*Batman*

The reason I said I don't care what's under the hood is because I know the formula.

AMG always has lots of power but not enough control. They are great cars for driving in a straight line.

When you talk to an AMG owner they are excited about who they smoked at a light. When you talk to a BMW M owner they will tell you about the corners, the mountains, the technical race tracks. This is a very big difference.

So being interested in what's under the hood of an AMG is naive in my opinion. You already know what you will find - a great engine. It's the other bits that are missing.

TangoRed

Last response, I promise. Did you read the article (or any) about the E63? Its handling characteristics have been applauded. Just because the owner talks one way doesn't mean the AMGs aren't capable machines. They can handle now too. You're stuck in the old AMG times, my friend. Not saying they're perfect by any stretch, but you're selling them short.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I am with you, handling of AMG's cars are really good now, unlike the old days. But I think mostly the cars with the airmatic (E), and ABC (S) have that mushy feelings that sporty driver dislike, that's why they still hate them. The cars with steel springs are some of the best handling cars in the world, SLS and the C63 Black just got 2nd in the best driver's car competition.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

back in the w211 generation, e55/63 were only about straight line. they simply did not perform well on curves. but that has all changed since w212. that car can turn pretty darn well.

*Batman*

I admit the last AMG I test drove was the 2012 CLS63. And that conditioned my view.

So you are saying this one is much better in AWD form. I'll try it but I am skeptical unless they are using a Ferrari FF style AWD system which effectively disengages power to the front wheels unless needed.

DONT SLEEP

iTrader: (8)

AMG's targeted audience 5-6 years ago was the consumer who wanted a fast, reliable, comfortable vehicle... unfortunately, with comfort ride comes soft suspension which is never going to be good around the corners. When you see cars like the C63 black series which uses traditional coilover suspension, it's all different. They even say it handles better than the M3. Well, that car goes against AMGs larger audience and they made it specifically for those who are heavy track fans. So yes, AMG can make cars that handle well, but it's just not their niche.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

The AWD system on the FF is not computer controlled torque split vectoring on demand like the R35 GTR and 997 Turbo S. The front gear box is engaged from gear 1-4, disengages in 5-7 gear, it is actually a pretty dumb mechanical system, it is not designed to enhance handling like the system on the R35 and 911. It is just made so the car can get out of a hole on a ski resort, that's why all the promotion is done on snow on a mountain, not setting a good lap time.

LexFather

Yeah this isn't 1995 where every BMW was sportier and every Benz (everyone else) was less sporty. In many cases its the other way around as BMW has gotten fluffier and softer. Current AMGs are very engaging drives and BMW offers nothing to fight the SLS and quite a few other AMG cars.

My times behind the new AMGs is full of glowing praise. They steer and drive great. Many of us have discussed how the middle is full of car brands. Lexus, Benz, Audi all went sportier, BMW went softer. It is very hard to say one brand is just sportier than the others since they now all have soft cars and very hard cars. There is no answer for the LFA for example.

Here are the C&D results, the C63 Black Series was faster than any BMW around the track. The IS F was right there with the M5. Just one source but it shows things have changed.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

M continue to get softer and softer, now is pretty much a very plush luxury car with sport suspension, it is attracting people like me who don't want a sports car

BMW is doing that to make more sales..........it works.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

The C63 Black is a 500 hp Miata..............enough said.

Yanz

My father is the same way. He likes the merc for its comfort and plenty of low end torque from the v8. It's not like he tracks his E550, so he doesn't care how it handles in corners. I'd say he goes over a lot more speed bumps then takes sharp turns...

He just likes toying with young guys in TL's at stop lights.