German cars among worst for engine failures
02-01-13 | 01:30 AM
#1
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From: Singapore
German cars among worst for engine failures
Amidst the mass hysteria for turbocharged/supercharged cars by German automakers and the automotive media acting as uncritical cheerleaders for the German-led trend of force induction engines, there comes a sobering reminder that you can't always have your cake and eat it.
German-made cars are not as reliable as many believe, according to new research. Warranty Direct has studied its claims data to compile a list of the manufacturers with the most reliable engines - and Audi, BMW and Volkswagen all finished in the bottom 10 out of a total 36 makers.
In fact, the only firm whose cars had a worse engine failure rate than Audi was MG Rover. MINI wasn’t much better, finishing third from bottom, while its parent company BMW came seventh from bottom. And, despite its reputation for rock-solid reliability, Volkswagen came ninth from bottom.
Honda scooped the gold medal – the study found that just one in every 344 Honda engines failed, compared to one in every 27 Audi engines. Despite its recent recall woes, Toyota came second and Mercedes managed to outperform its fellow German brands with a respectable third-place finish.
Duncan McClure, Warranty Direct Managing Director, said that engine failures are the worst for motorists as they’re the repairs that can lead to the highest costs because of the parts and hours of labour required to fix them: “The nuber of failures may be low compared to areas such as axle and suspension damage but engine repairs almost always result in costs reaching the thousands for motorists who aren’t covered by a warranty.”
An engine failure on a Range Rover Vogue recently led to Warranty Direct’s highest ever claim of £13,000.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...ngine-failures
My take on this issue :
the Top 2 most reliable engines came from Honda and Toyota, probably due partly to them not turbocharging/supercharging their engines.
Besides the reliability aspect, force induction tends to give artificial non-progressive throttle response at best and significant turbo-lag at worst (when compared to a well implemented normal aspirated power/drive-train).
So to those who champion force-induction as the next automotive 2nd coming, realise that there's always a price to pay for that low-down torque and nice EPA fuel consumption figures.
German cars 'among worst for engine failures'
Audi, BMW and VW ranked in the bottom 10 of a study into engine reliability
Audi, BMW and VW ranked in the bottom 10 of a study into engine reliability
German-made cars are not as reliable as many believe, according to new research. Warranty Direct has studied its claims data to compile a list of the manufacturers with the most reliable engines - and Audi, BMW and Volkswagen all finished in the bottom 10 out of a total 36 makers.
In fact, the only firm whose cars had a worse engine failure rate than Audi was MG Rover. MINI wasn’t much better, finishing third from bottom, while its parent company BMW came seventh from bottom. And, despite its reputation for rock-solid reliability, Volkswagen came ninth from bottom.
Honda scooped the gold medal – the study found that just one in every 344 Honda engines failed, compared to one in every 27 Audi engines. Despite its recent recall woes, Toyota came second and Mercedes managed to outperform its fellow German brands with a respectable third-place finish.
Duncan McClure, Warranty Direct Managing Director, said that engine failures are the worst for motorists as they’re the repairs that can lead to the highest costs because of the parts and hours of labour required to fix them: “The nuber of failures may be low compared to areas such as axle and suspension damage but engine repairs almost always result in costs reaching the thousands for motorists who aren’t covered by a warranty.”
An engine failure on a Range Rover Vogue recently led to Warranty Direct’s highest ever claim of £13,000.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...ngine-failures
the Top 2 most reliable engines came from Honda and Toyota, probably due partly to them not turbocharging/supercharging their engines.
Besides the reliability aspect, force induction tends to give artificial non-progressive throttle response at best and significant turbo-lag at worst (when compared to a well implemented normal aspirated power/drive-train).
So to those who champion force-induction as the next automotive 2nd coming, realise that there's always a price to pay for that low-down torque and nice EPA fuel consumption figures.
Last edited by natnut; 02-01-13 at 09:15 AM.
02-01-13 | 09:16 AM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,363
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From: Ontario
To be fair, the point isn't about overall reliability but engine failure. This doesn't really break down the proportion of NA vs FI engines that failed, so attributing the poor showing to rise in FI is probably premature.
