SteVTEC

And I think the big luxury brands invading the $30-40k segment is a good move and will be successful this time around. You only need to look at the economy both in the U.S. and globally and the high unemployment rates to see that times are tough for just about everybody, and fewer people are going to be willing to spend $40-50k or more on cars these days. Heck, even I'm not. The misses and I splurged on our two Bimmers (w/MSRPs north of $50k) after going through some rough times. Love them both but not sure it's worth it to keep it up. Lower priced options keep me interested if I don't want to spend that much money again (I don't) and keeps them on my radar screen, which is exactly what they want. Sounds smart to me. The majority of what I enjoy about my 335i, the 320i has as standard. It's the DNA of the cars and their designs that agree with me. Don't need to splash out on zillions of pricey options or tons of power to get my money's worth. That's just icing on the cake.

mmarshall

Not everyone may agree with me, but here's my take:

This is where I think a lot of people (and today's manufacturers) are missing the mark. They confuse what IMO is a true "Luxury" car with luxury-sports-sedans. Not that there's anything wrong with luxury sports sedans (for people who actually want that type of car), but a true luxury car, IMO, doesn't make any sporting pretensions. Magic-carpet ride-comfort, isolation from the road, interior room, wood trim and/or other luxury interior materials, and a low noise-level are placed first and always first, while handling/steering response is a secondary consideration. Guess what? Those type of cars, for the most part, simply don't exist anymore in new-car showrooms...especially wth the demise of the Cadillac DTS/DeVille, Lincoln Town Car, Buick Lucerne, and the superb 4Gen Lexus ES350. Most of what are called luxury cars today have, in fact, become luxury-sports-sedans, due to low-profile tires, stiffer suspension (even in adjustable-mode-suspension cars), more sport-oriented trim, and an increasing obsession with quick steering-response. Again, there's nothing wrong with that in principle (for those who want it), but it has pretty much taken over the mainstream auto design....to the point that there are almost none of what I would call truly smooth-riding cars left. The Mercedes S-Class and Lexus LS460 are probably the smoothest of the remaining cars(though I haven't sampled a Rolls-Royce or LS600H). The LS460 is truly outstanding in noise-control and quietness.....it is close to what I would call a true luxury car, though its tires are now low-profile than in the past and have slightly affected the ride. Among small cars, the Buick Verano probably comes closest to the luxury-car ideal, especially in noise-control, although the back seat is cramped and its Ecotec 4-cylinder is not as refined as larger engines. The ES350 and Buick LaCrosse lost some former ride-smoothness in their latest versions due to now-stiffer tires and suspensions, but both are now, like BVMWs, good ride/handling compromises for those who want it.

If you guys will believe it (and I'm not kidding), one of the smoothest-riding vehicles I myself have sampled lately is a pickup truck ......(the new Dodge Ram).

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

with our economy rapidly being destroyed and disposable income shrinking due to increased taxes, healthcare costs, education costs, etc., luxury makes have no choice but to go down market to get new people into their brands.

this will continue...

mmarshall

As far as "downmarket" is concerned, the shrinking of vehicle-cost is one thing, but the actual shrinking of luxury vehicle-size is quite another...and is not new at all. In 1975-76, for example, Cadillac introduced the mid-sized Seville to try and compete with the growing popularity of the mid-sized (by American standards) Mercedes sedans and coupes. Barely a year later, the entire Cadillac fleet was redesigned and shrunk-down in GM's first big wave of downsizing (more were to follow). We also saw it shortly after, of course, from Lincoln and Chrysler/Imperial. Later, with the introduction of Japanese luxury-brands, the Acura legand, Infiniti Q45, and Lexus LS400 were also followed by smaller models to sell alongside the big flagships.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

You can get a lot of car for $30k, or you can get very little car for $30k.

Case in point: a loaded Prius vs. a bare-bones CT200h.

mmarshall

Welcome back. Haven't seen you post much lately.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

I'm a lurker.

Stealthy and ninja-esque.

Infra

iTrader: (1)

Are we forgetting that the IS250 debuted at ~$31,700 and stayed there for several years?

Sure that's a little more in 2013 dollars, but the $30k luxury marque car is nothing new.

CDNROCKIES

The 320i is a perfect example. We already have it up here. Terrible car. Just like the C230 or a base A4. B2000 or X1 are equally awful. Every time they give us a X1 or 320 as a loaner we can't believe what people are willing to pay for a badge.

Cheap plastic, cloth seats, lack of actual luxury options, etc. are why they are pseudo-luxury. Add the options in and all of a sudden they aren't any sort of bargain. If you're happy with the handling and/or the engine kudos to you, but that has nothing to do with what would define luxury. When you can get a Camry or Accord for the same price with double the included options for the same price, something is wrong. Couple that with terrible gas mileage, questionable reliability and terrible resale/depreciation and it doesn't make much sense.

mmarshall

I don't see where a car has to have genuine leather seats to be considered luxurious....although I agree that the use of some so-called imitation leathers varies quite a bit, with some of them having obvious cheapness, and others (like the NuLuxe used on the Lexus CT200h) being excellent.

Nor does a car having cloth seats necessarily mean that it is not luxurious either. I still remember some of the luxury/velour/brocade-cloth interiors of 60/70s American luxury-cars......man, those seats were NICE.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

^^^

LOL!

Mike, you crack me up!!

Beanbags look firmer!!

I would fall asleep, or roll off the seat during a turn, if I had those in my car!

mmarshall

Come on, Phil....rolling off those seats was a non-issue. Those cars couldn't turn fast enough to roll you off. And the belts/harnesses still held you in.

But, all kidding aside, the original point I was making, though, was, despite lack of side-suport, those seats didn't have to use leather to be luxurious and comfortable. I still stand by that opinion.

I8ABMR

30K for a luxury car seems a bit low. A honda Accord can get to over 30k. Id would say true luxury starts closer to 40-50k.

mmarshall

Depends on the manufacturer....but, in general, I agree...you're correct.

ntran18

iTrader: (27)

I would agree that 30k is the lowest that you can go if you were to market/brand it as 'luxury'.