Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Subaru's first hybrid drawing close

In 2011 Subaru parent company Fuji Heavy Industries confirmed that a hybrid Subaru would debut this year. Ever since, there's been speculation about what kind of technology the gasoline-electric hybrid would use – Subaru's own or some version of the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive, which car would debut the new system – Forester, Legacy, or Outback – and whether it would come to America or be a Japan-only model.

A report in The Detroit Bureau says that whatever that first model is, it could be shown as soon as the New York Auto Show, and while the company feels it's a must-have offering for the Japanese market it will also come to the US. It will have a Subaru-developed mild hybrid system that could have been previewed by the Hybrid Tourer concept shown at the 2009 Tokyo Motor Show, and is not expected to be able to drive on electric power alone. The Hybrid Tourer used a direct-injected, 2.0-liter boxer engine connected to a CVT and assisted by an electric motor rated at 13 horsepower. Subaru has yet to give anything away about the details of its hybrid plans, so we'll look to New York for the long-awaited unveil.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/27/s...drawing-close/

mmarshall

Never mind the hybrid.....Subaru officials have yet to come up with a good (or even adequate) answer for why the flat-four diesels they sell in Europe have never been offered here. They need to (honestly) answer that before they commit themselves to a hybrid.

spwolf

cost and emissions...

as to the hybrids, it will be HSD for sure.

mmarshall

With all due respect, I don't agree with that. VW has been selling low-cost TDI diesels here in the U.S. for years....at prices that sometimes are equal to or lower than Subaru gas-engines. With the availability of low-sulfur diesel fuel (now in the U.S.), modern engineering, and increasing use of urea-solutions (though some of the TDIs don't need the urea), diesel-pollution is no longer a significant factor.

Jewcano

iTrader: (4)

^Price of diesel can play a roll too.

Locally diesel costs WAY more than premium. If premium here at a local station is 3.55, diesel will be 3.99.

Funny when I was alot younger, my father told me diesel was the byproduct of producing gasoline, and that's why back in the day, it was so much cheaper. No idea now why it costs more than premium, at least if that premise was true?

mmarshall

Simple. Since 2005, in the U.S. only low-sulfur diesel fuel can be sold for regular passenger cars. It obviously costs more to refine.

Still, diesel-fuel at $3.99 vs. premium gas at $3.55 will, in most cases, still be cheaper to run, simply because compression-ignition engines get so much better fuel-mileage.....30-50% more on average than gasoline-equivalents. Some small 1.2L-1.5L Euro-diesels get unbelievable highway mileage...60-80 MPG in some cases, and with adequate torque. Not only that, but, even here in the U.S. diesels usually qualify for alternate-fuel tax-credits, even though they are still technically fossil-fuel-burning. Never have figured that one out...it still beats me?

Back to the Subie hybrid...it will be interesting to see how the engineers fit in both gas and electric powerplants, transmission, and final-drive unit all into the limited space in the front of a small Subaru. Transverse-engined vehicles, of course, allow placement of components off to the side....but Subie flat-fours have the output-shaft coming straight out the back, which does not allow for side-placed components.

spwolf

Subaru sells a lot less TDI's than VW, and their costs are a lot larger than VWs. A lot larger. They sell less than 50k worldwide while VW sells millions.

It makes little sense for Subaru to offer their TDI in the USA at all... while hybrid will sell great over two of their biggest markets - US and Japan.

And plus TDI is not cheap, it is $2.5k more than equivalent petrol Jetta for instance.

So its $2.5k extra plus more expensive gas. And they probably subsidize cost of engine at that price, since they always have low availability trying to convince us that they cant produce more despite selling 100x more in Europe without issues.

spwolf

it needs to be refined more to remove sulphur from it... so it is more expensive to produce. what happens in europe is that many countries they subsidize the cost of diesel fuel so it is cheaper than petrol. they do it by lower taxes on diesel fuel vs petrol (in europe taxes on fuel are 50% of the price of the fuel).

UberNoob

US heavily subsidizes gasoline prices so it is artificially deflated

diesel prices here in north america is more true to its costs of production than gasoline is


but back on topic, why has it taken it so long for Subaru to make a hybrid?

spwolf

Toyota purchased stake in FHI only years ago... new 2.5l is more suitable for existing Subaru cars, and it is just getting released into all Toyota's. Toyota didnt have enough capacity until 2012, when their newest battery plants went online and almost doubled their production.

A lot of things all together.

Sulu

Why did Subaru choose to sell a hybrid model but not a diesel model here in North America? Business. The hybrid model likely offered a much better business case than the diesel model. The potential demand for hybrid models is likely much greater than the demand for a diesel model. Other than the Germans, no other brand offers diesel cars in North America. Nissan and Honda may have promised but have failed to deliver. Mazda is the latest to promise a diesel car but we will have to wait and see if it actually comes. There is (still) very little demand for diesel cars in North America.

Why did Subaru wait so long before offering a hybrid model? As a small auto manufacturer, their resources -- money and engineers -- will be limited, and they have just spent those resources in the last few years finally updating their gasoline engines. Now, assuming that their high-priority engineering projects are complete, they can afford to spend resources on developing a hybrid.

Hybrid drivetrain components may also be more readily available (read cheaper to acquire) now also. And with the help of big step-brother Toyota available to source electric motors, batteries and other hybrid car components, it may be getting easier to acquire them.

As to whether Subaru goes with the Hybrid Synergy Drive or a simple, single-electric motor hybrid, we will have to wait and see. If it is HSD, Toyota/Aisin will have to produce a new longitudinal AWD Power Split Device hybrid transmission to take the place of Subaru's Symmetrical AWD transmission.

If it is a simple, in-line electric motor, that is the route taken by other current hybrid vehicle producers (other than Toyota and Ford), including Mercedes-Benz, BMW, VW Group, Hyundai/Kia and Honda. It is a very simple implementation: swap out the torque converter on an automatic transmission for an electric motor. It also takes up very little extra room (if any); if Honda and Hyundai/Kia can use that implementation in transverse FWD transmissions, Subaru can easily do it for their longitudinal AWD transmission.

bagwell

13hp...LOL, sounds like Honda's lame "hybrids"....

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Don't forget GM's "Mild" Hybrids too

spwolf

if it is mild hybrid then it will suck.

IS350jet

You think that's funny? It's certainly no better than the S class Hybrid with only 20HP electric on tap and a hybrid battery no bigger than a shoebox.