spwolf

Subaru does not have nor it would ever have a Lexus version, while BMW and Lexus are natural partners. Plus, Toyota is part owner of Subaru anyway.

jwong77

Welcome to the family.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Just realized this could create the ultimate sports car.

Currently Toyota have reliability but lack in driving excitment and chassis dynamic.

BMW is opposite, excellent in driving excitment and chassis dynamic but lack reliability.

Combined the best from both companies..............BOOM = ultimate sports car.

That means a car that drive like a BMW that can go 300k miles without major repair..........I am excited

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

It said "mid-size sports vehicle", not "halo".

But I guess it could just mean "size", a halo vehicle doesn't have to be very big. The LFA is not very big at all.

Exciting times for sure, my dream might be coming true, a Euro sports car with Japanese reliability

spwolf

i dont see it being available for next 4 years at least so who knows when, who cares :-)

G Star

iTrader: (2)

My very biased take on all of this:

BMW got spooked by the LFA, 4GS, and 3IS.


My unbiased take:

This is the free market at work. Two giants in the automotive industry getting together to provide a better product.

mrraider

Or you might end up with a car that drives like an Avalon with cracking sub frames and HPFP failures.

TF109B

Toyota doesn't need BMW. It's more the opposite if BMW want to keep up in the hybrid department. The GT-86 is a(n affordable) sports car done right. The new Lexus GS and IS definitely meet the 'chassis dynamic' and 'driving excitement'. BMW has been doing the old Lexus, and Lexus is doing the old BMW! Confusing but that's the route it seems to be going.

ydooby

One thing BMW still reigns supreme though is in the "magic steering feel" (or telepathic steering, feeling directly connected to the road, etc.) department. If Toyota can just learn from BMW this one thing Toyota will be all set for a perfect sports/sporty car. Alas, that isn't part of the deal is it?

DFGeneer

I don't see this happening. Except if Toyota is switching back to hydraulic power steering. Which I doubt.
BMW switched to electric power steering recently too, so its "magic steering feel" is gone.

natnut

Tell that to the F10 5 series and F30 3 series owners.

The "magic steering feel" of BMW is a thing of the past. Probably due to the BMW's current implementation of EPS.

The FT-86 has better steering feel than any current BMW for what its worth.

Toyota now has the capability but not the cachet of making driver's cars. BMW has somehow lost its capability but still retains the old hype/cachet of making driver's cars.

Could be a gambit by Toyota to utilise BMW's (currently undeserved) reputation of "The Ultimate Driving Machine".Toyota could just continue down its current path of newfound dynamism while getting the credibility that the BMW brand lends.

spwolf

its not that complicated... Toyota wants to sell their hybrid stuff to anyone who wants to buy it... now fuel cell too.
It is convenient that they could get BMW engines (before BMW bought diesel engine from Toyota) and maybe something will be done with carbon fiber, as BMW is building new factory with supplier with cheap carbon fiber production.

With hybrid and ev and fuel cell stuff, it is good for high speed hybrid development that they could possibly spread the costs right now with BMW, as these cars are low sales.

Sports car JV is just last thing on that list.

Bean

iTrader: (1)

There isn't any, they're pretty ecstatic for what Toyota can bring to the table, packaging and QA wise. Not sure about the strawman version of a BMW owner that you believe exists, but most of them respect Toyota quite a bit.

While you're on the mark about the numb steering feel on the F30 3 series, I think you're missing that BMW is bringing out the 4 series as a sporty coupe. It will probably have much better steering feel than the F30 did; and you can bet the M3/M4 twins will be just fine. My E92 does pretty well as an 'older' model

You act as if the steering is terrible. It's still better than EVERY SINGLE MODEL that Toyota and Lexus has aside from the IS350/GS350 F-sport, both of which ride VERY rough for a Lexus and do well in tests because the BMW has no LSD. Is BMW the standard-bearer for steering feel across their entire model line? Not really, but they were just a generation ago; and their M cars still are.

BMW has plenty to teach regarding chassis tuning, and a LOT to teach about engines. Toyota has fallen behind in the engine dept. The new M3/M4 engine is going to be amazing, and I really do hope it ends up in the next Supra (because I might buy one).

Yes, because the ISF is totally a competitor to the M3 and whose engine isn't totally outclassed by a Ford. *gigglesnort* The GT-86 was done right, but severely underpowered and if you'll remember correctly, much of the chassis tuning was done by Subaru, along with the engine. I'd also hesitate to say the GS F-sport meets the 'chassis dynamic' because it gets by on harsh suspension. The cool thing about BMWs suspension tuning (aside from current numb steering issues on non M-models) is that they handled great but still rode very well -- Toyota/Lexus still doesn't have this.

spwolf

Uhm, 2013 GS does not have harsh suspension. What are we talking about here? I drove base version without AVS and it was still smooth.

Bean

iTrader: (1)

I'm speaking specifically about the F-sport. And yeah, for a GS it's pretty harsh.