mention their road-manners as well. And their paint-jobs......just like a mirror.Today, I myself would probably buy an Audi product before a BMW or Mercedes, even though I like both M-B and BMW for chassis engineering. The only thing I really dislike on new Audis (as with the BMW I-Drive and Mercedes Command systems) is the MMI. If I had one, I'd try to set it once (the way usually I wanted it), and then forget it as much as possible.
11-29-12, 01:05 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
Fantastic and very thorough review! Very happy you did the new ES, as I've been a fan of every one since the beginning.
A couple of things...
1) This new model does have real wood. So do you mean you wish the real wood looked more convincing?
2) I've had many 2007-2011 loaners, and to me, they all rode the same. Same sounds, same quality, same everything other than the new trim for 2010. None of the models I personally had (had one for five weeks) had any rattles. From what I've researched, they rattle no more than the class average.
3) I agree, the ES330 had the best interior of any Lexus. The sweet flow of the top of the dash, the shape and integration of the center stack, the choice of colors, materials, and wood tones, was absolutely classic. I don't care for the this new model's layered dash. There are way too many sections, splits, and shelves to it.
4) The last gen did not have any body side moldings as you stated. There was a very low sill rub strip, which was more for looks than function. It was not anything designed to protect the main area of the doors. And as with 95% of today's luxury cars, body side moldings are a styling blemish left off. It's not a cost-cutting measure at all.
5) I've got to drive these latest Buicks, because if they are quieter than the latest batch of Lexi, it must be a heavenly experience. I'm not poking, I'm complimenting. Buick's quietness sounds very attractive.
6) Cerulean Blue (note spelling) is a very interesting color. It's one of those two in one colors that plays tricks in lighting conditions. I love it, but to be honest, it's definitely a color I've only seen elders go for. It's the new gold. =)
Again, excellent review and happy holidays to you too!
A couple of things...
1) This new model does have real wood. So do you mean you wish the real wood looked more convincing?
2) I've had many 2007-2011 loaners, and to me, they all rode the same. Same sounds, same quality, same everything other than the new trim for 2010. None of the models I personally had (had one for five weeks) had any rattles. From what I've researched, they rattle no more than the class average.
3) I agree, the ES330 had the best interior of any Lexus. The sweet flow of the top of the dash, the shape and integration of the center stack, the choice of colors, materials, and wood tones, was absolutely classic. I don't care for the this new model's layered dash. There are way too many sections, splits, and shelves to it.
4) The last gen did not have any body side moldings as you stated. There was a very low sill rub strip, which was more for looks than function. It was not anything designed to protect the main area of the doors. And as with 95% of today's luxury cars, body side moldings are a styling blemish left off. It's not a cost-cutting measure at all.
5) I've got to drive these latest Buicks, because if they are quieter than the latest batch of Lexi, it must be a heavenly experience. I'm not poking, I'm complimenting. Buick's quietness sounds very attractive.
6) Cerulean Blue (note spelling) is a very interesting color. It's one of those two in one colors that plays tricks in lighting conditions. I love it, but to be honest, it's definitely a color I've only seen elders go for. It's the new gold. =)
Again, excellent review and happy holidays to you too!
Last edited by Fizzboy7; 11-29-12 at 01:10 AM.
11-29-12, 01:21 AM
#12
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While your personal opinion of the economy might be bad to many others its doing well and looking at how luxury car sales are doing better, well how could one say the economy is bad? Luxury car sales continue to grow.
You are wrong about the ES 250 being an answer to the integra. Lexus targeted BMW, Benz not Acura. The reason for the 250 was that Lexus dealers did not just want the Ls 400 in showrooms alone so the ES 250 was made quickly as an entry level model.
The ES 300 was not just reliable but at the time seen as sporty, winning a 10 beat award and beating the Acura legend, bonneville ssei and others in a comparo.
Third gen did just as well with sale and is very well built.
The fourth gen I think we all agree had the best interior but drove like a lbs barge. And it sold better than ever.
People beat up the 5th gen but it sold better than the 4th gen and gained much better looks. I think we all agree the interior was a step back but quality and reliability remained high.
I've had the opportunity to drive the new ES 350 and ES 300h and for the most part we agree I completely agree on the doors, they feel thin and plain especially compared to the GS but the cars are priced different. I also agree with hoovey on the odd center console.
That said the center dash feels very luxurious, looks luxurious and is a pleasure and really well done.
I also agree that the Eco/norm/sport makes a big difference. I was shocked at sport, its great.
As you stated room is abundant and the trunk is huge.
So great review of the new ES!!!!
You are wrong about the ES 250 being an answer to the integra. Lexus targeted BMW, Benz not Acura. The reason for the 250 was that Lexus dealers did not just want the Ls 400 in showrooms alone so the ES 250 was made quickly as an entry level model.
The ES 300 was not just reliable but at the time seen as sporty, winning a 10 beat award and beating the Acura legend, bonneville ssei and others in a comparo.
Third gen did just as well with sale and is very well built.
The fourth gen I think we all agree had the best interior but drove like a lbs barge. And it sold better than ever.
People beat up the 5th gen but it sold better than the 4th gen and gained much better looks. I think we all agree the interior was a step back but quality and reliability remained high.
