2013 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 sets lap record at Laguna Seca, beats new SRT Viper
12-17-12, 08:15 PM
#1
2013 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 sets lap record at Laguna Seca, beats new SRT Viper
2013 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 sets lap record at Laguna Seca, beats new SRT Viper
As you may have heard, Motor Trend recently threw the 2013 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 and the 2013 SRT Viper GTS at each other. And while it was somewhat shocking to hear that the aging ZR1 actually managed to narrowly walk away as the winner of this particular scrap, something else interesting happened during the dust up. Motor Trend called on pro driver Randy Pobst to thrash the two bruisers around Laguna Seca, and thrash he did. Pobst managed to bolt out a time of 1:33.70 in the ZR1, besting the old record of 1:33.99 set by Chris Winkler some three years ago. Winkler managed the task in a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR.
Pobst managed to pull down a 1:35.77 in the SRT Viper GTS, making it the sixth-fastest car M/T has ever put through its paces at Laguna Seca. Don't shed a tear for the terror from SRT, though – the 2013 Viper is still quicker than hardware like the Ferrari 458 Italia, Lexus LFA and Nissan GT-R.
Unsurprisingly, the record-breaking story has triggered defensive posturing from the SRT camp, with none other than brand boss Ralph Gilles leaving comments on his Twitter feed like "There is a lot more left in the car, Randy has always struggled with the Viper" and "We've tested both cars at several tracks and never seen a gap like that. Many drivers needlessly fear the Viper.
The ZR1 may have drawn first blood on its way out the door, but one thing is for sure – this is only the first skirmish in what looks to be a long and highly entertaining battle.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/17/2...una-seca-beat/
12-17-12, 08:20 PM
#2
The ZR1 may have drawn first blood on its way out the door, but one thing is for sure – this is only the first skirmish in what looks to be a long and highly entertaining battle.
12-17-12, 08:23 PM
#3
the 2013 Viper is still quicker than hardware like the Ferrari 458 Italia, Lexus LFA and Nissan GT-R.
12-17-12, 09:05 PM
#4
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Interesting, they made the new Viper to be better and faster then the ACR and the Corvette so a gap between the 2 like that with the Corvette winning does not seem right.
Seems like someone can't drive a Viper
Seems like someone can't drive a Viper
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12-18-12, 09:42 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html
Today, for the first time ever, we get our hands on the 638-horsepower, 604-lb-ft ZR1 with those same sticky, 80 treadwear Michelin Pilot Sport Cup ZP tires. And we think we’ve found a worthy competitor.
Say hello to the 2013 SRT Viper GTS. But don’t make eye contact, or it will bite you. That’s the truth. Chrysler’s made much noise about how it’s gone and civilized the infamous snake. In a word, hogwash. The Viper might now have traction and stability control, but I’ll place my hand on whatever sacred book you like and swear that SRT brought in the Marquis de Sade as a consultant. Remember, no matter what software it’s running, the Viper still has an 8.4-liter V-10 now spitting out 640 horses and 600 lb-ft of torque, the latter of which isn’t available until 5000 rpm, aka when all hell has already broken loose. That power number is up 40 horses compared to the last Viper. And as you may recall, a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR is the current Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca production car record-holder. Er, I should say was, because one of the two cars you’re reading about broke the ACR’s record by more than two-tenths of a second on December 11, 2012, with Randy Pobst behind the wheel. I’ll save those details until later in the article. For now, let’s talk turkey about America’s two most ferocious supercars.
“I can’t think of two other direct competitors that are so equally matched, so equally designed, so equally sadistic,” says our road test editor Scott Mortara. “The Viper and the ‘Vette are twins separated at birth. Their technical specs overlay each other’s as far as length, width, and height, power output, drive configuration, seating position, weight, everything. There simply isn’t a better comparison when you look at the numbers. But that’s why we do comparison tests, because numbers never tell the whole story.”
Of course, numbers do tell part of the story. These two are within 2 horsepower of each other and 4 lb-ft of torque, and the Viper weighs just 13 pounds more than the Corvette. The ZR1’s R-compound Michelins are rated at 80 treadwear. The Viper’s Pirelli P Zero Corsas are an equally yet somehow even more ludicrous 60 treadwear. As for performance, both cars hit 60 mph in 3.4 seconds and run the quarter-mile in 11.4 seconds. The Corvette’s trap speed was fractionally faster than the Viper’s --128.8 mph versus 128.7 mph -- but talk about splitting hairs. Both pull a maximum of 1.08 g laterally, though the ZR1 knocked off the Viper on our figure eight by two-tenths of a second, 23.0 compared to 23.2. The Viper stopped from 60 mph in 93 feet, one foot behind our former record holder, the Z06 on cup tires. I say former because hey, look at this, the ZR1 with the sticky Michelins managed to do the deed in 91 feet, the best stopping distance we’ve ever recorded for a production car. Anyhow, these two are basically dead even, dynamically speaking.
