From E46 M3 to ISF and now back to E90 M3...Impressions
03-06-13, 02:37 AM
#20
M3
I literally have that exact car at our shop right now for some exhaust leak repairs. It's a 2010 model with dct trans. I will say driving that car back to back with my F highlights the differences between the two brands. The dct trans does shift faster than ours in the F. It is a direct and solid feel almost as if the transmission is bolted directly to the body without rubber mounts. You can tell there is no lazy heavy torque converter in the system to weight and slow things down. Also the response to driver inputs wether it be additional throttle or shifting of the paddles are immediate. Lexus really could learn a thing or two when it comes to electronic throttle actuation from BMW. Our cars have a delay when you hit the throttle (albeit improved when the sport button is utilized) this delay is non existent in the m3. Our interiors are far superior to the M, that goes without saying. Reliability is hands down on our side. As sad as it is to say BMW haven't built a reliable vehicle since the 90's IMHO, their electronics suck, and given the attributes stated above I feel fairly confident that long term reliability of the driveline components will suffer. All in all I'll still take our cars over the m3, and I'll bet that Lexus will improve our future F's
03-06-13, 12:19 PM
#21
And yes, I commute from Newark to Oakland everyday in my F so I see everything on 880! Either way, NICE write up... I'd love to get into a E90 but I simply can't afford it.
03-06-13, 08:59 PM
#23
Well the DCT is a real dual clutch manual tranny so it acts like a manual with the computer operating the clutch so it will roll back just like a manual with no gas. First time I drove it was kind of odd but once you get used to how it works, it's definitely no automatic tranny that has a "D" mode. Irony is I drove the M3 DCT back to back with my friend's F-car and they actually react the same way. On the F-car you have "Sport", "Race" selectable from this cool red button on the bottom right of the steering wheel. On the left you can adjust the damper setting also on the fly. The M3 does lighting fast upshifts and the revs climb really fast but nowhere near as quick as the F-car. My buddy told me to do a 30mph rolling start in 2nd gear and then go WOT, the time it took to go from 30-120 was literally a blink of an eye! We timed it in both the F-car and M3, he said this is how you measure a car's true potential but honestly I was having too much fun just enjoying the exhaust note in the Ferrari to care how fast we were going.
On the ISF, the 8-speed auto is very smart and the downshifts are right on key, however it is essentially a smart "Auto" tranny and reacts just like any normal automatic car. It's hard to compare a DCT to a Auto as they are just two different technologies. Go drive a P-car with their PDK and you will understand this right away
On the ISF, the 8-speed auto is very smart and the downshifts are right on key, however it is essentially a smart "Auto" tranny and reacts just like any normal automatic car. It's hard to compare a DCT to a Auto as they are just two different technologies. Go drive a P-car with their PDK and you will understand this right away
In day to day driving, the 8 speed is superior to PDK. Only in true RACE mode might somebody get the benefit of the PDK/DCT over the 8 speed.
Whenever I read reviews of the 8 speed, it's always so negative when I really think it is probably the best if not one of the best automatic transmissions in the world! A DCT or PDK is just another automatic transmission and something tells me the clutch won't last as long as the torque converter - but I'll let you guys know in another 10 years or so on that. LOL
03-07-13, 03:02 PM
#24
The fuel consumption has to do with having less gears, gear ratios and of course a smaller displacement engine.
The ISF gets away from not having a gas guzzler tax due to the 8 speeds gear box (Jermey Clarkson said that's "too many gears", but I think it's not).
You can drive 80 MPH in 8th gear and the engine is spinning at 2,000 RPM's. The last car I was in that could do that was a 1995 Mustang GT 5.0L (pushrod V8, 5 speed).
Another car tha actually excels in MPG compared to its large engine size is the Corvette Z06, large engine with lots of torque and very tall gears.
Smaller engines don't always mean better fuel economy.
You can put a K&N drop in air filter, it may help a little bit.
The ISF gets away from not having a gas guzzler tax due to the 8 speeds gear box (Jermey Clarkson said that's "too many gears", but I think it's not).
You can drive 80 MPH in 8th gear and the engine is spinning at 2,000 RPM's. The last car I was in that could do that was a 1995 Mustang GT 5.0L (pushrod V8, 5 speed).
Another car tha actually excels in MPG compared to its large engine size is the Corvette Z06, large engine with lots of torque and very tall gears.
Smaller engines don't always mean better fuel economy.
You can put a K&N drop in air filter, it may help a little bit.
03-07-13, 04:00 PM
#25
I agree the ISF 8-speed auto is probably the better tranny in 90% of the DD we do, it just seems more efficient with the 8 different gears. The M3 feels more aggressively geared but we pay for it at the pump.
Might try the Intake mod and also some RPI scoops to see if that helps increase the MPG a bit.
No pictures of the E90 M3 just yet worthy to post but I'll add a few shots of my previous two cars in first post shortly.
Might try the Intake mod and also some RPI scoops to see if that helps increase the MPG a bit.
No pictures of the E90 M3 just yet worthy to post but I'll add a few shots of my previous two cars in first post shortly.
03-07-13, 04:39 PM
#26
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (20)
PDK is great, but the IS-F 8 Speed is great also. The 8 speed is better around parking lot maneuvers and smoother (doesn't roll back). On fully manual mode, the 8 speed might be .025 or less seconds slower per shift than a PDK or DCT but I don't think it'll make any difference short of a dragstrip (I might have broken Caymandive's 11.91 if I had PDK) On a track, the 8 speed IS-F is awesome. At high rpm/load it shifts quickly and smoothly and downshifts plenty fast enough.
In day to day driving, the 8 speed is superior to PDK. Only in true RACE mode might somebody get the benefit of the PDK/DCT over the 8 speed.
Whenever I read reviews of the 8 speed, it's always so negative when I really think it is probably the best if not one of the best automatic transmissions in the world! A DCT or PDK is just another automatic transmission and something tells me the clutch won't last as long as the torque converter - but I'll let you guys know in another 10 years or so on that. LOL
In day to day driving, the 8 speed is superior to PDK. Only in true RACE mode might somebody get the benefit of the PDK/DCT over the 8 speed.
Whenever I read reviews of the 8 speed, it's always so negative when I really think it is probably the best if not one of the best automatic transmissions in the world! A DCT or PDK is just another automatic transmission and something tells me the clutch won't last as long as the torque converter - but I'll let you guys know in another 10 years or so on that. LOL
03-09-13, 09:30 PM
#28
Bingo. if you driven both the isf and another car with smg, dct, pdk, its easy to see why the lexus tranny gets up to traffic speed smoother and quicker with daily driving and no hesitation. the difference is night and day with me. PDK /DCTis nicer at WOT though, feels sporty, direct, and gives an overall better racing experience .
The more I drive the DCT in auto mode, especially in traffic, I realized that it's not the best tranny for this type of environment. The ISF tranny is silky smooth and performs effortlessly in comparison.
I guess this is the trade-off for faster performance in track type situations. I'm not complaining since I love the M3 and the lines on this car is just so muscular and aggressive it's hard not to love it. Guess time will tell.
I know this is not the ideal picture but snapped this after a bathe earlier today:
