View Poll Results: Should Lexus cancel the ES?
Yes
18
20.45%
No
70
79.55%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll
Lexus to Cancel ES?
03-22-13, 07:32 AM
#226
Lexus Fanatic
Of course, by itself the ES is certainly a fine car for what it is and how much it is and there definitely is a market for it, but for the long-term good of the growth of Lexus's brand value Lexus needs to let go of it in order to let their premium-engineered cars that are developed to be a Lexus take the center stage, and not let a car whose platform and powertrain are 100% taken straight from their downmarket division dominate.
03-22-13, 12:56 PM
#229
Lexus Fanatic
HAHA, that made my day. I needed that!
03-22-13, 05:00 PM
#230
Moderator
05-11-13, 06:32 PM
#231
Moderator
Obviously Lexus isn't cancelling the ES since it'll be made in the U.S. starting 2015. I still think that isn't a good idea. I think Lexus should continue to produce the ES 350 in Japan or maybe in Canada. The ES 300h will still continue to be produced in Japan.
I'm very sure Toyota is getting some major incentives (tax or real estate) to produce the ES 350 in Kentucky otherwise Lexus would have continued to produce the ES 350 in Japan or even Canada. The RX sells twice as many ES's and I can see why Canada produces some of the RX's. I guess Canada isn't giving any incentives to Lexus to produce the ES 350 in Canada.
Akio Toyoda is making Lexus his pet project but is thinking more like a shrewd businessman when it comes to the ES with major cost cutting and even producing the ES 350 in the U.S. What's up with that?
I'm very sure Toyota is getting some major incentives (tax or real estate) to produce the ES 350 in Kentucky otherwise Lexus would have continued to produce the ES 350 in Japan or even Canada. The RX sells twice as many ES's and I can see why Canada produces some of the RX's. I guess Canada isn't giving any incentives to Lexus to produce the ES 350 in Canada.
Akio Toyoda is making Lexus his pet project but is thinking more like a shrewd businessman when it comes to the ES with major cost cutting and even producing the ES 350 in the U.S. What's up with that?
05-11-13, 06:53 PM
#232
I'm sure Lexus will continue to produce ES models in Japan, just not for the US market. I think it's a wise move. The ES is not even offered in Japan, so there is no point to keep producing so many cars there, that sell in high volume elsewhere in the world. Plus, I'm sure they'll be saving tons of money on shipping.
Last edited by SNiiP3R; 05-11-13 at 08:20 PM.
05-12-13, 02:01 AM
#233
Obviously Lexus isn't cancelling the ES since it'll be made in the U.S. starting 2015. I still think that isn't a good idea. I think Lexus should continue to produce the ES 350 in Japan or maybe in Canada. The ES 300h will still continue to be produced in Japan.
I'm very sure Toyota is getting some major incentives (tax or real estate) to produce the ES 350 in Kentucky otherwise Lexus would have continued to produce the ES 350 in Japan or even Canada. The RX sells twice as many ES's and I can see why Canada produces some of the RX's. I guess Canada isn't giving any incentives to Lexus to produce the ES 350 in Canada.
Akio Toyoda is making Lexus his pet project but is thinking more like a shrewd businessman when it comes to the ES with major cost cutting and even producing the ES 350 in the U.S. What's up with that?
I'm very sure Toyota is getting some major incentives (tax or real estate) to produce the ES 350 in Kentucky otherwise Lexus would have continued to produce the ES 350 in Japan or even Canada. The RX sells twice as many ES's and I can see why Canada produces some of the RX's. I guess Canada isn't giving any incentives to Lexus to produce the ES 350 in Canada.
Akio Toyoda is making Lexus his pet project but is thinking more like a shrewd businessman when it comes to the ES with major cost cutting and even producing the ES 350 in the U.S. What's up with that?
05-12-13, 02:27 PM
#234
Moderator
It's come down to quality. A good example is Audi producing vehicles in Mexico and lots of quality issues have arose. I understand the Japanese will supervise the U.S. plants, the engineering, processes, procedures, philosophies, etc., etc. are Japanese. Toyota is a Japanese global company through and through. In my opinion the employees building cars in their respective countries whether Lexus or Audi take serious pride in their work and the quality speaks for itself. As for Canada they now have the experience and expertise on building Lexus vehicles. In the beginning there were quality differences between Canadian and Japanese RX's. My personal opinion still stands that the ES 350 should still be produced in Japan or Canada. Leave the mainstream Toyota to be made in the U.S. and other plants all over the world.