I have this black sweater that my wife absolutely hates. It’s old, falling apart, and has so many holes in the sleeves that I use them like built-in gloves. It’s awful but I love it. And that’s the ZR1’s interior. For $125,920 you still get fake carbon fiber on top of fake leather. Worse, if you’re looking at the phony carbon on the center stack, you can actually see the real carbon fiber on the unpainted underside of the hood’s power bulge. If you had a jacket made from the same “leather” as the Corvette, you’d be ashamed to give it to Goodwill. The less said about the seats, the better. Yet here’s the weird part -- the ZR1 is actually a more comfortable place to be than the Viper. Chrysler spent a great deal of energy hyping the Viper’s more refined cabin. But what they’re not telling you is just how crude and inhuman the previous Viper’s cockpit was. I was telling our tech guru Frank Markus that after a hundred miles behind the wheel, my feet were 30 degrees hotter than my head. “Wow,” said Frank. “It was a 50-degree differential in the old one.” While the big navigation screen is a welcome improvement, the rock-hard seats are less comfortable than the ZR1’s. Especially on a 300-mile road trip. And the basically hidden seat controls are a joke. While I’ll hold my nose and choose the Corvette as the better place to sit, both represent the crudest interiors on the market in cars that cost more $100K. (The Viper as-tested lists for $141,990. Caveat emptor, dudes.)
Each car is so powerful, so capable, so massively endowed that they’re each beyond the realm of what constitutes a usable, reasonable street car. Mortara and I tried, but we couldn’t even get a tire to squeal on our road loop. And this was at speeds of up to (and let’s be honest, above) 100 miles per hour. Not only were we both unable and unwilling to approach anything near either cars’ limits on the street, at times we couldn’t even tell the two apart. At one point I made a comment to Mortara about the Viper, even though I’d just crawled out of the ‘Vette. We laughed. Still, by the teeny, tiniest of margins, we both preferred the Chevy. “Neither of us even came close to limit driving with these cars, and the same will be true of most owners,” said Mortara. “But both of our comfort levels were higher in the Corvette.” Of course, as mentioned, the Viper is supposed to be crueler. It’s supposed to be the beast you must tame. As my British colleagues like to say, you’d love to grab it by the scruff of its neck and wring it. Of course, the Viper’s trying to do the same thing to you.
The Viper is just more of an animal. As quick as the ZR1 feels in a straight line, the Viper GTS feels even more fleet. Moreover, initial turn-in is faster, and dare I say, more fun in the first ever stand-alone SRT product than in the Chevy. That said, the ZR1’s magnetic shocks ride better and provide a more confidence-inspiring experience. Also, the Chevy’s massive carbon-ceramic brakes are noticeably more gifted than the Viper’s steelies on the street. Still, it was close. And associate road test editor Carlos Lago noticed something else: “There is something alluring about the Viper that I can’t quite place. Not to say that I like it -- it’s an awful street car -- but I started to get this sense of reward. Like, I could finally get to a point where control of a Viper was within reach. That’s something I never thought was possible.” Ditto, as the old Viper is the first car I ever spun. Again, slight advantage goes to the ZR1, even though Mortara and I agreed we would have had more fun on the same roads in a Porsche Boxster.
Things were considerably different at the track. I took both monsters for a few laps on our benchmark circuit, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, and I was instantly more confident in the Chevrolet. I wasn’t flat-out, but on my third lap I didn’t lift going over turn 1, a feat I rarely accomplish. The HUD indicated I was going 115 mph, for me a freakish rate to be traveling over what’s essentially a blind turn. I tried a similar speed in the Viper and totally chickened out. I just didn’t have the confidence in the SRT, for two reasons. The first is that in the Corvette, you take your set for a turn and the car goes where you’ve indicated. You’re not futzing around with the steering wheel. Conversely, in the Viper, I found myself constantly jerking and sawing at the wheel through every corner of the track. Mortara commented that the Viper was a bit like the Lamborghini Aventador -- extremely capable, but it fills you with the sense that the front and rear ends aren’t working in unison. As Randy Pobst pointed out, “The Viper’s got more understeer and more oversteer than the Corvette.” The other reason I was more confident in the ZR1 was because of those ridiculous brakes. When Markus first drove the new Viper at Western Michigan’s Gingerman racetrack, he wrote that its slotted steel disks “proved indefatigable” but that a “lapping session at Laguna Seca will provide the ultimate fade-test.” If you don’t know, Laguna Seca is hell on brakes. Well, Frankie, they faded some, even with little old me kicking the middle pedal.