Everything I've heard about BMW's NA engines has been positive, and this is the first report that puts it at the bottom of the heap. It would be interesting to see the detailed data broken down by types of failure and kind of engines.
Everything I've heard about BMW's NA engines has been positive, and this is the first report that puts it at the bottom of the heap. It would be interesting to see the detailed data broken down by types of failure and kind of engines.
02-01-13 | 10:12 AM
#5
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,309
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From: Canada
This is a repost of:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...y-lex-6th.html
The difference is that the original thread talked about reliability (top down) and this thread talks about faiure rates (bottom up).
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...y-lex-6th.html
The difference is that the original thread talked about reliability (top down) and this thread talks about faiure rates (bottom up).
02-01-13 | 10:25 AM
#6
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,010
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From: CA
This survey was done by Warranty Direct, whose official site also has rankings of overall reliability.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Best 10:
1 Ford Fiesta
2 Mitsubishi Lancer
3 Vauxhall Agila
4 Suzuki Alto
5 Toyota Aygo
6 Toyota Yaris
7 Volvo S40
8 Honda HR-V
9 Citroen Saxo
10 Mazda MX-5
Worst 10:
1 Audi RS6
2 BMW M5
3 Mercedes-Benz V-Class
4 Mercedes-Benz SL
5 Porsche 911 996
6 Mercedes-Benz CL
7 Audi A6 Allroad
8 Landrover Range Rover
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class
10 Mercedes-Benz R-Class
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Best 10:
1 Ford Fiesta
2 Mitsubishi Lancer
3 Vauxhall Agila
4 Suzuki Alto
5 Toyota Aygo
6 Toyota Yaris
7 Volvo S40
8 Honda HR-V
9 Citroen Saxo
10 Mazda MX-5
Worst 10:
1 Audi RS6
2 BMW M5
3 Mercedes-Benz V-Class
4 Mercedes-Benz SL
5 Porsche 911 996
6 Mercedes-Benz CL
7 Audi A6 Allroad
8 Landrover Range Rover
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class
10 Mercedes-Benz R-Class
Trending Topics
02-01-13 | 10:49 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,459
Likes: 1
From: Makati, Philippines
This survey was done by Warranty Direct, whose official site also has rankings of overall reliability.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Worst 10:
1 Audi RS6
2 BMW M5
3 Mercedes-Benz V-Class
4 Mercedes-Benz SL
5 Porsche 911 996
6 Mercedes-Benz CL
7 Audi A6 Allroad
8 Landrover Range Rover
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class
10 Mercedes-Benz R-Class
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Worst 10:
1 Audi RS6
2 BMW M5
3 Mercedes-Benz V-Class
4 Mercedes-Benz SL
5 Porsche 911 996
6 Mercedes-Benz CL
7 Audi A6 Allroad
8 Landrover Range Rover
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class
10 Mercedes-Benz R-Class
And hang on, why is Porsche even there? AFAIK, out of all the German auto brands, Porsche should be the most reliable.
I can understand a VW being on that list...........but not a Porsche.
02-01-13 | 10:58 AM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 2
From: Ontario
This survey was done by Warranty Direct, whose official site also has rankings of overall reliability.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Best 10:
1 Ford Fiesta
2 Mitsubishi Lancer
3 Vauxhall Agila
4 Suzuki Alto
5 Toyota Aygo
6 Toyota Yaris
7 Volvo S40
8 Honda HR-V
9 Citroen Saxo
10 Mazda MX-5
Worst 10:
1 Audi RS6
2 BMW M5
3 Mercedes-Benz V-Class
4 Mercedes-Benz SL
5 Porsche 911 996
6 Mercedes-Benz CL
7 Audi A6 Allroad
8 Landrover Range Rover
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class
10 Mercedes-Benz R-Class
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Best 10:
1 Ford Fiesta
2 Mitsubishi Lancer
3 Vauxhall Agila
4 Suzuki Alto
5 Toyota Aygo
6 Toyota Yaris
7 Volvo S40
8 Honda HR-V
9 Citroen Saxo
10 Mazda MX-5
Worst 10:
1 Audi RS6
2 BMW M5
3 Mercedes-Benz V-Class
4 Mercedes-Benz SL
5 Porsche 911 996
6 Mercedes-Benz CL
7 Audi A6 Allroad
8 Landrover Range Rover
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class
10 Mercedes-Benz R-Class
02-01-13 | 11:00 AM
#10
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 0
From: CA
True, now that I took a look at how their reliability index is calculated. Their business is about warranties so to them reliability isn't about failure rates, but more about expected costs of warranties. So given two cars of the same reliability records, the more expensive one will have a worse reliability index score according to their calculation.