As far as the tons of savings in shipping expense by producing the ES 350 in the U.S. as oppose to Japan, does one think the savings will be passed onto the consumer (by lower prices) or the shareholders (by larger dividends)?
As far as the tons of savings in shipping expense by producing the ES 350 in the U.S. as oppose to Japan, does one think the savings will be passed onto the consumer (by lower prices) or the shareholders (by larger dividends)?
Last edited by Trexus; 05-12-13 at 06:08 PM.
05-12-13, 05:44 PM
#235
Lexus Fanatic
[QUOTE=Trexus;7934049
As far as the tons of savings in shipping expense by producing the ES 350 in the U.S. as oppose to Japan, does one think the savings will be passed onto the consumer (by lower prices) or the shareholders (by larger dividend)?[/QUOTE]
Not directly, but I do think it will keep them from having to decontent the ES so much to get the profit out of it they need.
As far as the tons of savings in shipping expense by producing the ES 350 in the U.S. as oppose to Japan, does one think the savings will be passed onto the consumer (by lower prices) or the shareholders (by larger dividend)?[/QUOTE]
Not directly, but I do think it will keep them from having to decontent the ES so much to get the profit out of it they need.
05-12-13, 07:34 PM
#236
Lexus Fanatic
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Obviously Lexus isn't cancelling the ES since it'll be made in the U.S. starting 2015. I still think that isn't a good idea. I think Lexus should continue to produce the ES 350 in Japan or maybe in Canada. The ES 300h will still continue to be produced in Japan.
I'm very sure Toyota is getting some major incentives (tax or real estate) to produce the ES 350 in Kentucky otherwise Lexus would have continued to produce the ES 350 in Japan or even Canada. The RX sells twice as many ES's and I can see why Canada produces some of the RX's. I guess Canada isn't giving any incentives to Lexus to produce the ES 350 in Canada.
Akio Toyoda is making Lexus his pet project but is thinking more like a shrewd businessman when it comes to the ES with major cost cutting and even producing the ES 350 in the U.S. What's up with that?
I'm very sure Toyota is getting some major incentives (tax or real estate) to produce the ES 350 in Kentucky otherwise Lexus would have continued to produce the ES 350 in Japan or even Canada. The RX sells twice as many ES's and I can see why Canada produces some of the RX's. I guess Canada isn't giving any incentives to Lexus to produce the ES 350 in Canada.
Akio Toyoda is making Lexus his pet project but is thinking more like a shrewd businessman when it comes to the ES with major cost cutting and even producing the ES 350 in the U.S. What's up with that?
As for why they chose the US instead of their Canada plant, I think it may be due to taxes and perhaps incentives. Maybe Kentucky gave Toyota a huge incentive that Ontario, Canada could not match or even come close to.
I would have preferred to see the ES production in Canada as well, but we shall see what happens with the US produced ES. We can only hope Toyota will upgrade the luxury and interior of the car.
05-13-13, 06:37 AM
#237
Lexus Champion
I see your point and mostly agree, but on the other hand building in in the US allows for Toyota to save a lot of money from the yen conversion rate, and it on paper will allow Toyota to add more value and luxury to the ES, and decontent it less.
As for why they chose the US instead of their Canada plant, I think it may be due to taxes and perhaps incentives. Maybe Kentucky gave Toyota a huge incentive that Ontario, Canada could not match or even come close to.
I would have preferred to see the ES production in Canada as well, but we shall see what happens with the US produced ES. We can only hope Toyota will upgrade the luxury and interior of the car.
As for why they chose the US instead of their Canada plant, I think it may be due to taxes and perhaps incentives. Maybe Kentucky gave Toyota a huge incentive that Ontario, Canada could not match or even come close to.
I would have preferred to see the ES production in Canada as well, but we shall see what happens with the US produced ES. We can only hope Toyota will upgrade the luxury and interior of the car.