But who cares about me. Let’s talk Randy Pobst, who set the new Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca lap record in the Corvette ZR1 with a time of 1:33.70. The old record of 1:33.99, set by Chris Winkler in a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR, stood for more than three years. I asked Randy for his thoughts on setting the new record. “First, thanks to Motor Trend for the opportunity. Second, this lap record is reality. I’m proud of that. Just five laps, flat-out, in a ZR1 straight from the showroom. No three days of setup, testing and practice. Third, the thrill of taking 638 horsepower foot-to-the-floor around Mazda Laguna and coming back in one piece and on top. Especially the no-lift jump over turn 1. As brave as I’ve ever been. Fourth, satisfaction. Yeah, we got this.“ As for the new Viper, Randy ripped off an even braver (says me) lap of 1:35.77. To put that in perspective, the SRT would be the sixth-fastest car we’ve ever lapped at Laguna Seca, behind the aforementioned Aventador (1:34.50) and Randy’s own effort in the old Viper ACR (1:35.10). That said, the 2013 Viper is faster around Laguna Seca than the Ferrari 458 Italia, Lexus LFA, Audi R8 GT, Porsche GT3 RS, and Nissan GT-R. As Randy shouted when he learned this fact, “God bless America!”
As good as the Viper performs, the old, about-to-be-discontinued ZR1 performs 2.1 seconds per lap better. On Randy’s fastest ZR1 lap, his top speed was 140.4 mph over turn 1. Wicked fast! For comparison, in the Viper, Randy’s top speed at the same point was 138.4 mph, a seemingly small but significant difference. Interestingly, like me, Randy thought that the Viper felt quicker than the ZR1 in a straight line. Carlos chalks that up to the near complete lack of sound deadening in the cabin. The noise is brutal. Regardless, we know the cars are just as quick as each other. It was the SRT’s inferior shocks and brakes that prevented Randy from going totally flat in the Viper. Years ago, a Ferrari engineer was explaining to Randy, Angus and I that they (Ferrari) simply couldn’t figure out how the Nissan GT-R is able to lap the Nurburgring Nordschleife so quickly. “Oh, I know why,” Randy piped up. “Confidence. You can drive it faster because you’re more confident.” This seems to be exactly the case here with these two muscle-bound freaks. While eerily similar in almost every respect, on the track the ZR1 is the clear winner. Of course, we’ve known how good big-dog Corvettes are as track monsters for some time. Remember, the second-fastest car Randy’s ever flung around Laguna Seca is a 2012 Corvette Z06. Of course, this generation of Corvette is going out of production very soon. Moreover, this is SRT’s first effort with the new Viper. I can assure you that in a few years’ time we’ll be staging the new Viper ACR against the C7 Corvette Z-whatever. Until then, the Corvette ZR1 is the King of the Hill.
Today, for the first time ever, we get our hands on the 638-horsepower, 604-lb-ft ZR1 with those same sticky, 80 treadwear Michelin Pilot Sport Cup ZP tires. And we think we’ve found a worthy competitor.
Say hello to the 2013 SRT Viper GTS. But don’t make eye contact, or it will bite you. That’s the truth. Chrysler’s made much noise about how it’s gone and civilized the infamous snake. In a word, hogwash. The Viper might now have traction and stability control, but I’ll place my hand on whatever sacred book you like and swear that SRT brought in the Marquis de Sade as a consultant. Remember, no matter what software it’s running, the Viper still has an 8.4-liter V-10 now spitting out 640 horses and 600 lb-ft of torque, the latter of which isn’t available until 5000 rpm, aka when all hell has already broken loose. That power number is up 40 horses compared to the last Viper. And as you may recall, a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR is the current Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca production car record-holder. Er, I should say was, because one of the two cars you’re reading about broke the ACR’s record by more than two-tenths of a second on December 11, 2012, with Randy Pobst behind the wheel. I’ll save those details until later in the article. For now, let’s talk turkey about America’s two most ferocious supercars.