I've had the opportunity to drive the new ES 350 and ES 300h and for the most part we agree
I completely agree on the doors, they feel thin and plain especially compared to the GS but the cars are priced different. I also agree with hoovey on the odd center console.That said the center dash feels very luxurious, looks luxurious and is a pleasure and really well done.
I also agree that the Eco/norm/sport makes a big difference. I was shocked at sport, its great.
As you stated room is abundant and the trunk is huge.
So great review of the new ES!!!!
11-29-12, 02:27 AM
#13
I agreed^^^ That apply to all Lexus models built in that period, that was Lexus's golden years.
01'-06' LS430
01'-05' GS430
02'-06' ES330
02'-09' SC430
IS300
Cost cutting was very apparent on the generation follow.
Seems like Lexus heard the complains and it is starting to look better with the 4GS and the 13' LS.
01'-06' LS430
01'-05' GS430
02'-06' ES330
02'-09' SC430
IS300
Cost cutting was very apparent on the generation follow.
Seems like Lexus heard the complains and it is starting to look better with the 4GS and the 13' LS.
11-29-12, 06:07 AM
#14
Lexus Champion
Fantastic and very thorough review! Very happy you did the new ES, as I've been a fan of every one since the beginning.
A couple of things...
1) This new model does have real wood. So do you mean you wish the real wood looked more convincing?
2) I've had many 2007-2011 loaners, and to me, they all rode the same. Same sounds, same quality, same everything other than the new trim for 2010. None of the models I personally had (had one for five weeks) had any rattles. From what I've researched, they rattle no more than the class average.
3) I agree, the ES330 had the best interior of any Lexus. The sweet flow of the top of the dash, the shape and integration of the center stack, the choice of colors, materials, and wood tones, was absolutely classic. I don't care for the this new model's layered dash. There are way too many sections, splits, and shelves to it.
4) The last gen did not have any body side moldings as you stated. There was a very low sill rub strip, which was more for looks than function. It was not anything designed to protect the main area of the doors. And as with 95% of today's luxury cars, body side moldings are a styling blemish left off. It's not a cost-cutting measure at all.
5) I've got to drive these latest Buicks, because if they are quieter than the latest batch of Lexi, it must be a heavenly experience. I'm not poking, I'm complimenting. Buick's quietness sounds very attractive.
6) Cerulean Blue (note spelling) is a very interesting color. It's one of those two in one colors that plays tricks in lighting conditions. I love it, but to be honest, it's definitely a color I've only seen elders go for. It's the new gold. =)
Again, excellent review and happy holidays to you too!
A couple of things...
1) This new model does have real wood. So do you mean you wish the real wood looked more convincing?
2) I've had many 2007-2011 loaners, and to me, they all rode the same. Same sounds, same quality, same everything other than the new trim for 2010. None of the models I personally had (had one for five weeks) had any rattles. From what I've researched, they rattle no more than the class average.
3) I agree, the ES330 had the best interior of any Lexus. The sweet flow of the top of the dash, the shape and integration of the center stack, the choice of colors, materials, and wood tones, was absolutely classic. I don't care for the this new model's layered dash. There are way too many sections, splits, and shelves to it.
4) The last gen did not have any body side moldings as you stated. There was a very low sill rub strip, which was more for looks than function. It was not anything designed to protect the main area of the doors. And as with 95% of today's luxury cars, body side moldings are a styling blemish left off. It's not a cost-cutting measure at all.
5) I've got to drive these latest Buicks, because if they are quieter than the latest batch of Lexi, it must be a heavenly experience. I'm not poking, I'm complimenting. Buick's quietness sounds very attractive.
6) Cerulean Blue (note spelling) is a very interesting color. It's one of those two in one colors that plays tricks in lighting conditions. I love it, but to be honest, it's definitely a color I've only seen elders go for. It's the new gold. =)
Again, excellent review and happy holidays to you too!
11-29-12, 07:05 AM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
(Of course, with flagship-expensive vehicles, leasing often takes the place of buying......that's how some people can afford to get into them with lower-payments)
You are wrong about the ES 250 being an answer to the integra. Lexus targeted BMW, Benz not Acura. The reason for the 250 was that Lexus dealers did not just want the Ls 400 in showrooms alone so the ES 250 was made quickly as an entry level model.
The ES 300 was not just reliable but at the time seen as sporty, winning a 10 beat award and beating the Acura legend, bonneville ssei and others in a comparo.
Third gen did just as well with sale and is very well built.
The fourth gen I think we all agree had the best interior but drove like a lbs barge. And it sold better than ever.
People beat up the 5th gen but it sold better than the 4th gen and gained much better looks. I think we all agree the interior was a step back but quality and reliability remained high.
I've had the opportunity to drive the new ES 350 and ES 300h and for the most part we agree I completely agree on the doors, they feel thin and plain especially compared to the GS but the cars are priced different.
I completely agree on the doors, they feel thin and plain especially compared to the GS but the cars are priced different.
As far as hybrid price premiums go, it was not a huge price increase, but then, you aren't really getting anything that new either......just esentially a Camry hybrid drivetrain.
I also agree with hoovey on the odd center console.
(But then, of course, I find a lack of side-mouldings objectionable, where some other people may not)
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-29-12 at 09:07 AM.