Tesla accuses New York Times of faking a Model S road test: Big Oil dollars at work?
#76
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it's definitely an "early adopter's" vehicle, so it's not perfect. it hasn't had a century of refinement and trial-and-error like combustion engine cars.
so it's got a ways to go and it's not for most people, but all the issues and successes learned will only make it better over time, provided tesla doesn't run out of money, and that seems unlikely. although last time i checked, their stock price was absurdly high.![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
the nyt's reporter may have changed the 'truth' to evade his rushing the test, not doing the test properly, and probably rushing for an editorial deadline.
but yeah, Allen's right - plenty of stupidity to go around here. and musk is not the best p.r. person. he prefers only talking to true believers.
so it's got a ways to go and it's not for most people, but all the issues and successes learned will only make it better over time, provided tesla doesn't run out of money, and that seems unlikely. although last time i checked, their stock price was absurdly high.
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the nyt's reporter may have changed the 'truth' to evade his rushing the test, not doing the test properly, and probably rushing for an editorial deadline.
but yeah, Allen's right - plenty of stupidity to go around here. and musk is not the best p.r. person. he prefers only talking to true believers.
The EV i drove (for about 2 weeks) had a range of approx 100 miles on a full charge. I live 30 miles from work, so it was a 60 mile drive each day. I would take it home on a full charge, and bring it back with approx half a charge left. I'd have to leave it plugged in for about 5 hours to get it back to full charge, depending on the temperature. It was always in the back of my mind that I had a limited amount of charge left, and I made sure to look up local charging stations, just in-case. (at the time, i didn't have anywhere to plug mine in at home)
Using the radio, headlights/foglamps, heater, etc would drain the battery much quicker than not using any of them. Driving faster than 60mph would also drain the battery, noticeably faster. I typically would leave the radio on, but the display on the nav screen was off. I'd have the heater on just to warm up the car a bit, but then turn it off after maybe 5-10 minutes. I had to think about things that I normally take for granted in a gas vehicle.
EVs certainly aren't for everybody, and they can be hard to work with, but I think they will only get better with time. Or at least, I hope
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#77
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New York Times admits Tesla Model S writer didn't use "good judgment"
And, lo, in the case of John Broder vs. Elon Musk, The New York Times is admitting defeat. A little bit. Sort of.
Yesterday, the NYT's public editor, Margaret Sullivan, wrote the official Times response to the very public dispute between the newspaper's reporter, John Broder – who wrote a story about how a Tesla Model S failed him on a trip up the east coast – and Tesla CEO Elon Musk, who called that original story a fake and then dumped a bunch of data from the car's log to show why he used that word. Editor Sullivan admits the drive "did not go well." In the aftermath, she says she tried to look at the facts in an unbiased fashion, eventually determining that Broder was not precise enough at times and did "not especially" use "good judgment along the way." Musk is at fault, too, she says, for using the car's driving logs "in the most damaging (and sometimes quite misleading) ways possible, as he defended his vehicle's reputation." Sullivan also says she believes Broder, "took on the test drive in good faith, and told the story as he experienced it" even as he "left himself open to valid criticism by taking what seem to be casual and imprecise notes along the journey."
This whole story, of course, is really about the fact that electric vehicles suffer a drop in range in cold weather, which matters more than in normal cars since there is less range to begin with (not to mention it takes longer to refuel an EV's energy reserves than it does its liquid-fueled counterparts). There are a number of factors in play, but Tesla has said range drop in the Model S is about 10 percent (which, interestingly enough, is about the same as what vehicles powered by gasoline engines suffer in such weather).
Consumer Reports has an interesting article up about learning how to adjust to cold-weather changes in its Model S, including a tale similar to Broder's about running the car down to the "charge now" warning screen, but the institute managed to make it to their destination. CR writes, "To its credit, the Model S delivered 176 miles from a full charge in cold weather – considerably more than any other EV on the planet. While it was in line with what the car predicted, it proved well short of the rated 240 miles the car promised when I started, let alone the 265 estimated by the EPA or the 300 touted by Tesla."
Meanwhile, over in take-a-step-back-ville, Grist suggests that the entire public dispute is a "sideshow" and that:
It is probably true that electric cars will never be able to replace gas cars, if the cars themselves – the widgets – are the only thing we replace. The entire system was designed and built around ICE cars. Turns out it's difficult to build a luxurious, two-ton armored tank that can travel 300 miles on a quick-charging battery pack. The problem, however, is not merely that our cars consume too much oil. It's that our transportation system consumes too much oil. A better system won't merely involve better cars, it will involve driving less, telecommuting more, using more public transportation, sharing cars, making cars smarter, and building more and better electrical infrastructure.