Source: Toyota's Canadian manufacturing operation to increase RAV4 volume
CAMBRIDGE, ON, March 28, 2012 - Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada Inc. (TMMC) announced today that it will increase RAV4 production at its Woodstock, Ontario assembly plant from 150,000 annual capacity to 200,000 vehicles in early 2013. Ultimately, this $80 million [CAD] investment will result in about 400 new jobs between now and implementation. This initiative is one of several projects announced in 2011 under the name, Project Green Light.
CAMBRIDGE, ON, July 24, 2012 - Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada Inc. (TMMC) announced today that it will invest more than $100 million and hire approximately 400 employees to increase Lexus RX production at its Cambridge, Ontario facility. Overall Lexus RX capacity will increase by 30,000 vehicles to 104,000 units, including 15,000 RX450h vehicles, the hybrid electric version of the popular Lexus. The investment will take Toyota's annual production capacity in Canada to 500,000 units.
I would like to see further expansion at the Woodstock plant to handle production of the new RAV4-based NX but that would be a few years off -- not until the mid-cycle change/facelift in 3 to 4 years time or the full model change in 5 to 7 years time at least -- as Toyota finds out what the demand will be for the new model.
05-13-13, 06:47 AM
#238
It's come down to quality. A good example is Audi producing vehicles in Mexico and lots of quality issues have arose. I understand the Japanese will supervise the U.S. plants, the engineering, processes, procedures, philosophies, etc., etc. are Japanese. Toyota is a Japanese global company through and through. In my opinion the employees building cars in their respective countries whether Lexus or Audi take serious pride in their work and the quality speaks for itself. As for Canada they now have the experience and expertise on building Lexus vehicles. In the beginning there were quality differences between Canadian and Japanese RX's. My personal opinion still stands that the ES 350 should still be produced in Japan or Canada. Leave the mainstream Toyota to be made in the U.S. and other plants all over the world.
As far as the tons of savings in shipping expense by producing the ES 350 in the U.S. as oppose to Japan, does one think the savings will be passed onto the consumer (by lower prices) or the shareholders (by larger dividends)?
As far as the tons of savings in shipping expense by producing the ES 350 in the U.S. as oppose to Japan, does one think the savings will be passed onto the consumer (by lower prices) or the shareholders (by larger dividends)?
I don't believe the Japanese auto worker today is like that of the 1986 movie Gung Ho.A Ron Howard good comedy with Michael Keaton.
Yes,it still is a feel good thing about having a vehicle built in Japan but I don't think there's much if any difference anymore.
05-13-13, 07:04 AM
#239
Pole Position
I think there is an objective rating of each individual automative factory done by external third parties.
That should cut through the subjectivity and anecdoctal evidence. For example, Toyota's Tahara plant was supposedly rated by JD Powers to be the plant to have the lowest defect rate in the world. Incidentally, it produces the LS, GS and IS.
Not sure about its rating now....
That should cut through the subjectivity and anecdoctal evidence. For example, Toyota's Tahara plant was supposedly rated by JD Powers to be the plant to have the lowest defect rate in the world. Incidentally, it produces the LS, GS and IS.
Not sure about its rating now....
05-13-13, 08:43 AM
#240
Lexus Fanatic
Things have changed over the years.
I don't believe the Japanese auto worker today is like that of the 1986 movie Gung Ho.A Ron Howard good comedy with Michael Keaton.
Yes,it still is a feel good thing about having a vehicle built in Japan but I don't think there's much if any difference anymore.
I don't believe the Japanese auto worker today is like that of the 1986 movie Gung Ho.A Ron Howard good comedy with Michael Keaton.
Yes,it still is a feel good thing about having a vehicle built in Japan but I don't think there's much if any difference anymore.
As far as the thread-topic question goes, I see no need to cancel the ES. Simply make it more like it was 10-12 years ago, with the superb 4th-generation model. The main problem with today's ES is that it is no longer a true ES....the interior trim-quality has been somewhat downgraded, and the chassis/tires/suspension made too stiff. In other words, It is a now semi-sports sedan. The same holds true for the new Avalon's chassis, but, unlike the new ES, the new Avalon's interior, IMO, is a notable upgrade from the last one. Though I don't particularly care for the ride in either one, given the choice, I'd take the new Avalon over the ES.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-13-13 at 08:51 AM.