The biggest change we may see in the future is production MIGHT be moved to the U.S.

Other than that I doubt the ES is going away any time soon.

 

The ES will definitely be made in Kentucky with the Avalon in the near future.

 

Correct, production is going to come here at some point...

 

just saw another 'command PERFORMANCE' ad on tv. it only showed the ES with voice over declaring it 'stunning'.

it was similar to this one:
http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7IKc/lexus-co...ent-look-twice

kinda not surprising average buyers think this is the PERFORMANCE model and overlook the gs!

 

Oh hell nah. Lexus better not cancel the ES. The ES has come such a long way since the beginnings of the 1ES and 1LS way back at the end of 1989.

The ES outlived the Infiniti I30/I35 one of it's true competitor. Now the ES stands alone. Sure it's an odd ball but it sells well outselling the IS, GS, LS, CT and every other Lexus except the RX.

China even has a greater choice with the ES 250, ES 350 and ES 300h. China also greater choices in other Lexus models as well but that's another thread topic.

I always wondered it Lexus would expand the ES line but since way too many people on Club Lexus dislike the ES that's not gonna happen anytime soon...

 

................Females don't like Beetle Convertibles.
................Arnold Shwarzneggar doesn't like Hummers.
................Soccer-Moms don't like Minivans.
................Auto-mags don't like the Mazda Miata.
................Ranchers don't like pickup trucks.
................Older people don't like Buicks.
................Aggressive drivers don't like Mustangs.
................Tree-Huggers don't like the Prius.

and.....................

................Club Lexus doesn't like Lexuses.

 

So then, what's your definition of a Tier-1? Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Acura, Cadillac, Lincoln, Infiniti, Maserati, Jaguar, Land Rover, and, of course, Lexus...........all of these companies market and sell vehicles the same size (or smaller) than the ES. Even Aston Martin, a classic luxury/GT brand, markets the Cygnet, essentially a redone Smart-for-Two.

 

** Toyota iQ

 

That is quite possibly the worst angle I've ever seen on this car

 

Actually, the Aston Martin Cygnet is a dressed up Toyota/Scion iQ, not a smart fortwo, which is worse, since the smart fortwo is a least a Mercedes-Benz brand.


I guess Mercedes-Benz is NOT a Tier 1 luxury brand because they sell a lot of FWD models. The compact FWD B-Class, although not available in the USA has been available in Canada for a number of years, and it is selling quite well. A new generation of B-Class is coming, based upon the latest sub-compact FWD A-Class, which will be offered in the USA.

Mercedes-Benz claims that the new-generation A- and B-Class models are meant to compete with the soon-to-come (sub-)compact FWD, smaller-than-1 Series BMWs. So I guess that BMW is not a Tier 1 luxury brand either.

(Mercedes-Benz has not been a Tier 1 brand for 30 years now, since the introduction in 1983 of the Baby Benz, the 190, the predecessor to the current C-Class. The predictions at the time were that the compact Mercedes would spell its death as a luxury car maker.)

And we already know that Audis are not Tier 1 luxury cars either, since they are not much more than dressed-up Volkswagens. The A3, with its transversely-mounted FWD design is quite well-known as a dressed up VW Golf (!) just as the ES is nothing more than a dressed up, lowly Camry. By extension, the current-day Bentley Continentals cannot be classed as real premium cars either because they come with lowly Audi quattro drivetrains.

 

i posted this sometime ago, and i would like to post the same comment again.

think way back when lexus first introduced, what was the line up? LS and ES. those two brand defined Lexus and its riding characteristic known today (and RX followed the same principle and was hugely successful). the introduction of GS was really something unexpected out of Lexus, the 2nd Gen GS was the most sporty Luxury car at the time.

fast forward to today (well, let's just say 2006-2011 because the New ES seems to be watered down somewhat), the most comfortable car in the lexus line up are LS, RX and ES. those who want lexus for what it known for will go with one of those 3. those who want sporty version will go with GS/IS (in which i would like to ask why not just got 3/5/ or C/E unless you are dieheart lexus fan?)

i don't think Lexus should, and will ever discontinue the ES in the foreseeable future. that's like asking BMW to kill the 3 series because M3 exist.

 

Sigh. What you guys don't understand is that, among tier-1 luxury car makers, Lexus is the only one whose sales is dominated by a car based on a downmarket platform. The ES is the only premium-badged car based on a non-premium platform that not only competes directly with the premium offerings from the same brand, but overshadows them. That's where the problem lies. It exists at the cost of the GS and the IS because the ES simply overlaps with them in size and in price. When a premium brand is dominated by a car based on a downmarket platform, it cheapens the brand image, and limits the possibility of expanding their premium models with more interesting variants because they won't sell in enough quantities to make the business case valid.

Of course, by itself the ES is certainly a fine car for what it is and how much it is and there definitely is a market for it, but for the long-term good of the growth of Lexus's brand value Lexus needs to let go of it in order to let their premium-engineered cars that are developed to be a Lexus take the center stage, and not let a car whose platform and powertrain are 100% taken straight from their downmarket division dominate.Separate R&D? Until they cancel the ES you're kidding yourself. But again, sharing R&D itself is actually a good thing. It's when they allow a car sharing a platform engineered and intended for downmarket use to dominate their premium brand and overshadow their properly premium-engineered models that it becomes a problem.

OK I'm done with this thread. I've repeated my points for enough times. If any of you guys still don't get it let's just agree to disagree.

 

Thanks, guys. Yes, that was a typo. I meant the Scion/Toyota iQ.

But my point, obviously, was that if Aston, being a marketer of classic GT machines that sell in the triple-digits, can also do a micro-car like the Cygnet, then, IMO, it's hard to claim, like one poster did, that Lexus cannot be a "Tier-1" manufacturer for selling the much larger ES.

 

(merged two v. similar threads)

 

I was initially confused, then surprised this topic had been brought up a long time ago. Very interesting. I still wish i could find out just who Todd Lassa's (MT/Automobile) sources are that led him to publish this info. I don't believe it was complete BS but need more background on the master plan to even fathom why that would make sense.