This story is far from over, even though the facts and he-said/he-said nature of the situation seem to be solidifying. Late tomorrow, Tesla will hold its quarterly earnings call, and we're going to bet this incident will come up. One interesting tidbit we learned in a preview article of that call is that Musk earns only $33,000 a year from his part-time CEO role at Tesla (he splits his time between Tesla and SpaceX). No one ever said changing the way the world drives was going to be easy... or instantly profitable.
Yesterday, the NYT's public editor, Margaret Sullivan, wrote the official Times response to the very public dispute between the newspaper's reporter, John Broder – who wrote a story about how a Tesla Model S failed him on a trip up the east coast – and Tesla CEO Elon Musk, who called that original story a fake and then dumped a bunch of data from the car's log to show why he used that word. Editor Sullivan admits the drive "did not go well." In the aftermath, she says she tried to look at the facts in an unbiased fashion, eventually determining that Broder was not precise enough at times and did "not especially" use "good judgment along the way." Musk is at fault, too, she says, for using the car's driving logs "in the most damaging (and sometimes quite misleading) ways possible, as he defended his vehicle's reputation." Sullivan also says she believes Broder, "took on the test drive in good faith, and told the story as he experienced it" even as he "left himself open to valid criticism by taking what seem to be casual and imprecise notes along the journey."
This whole story, of course, is really about the fact that electric vehicles suffer a drop in range in cold weather, which matters more than in normal cars since there is less range to begin with (not to mention it takes longer to refuel an EV's energy reserves than it does its liquid-fueled counterparts). There are a number of factors in play, but Tesla has said range drop in the Model S is about 10 percent (which, interestingly enough, is about the same as what vehicles powered by gasoline engines suffer in such weather).
Consumer Reports has an interesting article up about learning how to adjust to cold-weather changes in its Model S, including a tale similar to Broder's about running the car down to the "charge now" warning screen, but the institute managed to make it to their destination. CR writes, "To its credit, the Model S delivered 176 miles from a full charge in cold weather – considerably more than any other EV on the planet. While it was in line with what the car predicted, it proved well short of the rated 240 miles the car promised when I started, let alone the 265 estimated by the EPA or the 300 touted by Tesla."
Meanwhile, over in take-a-step-back-ville, Grist suggests that the entire public dispute is a "sideshow" and that:
It is probably true that electric cars will never be able to replace gas cars, if the cars themselves – the widgets – are the only thing we replace. The entire system was designed and built around ICE cars. Turns out it's difficult to build a luxurious, two-ton armored tank that can travel 300 miles on a quick-charging battery pack. The problem, however, is not merely that our cars consume too much oil. It's that our transportation system consumes too much oil. A better system won't merely involve better cars, it will involve driving less, telecommuting more, using more public transportation, sharing cars, making cars smarter, and building more and better electrical infrastructure.
This story is far from over, even though the facts and he-said/he-said nature of the situation seem to be solidifying. Late tomorrow, Tesla will hold its quarterly earnings call, and we're going to bet this incident will come up. One interesting tidbit we learned in a preview article of that call is that Musk earns only $33,000 a year from his part-time CEO role at Tesla (he splits his time between Tesla and SpaceX). No one ever said changing the way the world drives was going to be easy... or instantly profitable.
#78
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Still... this is a pain and a problem for these cars. I really hate to think how bad it'll be for the owners when the batteries need replacement every few years... ugh
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Given all the new information we've gotten with respect to the test, I have to disagree completely. It's hard to believe Broder 'didn't do the test properly' when most of his actions were a direct result of instructions he got over the phone from Tesla staff. As I mentioned above, IMO the real assault on truth by the NYT was covering up for Tesla. The original article doesn't mention that the NYT felt compelled to submit their drive plan to Tesla for vetting, or that Tesla had a full team of engineers were constantly monitoring telemetry from the drive, or that Broder called Tesla ~12 times during the test for technical support. And we are learning new things now from other articles, like Tesla doing live firmware updates on test cars to try to fix range issues. It's just amazing the PR bubble Tesla has created. How much more stuff are we not hearing about? Most of the reports we read don't mention anything, but from the NYT and others, we know it's there.
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while i'm impressed by what tesla has accomplished, and elon musk is a pretty amazing guy especially for spacex, there's something i find creepy about him, like he's not being honest, or actually that he's seething with rage underneath - he's always making thinly veiled comments about politics and ruining the planet and a general contempt for humanity.
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#81
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Of course, battery adoption issues such as with the Boeing 787 and its Lithium-ion batteries also demonstrate the difficulties in advancing battery technology.
#82
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The writer should have stuck to his original topic, charging stations and status of new generation charging devices. Instead, he ran into range issues, and thought he had a better story, but didn't have the notes and documentation to back it up. Tesla on the other hand, had telemetry data. Both parties mishandled the outcome once the article was published.
