View Poll Results: Should Lexus cancel the ES?
Yes
18
20.45%
No
70
79.55%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll
Lexus to Cancel ES?
05-13-13, 08:57 AM
#241
Lexus Fanatic
The difference is not so much that Japanese companies have gone downhill in quality (though there is some evidence of cost-cutting) but that other companes (particularly GM and Chrysler) have improved so much, and are now, in some cases, giving the Japanese real competition.
05-13-13, 09:39 AM
#242
Guest
Posts: n/a
When the RX moved production to Canada there was an internet uproar but consumers don't know and don't seem to care. This is clearly obvious since so many BMW, Benz, Acura, Infiniti etc are all built in America.
Would it have been great to keep in Japan? Sure, it provides a true "from/made in" story. However it is clear people don't really seem to care where a product is made in relation to the badge. The ES is ripe for a move since its mostly only sold here for this market. If Lexus has proven anything it is their management is amazingly well kept and workers on the assembly line/plants are amazing no matter if built in Japan or Canada. Its not like the RX from Canada is any worse in quality than one made in Japan and surely the same will happen for an American made ES.
In the past I stated it wouldn't happen but clearly I was wrong, it is happening quicker than expected. It is also great to see American job growth here in America.
So b/c the car evolves its not "true"? No car drives today like it did 20 years ago. People can complain all they want, owners are happy, the car is selling and its still one of the best in class.
Would it have been great to keep in Japan? Sure, it provides a true "from/made in" story. However it is clear people don't really seem to care where a product is made in relation to the badge. The ES is ripe for a move since its mostly only sold here for this market. If Lexus has proven anything it is their management is amazingly well kept and workers on the assembly line/plants are amazing no matter if built in Japan or Canada. Its not like the RX from Canada is any worse in quality than one made in Japan and surely the same will happen for an American made ES.
In the past I stated it wouldn't happen but clearly I was wrong, it is happening quicker than expected. It is also great to see American job growth here in America.
The difference is not so much that Japanese companies have gone downhill in quality (though there is some evidence of cost-cutting) but that other companes (particularly GM and Chrysler) have improved so much, and are now, in some cases, giving the Japanese real competition.
As far as the thread-topic question goes, I see no need to cancel the ES. Simply make it more like it was 10-12 years ago, with the superb 4th-generation model. The main problem with today's ES is that it is no longer a true ES....the interior trim-quality has been somewhat downgraded, and the chassis/tires/suspension made too stiff. In other words, It is a now semi-sports sedan. The same holds true for the new Avalon's chassis, but, unlike the new ES, the new Avalon's interior, IMO, is a notable upgrade from the last one. Though I don't particularly care for the ride in either one, given the choice, I'd take the new Avalon over the ES.
As far as the thread-topic question goes, I see no need to cancel the ES. Simply make it more like it was 10-12 years ago, with the superb 4th-generation model. The main problem with today's ES is that it is no longer a true ES....the interior trim-quality has been somewhat downgraded, and the chassis/tires/suspension made too stiff. In other words, It is a now semi-sports sedan. The same holds true for the new Avalon's chassis, but, unlike the new ES, the new Avalon's interior, IMO, is a notable upgrade from the last one. Though I don't particularly care for the ride in either one, given the choice, I'd take the new Avalon over the ES.
05-13-13, 09:40 AM
#243
Lexus Fanatic
When it comes to material and product quality, I disagree, at least about Toyota. Toyota has made some absolutely terrible interior choices over the past 7 years or so. Horrible material quality, headliners like cardboard, etc...
05-13-13, 09:50 AM
#244
Lexus Fanatic
I agree that cars evolve, but, sometimes, how they evolve is not always a good thing. For proof, one need look no further than what happened to Saturn. They completely blew it after the 1990s...and the S-series cars.
People can complain all they want, owners are happy, the car is selling and its still one of the best in class.
05-13-13, 11:00 AM
#245
I totally disagree. Have you actually driven the new Avalon and played with the cap-touch buttons? I really wanted to like it, due to its price advantage. The Avalon's interior is the reason I ended up with the ES.
05-13-13, 11:09 AM
#246
Lexus Fanatic
I would have to disagree as well. I have driven a few of the new gen ES loaners and they are amazing. Very nive fit and finish. I sat in the new Avalon last week when we bought a new Sienna Limited and it was nice not Lexus quality and the ergonomics wasnt the best because my knee was resting on the center console at a very uncomfortable angle. Its a joke to me when people say the LS is just a big Avalon. The avalon is just a big Toyota. Lexus LS is the best Toyota can produce. PERIOD.
