Tesla Model S - My first drive of a full electric car
12-20-12, 10:13 AM
#16
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Thanks for the write-up and congratz on your purchase. It does sound truly innovative and groundbreaking in many ways!
Well Toyota does have the 2nd-gen RAV4 EV running on the street already (seen one in my company's parking lot, driven by a lady), but of course it managed to reach production so fast because it's engineered by.. Tesla. 
And the BMW i3 is supposed to be the mainstream EV of theirs, with the i7 being the niche model. Neither the RAV4 EV nor the i3 can match the Model S in sex appeal though.
I think the relatively low life span of the batteries and the high cost of them will kill the EV's resale value unfortunately. It's not like a Toyota hybrid where the batteries are kept in a certain range of charge level in order to significantly prolong its usable life span.
When I look at the pipeline of BMW and Toyota (the 2 companies who I think have the engineering talent to pull this off), they won't have anything like this for at least 3 years even if it is already in development, and if it isn't in development it may take 5 years. The BMW i3 and i7 are niche products in comparison to this mainstream luxury sedan.
And the BMW i3 is supposed to be the mainstream EV of theirs, with the i7 being the niche model. Neither the RAV4 EV nor the i3 can match the Model S in sex appeal though.
I like this because it means resale will be strong.
Last edited by ydooby; 12-20-12 at 10:20 AM.
12-21-12, 03:10 AM
#19
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The Tesla Model S is impressive, no doubt about that. (I've driven one.) But I think the enthusiasm for it will wear off after the early adopters have got their cars, because of range limitations, which the "Supercharger network" really doesn't fix. It's a high price to pay for a car that you can't take on a road trip. I have a reservation for a Model X, however. There's really no ICE equivalent, and I plan to use it only for local trips. My LS430 can't be beat for road trips. I plan to keep it forever.
12-21-12, 05:29 AM
#20
The Tesla Model S is impressive, no doubt about that. (I've driven one.) But I think the enthusiasm for it will wear off after the early adopters have got their cars, because of range limitations, which the "Supercharger network" really doesn't fix. It's a high price to pay for a car that you can't take on a road trip. I have a reservation for a Model X, however. There's really no ICE equivalent, and I plan to use it only for local trips. My LS430 can't be beat for road trips. I plan to keep it forever.
12-21-12, 11:36 AM
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To me this is the blueprint for the car of the future. I share your sentiment, I can't understand why the like of Toyota don't offer a similar car, I find this ridiculous and completely unacceptable. It sets off the conspiracy theory part of my brain wondering why a small company can produce a fully electric car like this, and the big automakers can't. Or won't.
12-21-12, 11:45 AM
#23
The Tesla S is a six-figure car (when equipped with the real motor) which had its R&D covered by the American taxpayer. Its effective sales price is artificially lowered through tax incentives as well. If Tesla had to come up with the funds to operate their business using conventional means, this vehicle would have never been brought to market. The economics behind its development, manufacture, and sales would never work. Most individuals, when using their own money, demand a return on that money in the form of profit. A government is unconcerned by such "trivialities" (see General Motors).
Why don't we talk about the CAR and not about how terrible it is that the government gave Tesla some money to build the thing. There's another subforum for that!
12-21-12, 11:52 AM
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Are you going to complain about UPS and Fedex being paid by the USPS to ship packages for them (which subsidizes the rate you pay to ship your own), or Comcast/***/Time Warner/whoever having a monopoly on the market in which they operate?
Why don't we talk about the CAR and not about how terrible it is that the government gave Tesla some money to build the thing. There's another subforum for that!
Why don't we talk about the CAR and not about how terrible it is that the government gave Tesla some money to build the thing. There's another subforum for that!
12-21-12, 04:09 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
That's not the reason. It is not uncommon for a new platform/technology to not see ROI for 2-3 generations. And if anyone thinks long term, it is Toyota. Now ask yourself how much money the LFA made.
12-21-12, 08:17 PM
#26
Lexus Champion
The reason that a small startup company produces a Model S but established companies like Toyota, BMW and Mercedes-Benz do not is because the small startup company has to be innovative and it can be truly out-of-the-box innovative. For a startup company to be successful in the automotive manufacturing industry against established players like Mercedes-Benz (the oldest and one of the most innovative auto manufacturing companies) it must be different.
How can a startup be different? They could try to re-define the customer service experience. Oops, that has been done by Toyota (with Lexus) and Hyundai (with Genesis and Equus). Or they could try to re-define the automobile as we know it. That is what Tesla did. They are different by offering a different type of car. Had they merely tried to offer another hybrid electric vehicle, even a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, they would have risked not being different enough. But electric vehicles with great style, and more importantly, great range, now that is different.
Established manufacturers like Toyota, BMW and MB find it difficult to be so different (but do not assume that they do not have electric vehicles buried deep in their skunkworks because I am sure that they do and they will release them when they -- and the market -- are truly ready for them). Established manufacturers have much money and goodwill invested in "conventional" (gasoline-, diesel-, hybrid-powered) vehicles. They cannot just suddenly throw them all away and jump into the electric vehicle market; their established customer base would not let them. But these established manufacturers have become successful and established because they know the market; they have become successful over many, many years because they know what will sell and they produce what will sell. They will not risk everything on electric vehicles that will remain only a niche market for many years to come. They will test the market carefully, not only to try to determine what the buyers are looking for, but to try to lead those potential buyers in a certain direction.
By the time the market is truly ready, Toyota, BMW, MB, Volkswagen and others will release electric vehicles not only with great range, but also the infrastructure to support them (infrastructure is missing now). By that time, Tesla may be long gone (gone out of business or bought out by an established manufacturer, like Volkswagen).
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