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New York Times admits Tesla Model S writer didn't use "good judgment"[/SIZE]
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/02/19...-didnt-use-go/
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Shady writer is getting walked to the plank as the story unfoldes and it's only a matter of time they pull the wood out under his feet.
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#84
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Musk says New York Times debacle may have cost Tesla $100 million
![](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/02/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-bloomberg-tv.jpg)
Despite the old chestnut that there's no such thing as bad publicity, there's always a cost incurred – sometimes it's hidden, and sometimes it's front and center. Enigmatic Tesla CEO Elon Musk seems to think his company's now-infamous Model S range dustup with The New York Times is falling squarely into the latter category. According to Musk, fallout from the back-and-forth battle over the newspaper's cold-weather road trip story may have decimated Tesla's stock value by as much as $100 million. Musk believes the report resulted in a lot of cancelled orders, probably costing Tesla "a few hundred" Model S purchases.
According to the report, Tesla's shares have tumbled some 12 percent (going from $39.24 to $34.38) since the report was published. Bloomberg further notes that the company's market capitalization has skidded by around $553 million over that same period. With the company's stock-market value pegged at $3.91 billion, $100m represents a not insignificant chunk of money to Tesla.
So how does Musk feel about embattled Times writer John Broder, whose controversial report he previously called "fake"? During the interview with Bloomberg TV, which you can watch below, Musk opines, "I don't think it should be the end of his career – I don't even think necessarily he should be fired – but I do think he fudged an article." No word has surfaced about any actions taken against Broder after the Times' public editor admitted he did "not especially" exercise "good judgement" in the course of his reporting.
There's a lot of interesting ground covered in the Musk interview, including a discussion on the impact of early adopters on Model S sales, as well as how demand might be affected if the federal $7,500 tax credit were to end.
Source and Video:
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/26/m...ost-tesla-100/
#85
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Originally Posted by autoblog
According to Musk, fallout from the back-and-forth battle over the newspaper's cold-weather road trip story may have decimated Tesla's stock value by as much as $100 million.
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As I said before, this whole thing was a PR nightmare for Tesla. That nightmare started because of the way that Musk decided to handle the situation. By directly (and recklessly) attacking Broder's credibility, he forced Broder's hand in revealing how much direct support from Tesla was involved in the NYT road test, how NYT actually demonstrated pro-Tesla bias in failing to report that involvement, and how much of Broder's issues were actually Tesla's fault.
I also think it's amazing that people still blame the NYT/Broder for anti-Tesla bias or shoddy reporting.
Last edited by gengar; 02-27-13 at 01:46 PM.
#86
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And how much of that was Musk's fault? ![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
As I said before, this whole thing was a PR nightmare for Tesla. That nightmare started because of the way that Musk decided to handle the situation. By directly (and recklessly) attacking Broder's credibility, he forced Broder's hand in revealing how much direct support from Tesla was involved in the NYT road test, how NYT actually demonstrated pro-Tesla bias in failing to report that involvement, and how much of Broder's issues were actually Tesla's fault.
I also think it's amazing that people still blame the NYT/Broder for anti-Tesla bias or shoddy reporting.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
As I said before, this whole thing was a PR nightmare for Tesla. That nightmare started because of the way that Musk decided to handle the situation. By directly (and recklessly) attacking Broder's credibility, he forced Broder's hand in revealing how much direct support from Tesla was involved in the NYT road test, how NYT actually demonstrated pro-Tesla bias in failing to report that involvement, and how much of Broder's issues were actually Tesla's fault.
I also think it's amazing that people still blame the NYT/Broder for anti-Tesla bias or shoddy reporting.
#87
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if tesla cars are great, they'll get beyond one cluster-review.
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Musk vows to repay Tesla's federal loans in five years, not ten
![](http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2013/02/teslamodels-1361984735.jpg)
Tesla Chief Elon Musk says his company will repay its US Department of Energy loans within five years, Automotive News reports. That's way, way ahead of the 10-year deadline the electric-vehicle maker was originally given to pay back the $465-million loan it got from the feds.
Musk says better-than-expected results are responsible for cutting the planned payback time in half, something that had been talked about late last year. Earlier this month, Musk said the first-quarter of 2013 will be Tesla's first profitable one. The company, which recently ramped up to its full production capacity of 400 Model S sedans a week, delivered about 2,400 of them during the fourth quarter, making it the fourth most-popular US plug-in car in that time frame.
Tesla will evidently speed up its repayment with no thanks to the The New York Times, which caused an uproar when it reported that the Model S' single-charge range was far less than advertised. Musk disputed the report, which was then called into question by other publications and the Times' own public editor. Musk estimated that the original article cut Tesla's stock value by as much as $100 million and may have swayed "a few hundred" into canceling orders for their new electric car.
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/02/27...years-not-ten/