Last edited by ydooby; 02-01-13 at 11:05 AM.
02-01-13 | 11:01 AM
#11
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 0
From: NYC/ATL
The reason for engine failures is simple, people buy German luxury cars cause they think they are better, they drive them like they stole them and so that adds to the premature wear.
Engines across the board are high performance and delicate, let it warm up before you drop the pedal, no longer do we have the heavy duty engines that you can go WOT, on a cold winter morning.
Engines across the board are high performance and delicate, let it warm up before you drop the pedal, no longer do we have the heavy duty engines that you can go WOT, on a cold winter morning.
02-01-13 | 11:20 AM
#12
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,935
Likes: 164
you would be surprised maybe, but Audi and BMW and Mercedes all sell much better than Toyota in UK.
So that theory certainly does not stand :-).
It is most based on cars like 1 and 3 series, VW Golf/ Polo, Mercedes C class, Audi A3... these are the best selling cars in UK. Toyota and Honda are 9th and 13th best selling manufacturers.
02-01-13 | 11:36 AM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
Amidst the mass hysteria for turbocharged/supercharged cars by German automakers and the automotive media acting as uncritical cheerleaders for the German-led trend of force induction engines, there comes a sobering reminder that you can't always have your cake and eat it.
My take on this issue :
the Top 2 most reliable engines came from Honda and Toyota, probably due partly to them not turbocharging/supercharging their engines.
Besides the reliability aspect, force induction tends to give artificial non-progressive throttle response at best and significant turbo-lag at worst (when compared to a well implemented normal aspirated power/drive-train).
So to those who champion force-induction as the next automotive 2nd coming, realise that there's always a price to pay for that low-down torque and nice EPA fuel consumption figures.
My take on this issue :
the Top 2 most reliable engines came from Honda and Toyota, probably due partly to them not turbocharging/supercharging their engines.
Besides the reliability aspect, force induction tends to give artificial non-progressive throttle response at best and significant turbo-lag at worst (when compared to a well implemented normal aspirated power/drive-train).
So to those who champion force-induction as the next automotive 2nd coming, realise that there's always a price to pay for that low-down torque and nice EPA fuel consumption figures.
As for the article, it shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody that more complicated engines and cars are going to be less reliable. That's always been the case. I kinda chuckled at the first sentence - yeah who thought German cars were super reliable to begin with? UK based publication though so yeah...
02-01-13 | 11:59 AM
#14
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 6
From: TX
I just had a Ford Escape Ecoboost for 30 days as rental and I can attest that there was no artificial non-progressive boost or turbo lag anytime. Times have changed, and Ford has done a marvelous job with the ecoboost. I'll give credit where it is due.
02-01-13 | 01:13 PM
#15
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From: Singapore
No and no on the bolded points. The biggest thing missing in turbo engines is the nice crisp sharp throttle response you can get from nicely tuned NA engines. On pretty much any turbocharged engine these days, the turbo lag is there if you're picky and looking for it, but hardly an issue in normal or even aggressive driving. Can't speak for other automakers either, but the throttle control is nice and progressive and linear on both of our Bimmers. Both of them are very intuitive and easy to drive.
As for the article, it shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody that more complicated engines and cars are going to be less reliable. That's always been the case. I kinda chuckled at the first sentence - yeah who thought German cars were super reliable to begin with? UK based publication though so yeah...
As for the article, it shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody that more complicated engines and cars are going to be less reliable. That's always been the case. I kinda chuckled at the first sentence - yeah who thought German cars were super reliable to begin with? UK based publication though so yeah...
We should be applauding the most elegant and reliable solution rather than a needlessly complicated but unreliable solution to balancing performance versus fuel economy needs.
Complication in and of itself is not the desired endpoint. If a simple engine design gets the job done with less maintenance issues, that motor IS the superior motor .