05-13-13, 11:18 AM
#247
Lexus Fanatic
I understand you might not like the interior of some Toyota products, but pound for pound, an American made Toyota or Honda will outlast an American made American vehicle.
05-13-13, 11:23 AM
#248
Lexus Fanatic
I would have to disagree as well. I have driven a few of the new gen ES loaners and they are amazing. Very nive fit and finish. I sat in the new Avalon last week when we bought a new Sienna Limited and it was nice not Lexus quality and the ergonomics wasnt the best because my knee was resting on the center console at a very uncomfortable angle. Its a joke to me when people say the LS is just a big Avalon. The avalon is just a big Toyota. Lexus LS is the best Toyota can produce. PERIOD.
05-13-13, 12:37 PM
#249
Lexus Test Driver
What did I8ABMR's quote have to do with Prius? He is talking about his experience driving ES loaners, in comparison with LS (that he owns) and Avalon that is the closest Toyota equivalent.
I test drove the Avalon and the ES, and even though the Avalon is cheaper by a slim amount, it doesn't measure up to the ES. I would only consider the Avalon if I really was stretched for the money (unlikely if one is cross shopping both) or did not want to draw attention by moving into luxury badge while still enjoying the more upscale interior (buick/cadillac syndrome).
I test drove the Avalon and the ES, and even though the Avalon is cheaper by a slim amount, it doesn't measure up to the ES. I would only consider the Avalon if I really was stretched for the money (unlikely if one is cross shopping both) or did not want to draw attention by moving into luxury badge while still enjoying the more upscale interior (buick/cadillac syndrome).
05-13-13, 12:44 PM
#250
Lexus Fanatic
What did I8ABMR's quote have to do with Prius? He is talking about his experience driving ES loaners, in comparison with LS (that he owns) and Avalon that is the closest Toyota equivalent.
I test drove the Avalon and the ES, and even though the Avalon is cheaper by a slim amount, it doesn't measure up to the ES. I would only consider the Avalon if I really was stretched for the money (unlikely if one is cross shopping both) or did not want to draw attention by moving into luxury badge while still enjoying the more upscale interior (buick/cadillac syndrome).
I test drove the Avalon and the ES, and even though the Avalon is cheaper by a slim amount, it doesn't measure up to the ES. I would only consider the Avalon if I really was stretched for the money (unlikely if one is cross shopping both) or did not want to draw attention by moving into luxury badge while still enjoying the more upscale interior (buick/cadillac syndrome).
I like both the Avalon and ES. Both suit different buyers, I will agree with others that the ES has gotten cheaper on the inside, there seems to be more hard plastic on the ES than on the Avalon.
My biggest issue with the ES is that there is no standard leather, this is not acceptable. The Avalon does have standard leather and for this reason, I would say the Avalon is a nicer car.
05-13-13, 01:05 PM
#251
I like both the Avalon and ES. Both suit different buyers, I will agree with others that the ES has gotten cheaper on the inside, there seems to be more hard plastic on the ES than on the Avalon.
My biggest issue with the ES is that there is no standard leather, this is not acceptable. The Avalon does have standard leather and for this reason, I would say the Avalon is a nicer car.
My biggest issue with the ES is that there is no standard leather, this is not acceptable. The Avalon does have standard leather and for this reason, I would say the Avalon is a nicer car.
05-13-13, 01:55 PM
#252
Lexus Fanatic
There is certainly not MORE hard plastic in the ES, than the Avalon. I cross shopped both highly optioned models, so to me, both had leather. I would not consider spending upwards of $40k and not having it. The difference in price was about $4k. All I'm missing out on is heated rear seats, which I really don't care much about.
05-13-13, 03:11 PM
#254
Lexus Fanatic
For me, since I'm not going to own it more than 5 years having something thats built well and is nice is more important than reliability when its 10 years old. Take my Jeep...would I want to own it over a Highlander at 100k miles? No. But new and less than 50k miles no question.
05-13-13, 03:16 PM
#255
Lexus Fanatic
For me, since I'm not going to own it more than 5 years having something thats built well and is nice is more important than reliability when its 10 years old. Take my Jeep...would I want to own it over a Highlander at 100k miles? No. But new and less than 50k miles no question.