SW17LS

LOL, what this really comes down to is snobbery. Its cool on the forums to bash on the ES because its "not a real Lexus" blah blah blah. The bottom line is as I have said, without the ES and RX...you would have no IS. No GS. Certainly no LFA. The LS would not have been able to be moved upmarket (remember, when it came out it was cheap) because the entry level Lexus buyer would not have had the ES to fill the need. These are the volume cash cow vehicles for Lexus. Unless they are going to dramatically downsize the brand, dealer footprint, etc, they simply could not handle the loss in sales volume and maintain the presence they have now. Bear in mind the average ES price is probably around $41k. Average GS price is probably around $50-52k. How cheap can a 4 cyl GS really be? I don't think its reasonable to expect that Lexus can offer a smaller vehicle for more money to a buyer who doesn't care about handling or "exclusive platforms", and sell as many cars. That buyer is going to wind up in a Buick Lucerne, or Lincoln MKS. Perhaps in an Avalon, but even if every Lexus ES buyer bought an Avalon, that wouldn't help Lexus. You're still going to loose a huge number of customers for the brand, for the dealer, the brand would go from 1st place to third.

You guys talk as if the ES is just a rebadged Camry, well that hasn't been true since the ES250. The car now shares the same basic platform and powertrain with the Avalon, but dimensions are different, every body panel and interior panel are different. Driving dynamics and ride are different. I think its awful what they have done to the car in terms of decontenting and cost cutting, but the fact remains:

The ES is Lexus Its the only car other than the LS that is original to the brand. Its hugely successful, hugely profitable, its in an all new iteration that Lexus invested a lot on, including moving it to a different platform and development of a hybrid variant. Regardless of what Motor Trend says, they are not going to can it now. Regardless of how superior it makes you all feel that you don't have an ES, the ES fills its job. Look at me, I became enamnoured with Lexus because of my Dad's LS. So, I bought what was as similar and what I could afford, an ES. Drove it for 7 years...bought another one. Now I've moved up to the GS. Now that I'm here, I'm not going back, I'l drive the GS and then maybe wind up in an LS of my own.

Thats the whole point of entry level models.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Boy did we get screwed then. They didn't invest nearly enough into that interior which barely looks and feels premium let alone luxury. Once again the efforts put into the ES are a slap in the faces to consumers who are looking for a "Luxury" car.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

I voted NO.

and isn't this a repost from this?

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-es-model.html

SW17LS

I agree that they skimped on the interior in a lot of ways that are frustrating, which is what drove me and I know others to the GS this time. However, there are a lot of new improvements to the ES that are significant, its on the Avalon platform, much more rear legroom, the hybrid version and the excellent economy it gets.

When you compare it to other vehicles in that class, its pretty comparable in terms of interior quality unfortunately, it just used to be a big step up. I think the standout there now is the Hyundai Genesis.

The most important thing though is to remember...it sells. I see a lot of 2013 ES's out there, however frustrated we may be with the new ES' interior, people are buying it...there is no disputing that. Just go into the 2013 ES forums, they hate me in there because I complain about the interior of the new ES. There are lots of very happy 2013 ES owners in there.

Lexus would not have spent the time developing the new ES if they were just going to cancel the model. It would be like renovating your house before you tore it down.

And you didn't get screwed. Are you telling me that you would trade your IS in on an ES even if the interior were higher quality? You're not an ES buyer...

Vh_Supra26

iTrader: (1)

Idk, I say just don't believe everything you read on the internet...

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Bonjour...

xsh0tya

But they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true....

LexBob2

Where did you hear that?

ydooby

Dunno about him, but I heard that on the Internet.

UDel

This shows you don't even know what dilutes a brand, if the CT or something more entry level/lower end is a "huge success" and sells well and people see them on the road all the time then that is the exact scenario that would or could dilute a brand. If the CT did not sell in very high numbers like the HS and was never seen then it would be less likely to dilute a brand. The BMW and Mercedes low priced hatches did not dilute the brand because they were not popular and did not sell well, if they were a big success and were seen everywhere they could dilute the brands but BMW/Mercedes have enough high end offerings and history to probably prevent that.


You misunderstood or jumped to conclusions again, I have never made comments or started threads complaining that the CT dilutes the brand, I did say a less expensive fwd 4 cyl hatch like the CT in my opinion would dilute the brand over the ES when it comes to talking about models diluting brands. The ES has always belonged in the Lexus lineup and in my opinion does not dilute the brand especially considering how many lower powered 4 cylinders are in the luxury market now and how Mercedes and BMW will have smaller less expensive fwd cars in their lineups. If Lexus has success selling the CT, I have no issue with it, I don't think it dilutes the brand but to me if we are talking about models that may dilute a brand a lower priced fwd 4cyl hybrid hatch that takes 10-11 seconds to 0-60 dilutes the brand more then a more expensive, larger, quicker, more powerful fwd V6 sedan that has always been in the lineup.

I care about the car, not where it is built or what it is built alongside. The TL has never suffered quality/build issues being built in the US, the ES is generally not perceived as being superior in quality above the TL either especially with the current and last generation that have their issues and downgraded quality of interiors which you read about plenty on CL. If you think made in Japan is so great then you should be impressed that the RLX continues to be built in Japan and not the US then right?

ydooby

The G competes with the IS and the M competes with the GS. The G and the M do not compete with each other, unlike the ES vs. the GS.

Much like the ES we're talking about here though, Infiniti did cancel the I35, an upscale version of the Maxima badged as the Cefiro in JDM, in order to focus on selling more G's and M's. Where they fail though is to follow through with a worthy flagship sedan.

SW17LS

I think if we're talking about sales success Infiniti is a poor example of a roadmap for where we would like to see Lexus go.

ydooby

That's why I used BMW and Mercedes as examples in all my earlier posts. They do not need something like the ES or the I in order to "fill the gap" between the 3 and the 5, and between the C and the E and to be successful in all of these models. And until they've fully built up their premium brand image they had resisted introducing models based on non-premium platforms here.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

To me,the G 37 sedan is 8" longer than the IS and in the same class as the ES.
I was joking about Infinity doing away with the G37 so M's would sell so much more like some feel getting rid of the ES would bring the GS sales up so much.

ydooby

Despite the size difference everyone I know and every review I've read have put the G and the IS in the same class, not the G and the ES, due to their similarities in pricing and characteristics.

Like I said, the I is Infiniti's ES, not the G. But of course, since the I was cancelled, the ES does compete with the G and the M, much like it competes with the IS and the GS (and 3/5, C/E), for people looking for entry luxury sedans and those looking for midsize luxury sedans, respectively.