“I can’t think of two other direct competitors that are so equally matched, so equally designed, so equally sadistic,” says our road test editor Scott Mortara. “The Viper and the ‘Vette are twins separated at birth. Their technical specs overlay each other’s as far as length, width, and height, power output, drive configuration, seating position, weight, everything. There simply isn’t a better comparison when you look at the numbers. But that’s why we do comparison tests, because numbers never tell the whole story.”
Of course, numbers do tell part of the story. These two are within 2 horsepower of each other and 4 lb-ft of torque, and the Viper weighs just 13 pounds more than the Corvette. The ZR1’s R-compound Michelins are rated at 80 treadwear. The Viper’s Pirelli P Zero Corsas are an equally yet somehow even more ludicrous 60 treadwear. As for performance, both cars hit 60 mph in 3.4 seconds and run the quarter-mile in 11.4 seconds. The Corvette’s trap speed was fractionally faster than the Viper’s --128.8 mph versus 128.7 mph -- but talk about splitting hairs. Both pull a maximum of 1.08 g laterally, though the ZR1 knocked off the Viper on our figure eight by two-tenths of a second, 23.0 compared to 23.2. The Viper stopped from 60 mph in 93 feet, one foot behind our former record holder, the Z06 on cup tires. I say former because hey, look at this, the ZR1 with the sticky Michelins managed to do the deed in 91 feet, the best stopping distance we’ve ever recorded for a production car. Anyhow, these two are basically dead even, dynamically speaking.
I have this black sweater that my wife absolutely hates. It’s old, falling apart, and has so many holes in the sleeves that I use them like built-in gloves. It’s awful but I love it. And that’s the ZR1’s interior. For $125,920 you still get fake carbon fiber on top of fake leather. Worse, if you’re looking at the phony carbon on the center stack, you can actually see the real carbon fiber on the unpainted underside of the hood’s power bulge. If you had a jacket made from the same “leather” as the Corvette, you’d be ashamed to give it to Goodwill. The less said about the seats, the better. Yet here’s the weird part -- the ZR1 is actually a more comfortable place to be than the Viper. Chrysler spent a great deal of energy hyping the Viper’s more refined cabin. But what they’re not telling you is just how crude and inhuman the previous Viper’s cockpit was. I was telling our tech guru Frank Markus that after a hundred miles behind the wheel, my feet were 30 degrees hotter than my head. “Wow,” said Frank. “It was a 50-degree differential in the old one.” While the big navigation screen is a welcome improvement, the rock-hard seats are less comfortable than the ZR1’s. Especially on a 300-mile road trip. And the basically hidden seat controls are a joke. While I’ll hold my nose and choose the Corvette as the better place to sit, both represent the crudest interiors on the market in cars that cost more $100K. (The Viper as-tested lists for $141,990. Caveat emptor, dudes.)
Each car is so powerful, so capable, so massively endowed that they’re each beyond the realm of what constitutes a usable, reasonable street car. Mortara and I tried, but we couldn’t even get a tire to squeal on our road loop. And this was at speeds of up to (and let’s be honest, above) 100 miles per hour. Not only were we both unable and unwilling to approach anything near either cars’ limits on the street, at times we couldn’t even tell the two apart. At one point I made a comment to Mortara about the Viper, even though I’d just crawled out of the ‘Vette. We laughed. Still, by the teeny, tiniest of margins, we both preferred the Chevy. “Neither of us even came close to limit driving with these cars, and the same will be true of most owners,” said Mortara. “But both of our comfort levels were higher in the Corvette.” Of course, as mentioned, the Viper is supposed to be crueler. It’s supposed to be the beast you must tame. As my British colleagues like to say, you’d love to grab it by the scruff of its neck and wring it. Of course, the Viper’s trying to do the same thing to you.
The Viper is just more of an animal. As quick as the ZR1 feels in a straight line, the Viper GTS feels even more fleet. Moreover, initial turn-in is faster, and dare I say, more fun in the first ever stand-alone SRT product than in the Chevy. That said, the ZR1’s magnetic shocks ride better and provide a more confidence-inspiring experience. Also, the Chevy’s massive carbon-ceramic brakes are noticeably more gifted than the Viper’s steelies on the street. Still, it was close. And associate road test editor Carlos Lago noticed something else: “There is something alluring about the Viper that I can’t quite place. Not to say that I like it -- it’s an awful street car -- but I started to get this sense of reward. Like, I could finally get to a point where control of a Viper was within reach. That’s something I never thought was possible.” Ditto, as the old Viper is the first car I ever spun. Again, slight advantage goes to the ZR1, even though Mortara and I agreed we would have had more fun on the same roads in a Porsche Boxster.
Things were considerably different at the track. I took both monsters for a few laps on our benchmark circuit, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, and I was instantly more confident in the Chevrolet. I wasn’t flat-out, but on my third lap I didn’t lift going over turn 1, a feat I rarely accomplish. The HUD indicated I was going 115 mph, for me a freakish rate to be traveling over what’s essentially a blind turn. I tried a similar speed in the Viper and totally chickened out. I just didn’t have the confidence in the SRT, for two reasons. The first is that in the Corvette, you take your set for a turn and the car goes where you’ve indicated. You’re not futzing around with the steering wheel. Conversely, in the Viper, I found myself constantly jerking and sawing at the wheel through every corner of the track. Mortara commented that the Viper was a bit like the Lamborghini Aventador -- extremely capable, but it fills you with the sense that the front and rear ends aren’t working in unison. As Randy Pobst pointed out, “The Viper’s got more understeer and more oversteer than the Corvette.” The other reason I was more confident in the ZR1 was because of those ridiculous brakes. When Markus first drove the new Viper at Western Michigan’s Gingerman racetrack, he wrote that its slotted steel disks “proved indefatigable” but that a “lapping session at Laguna Seca will provide the ultimate fade-test.” If you don’t know, Laguna Seca is hell on brakes. Well, Frankie, they faded some, even with little old me kicking the middle pedal.
But who cares about me. Let’s talk Randy Pobst, who set the new Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca lap record in the Corvette ZR1 with a time of 1:33.70. The old record of 1:33.99, set by Chris Winkler in a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR, stood for more than three years. I asked Randy for his thoughts on setting the new record. “First, thanks to Motor Trend for the opportunity. Second, this lap record is reality. I’m proud of that. Just five laps, flat-out, in a ZR1 straight from the showroom. No three days of setup, testing and practice. Third, the thrill of taking 638 horsepower foot-to-the-floor around Mazda Laguna and coming back in one piece and on top. Especially the no-lift jump over turn 1. As brave as I’ve ever been. Fourth, satisfaction. Yeah, we got this.“ As for the new Viper, Randy ripped off an even braver (says me) lap of 1:35.77. To put that in perspective, the SRT would be the sixth-fastest car we’ve ever lapped at Laguna Seca, behind the aforementioned Aventador (1:34.50) and Randy’s own effort in the old Viper ACR (1:35.10). That said, the 2013 Viper is faster around Laguna Seca than the Ferrari 458 Italia, Lexus LFA, Audi R8 GT, Porsche GT3 RS, and Nissan GT-R. As Randy shouted when he learned this fact, “God bless America!”
As good as the Viper performs, the old, about-to-be-discontinued ZR1 performs 2.1 seconds per lap better. On Randy’s fastest ZR1 lap, his top speed was 140.4 mph over turn 1. Wicked fast! For comparison, in the Viper, Randy’s top speed at the same point was 138.4 mph, a seemingly small but significant difference. Interestingly, like me, Randy thought that the Viper felt quicker than the ZR1 in a straight line. Carlos chalks that up to the near complete lack of sound deadening in the cabin. The noise is brutal. Regardless, we know the cars are just as quick as each other. It was the SRT’s inferior shocks and brakes that prevented Randy from going totally flat in the Viper. Years ago, a Ferrari engineer was explaining to Randy, Angus and I that they (Ferrari) simply couldn’t figure out how the Nissan GT-R is able to lap the Nurburgring Nordschleife so quickly. “Oh, I know why,” Randy piped up. “Confidence. You can drive it faster because you’re more confident.” This seems to be exactly the case here with these two muscle-bound freaks. While eerily similar in almost every respect, on the track the ZR1 is the clear winner. Of course, we’ve known how good big-dog Corvettes are as track monsters for some time. Remember, the second-fastest car Randy’s ever flung around Laguna Seca is a 2012 Corvette Z06. Of course, this generation of Corvette is going out of production very soon. Moreover, this is SRT’s first effort with the new Viper. I can assure you that in a few years’ time we’ll be staging the new Viper ACR against the C7 Corvette Z-whatever. Until then, the Corvette ZR1 is the King of the Hill.
Last edited by bagwell; 12-18-12 at 09:46 AM.
12-18-12, 12:16 PM
#9
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Looking at the stats and performance #'s that Bagwell posted, they seem to be equally matched. Although, the Viper does have better weight distribution. If I had to choose either one, it'd be the ZR1. I just prefer the look of the ZR1 over the Viper.
12-18-12, 02:11 PM
#10
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Sorry but drag racing is not what the LFA is designed for.
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