View Poll Results: Should Lexus cancel the ES?
Yes
18
20.45%
No
70
79.55%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll
Lexus to Cancel ES?
03-06-12, 08:13 AM
#46
Lead Lap
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Adults don't like compact cars, so the 3/IS/C are out. If they don't like the sporty feel of the GS/5/E, but don't want to move to an LS/7/S, what other options do they have? Seems like maybe the other brands need to add a model, as opposed to the OP's suggestion that Lexus throw away a gold mine. The ES fills a gap in the Lexus lineup, as well as a gap in the lineups of other luxury automakers, which is why it sells so well and won't be going anywhere.
03-06-12, 09:03 AM
#47
Remember folks ES, IS, and RX are cash cow for Lexus nothing will change as long as these three car continue to be bread and butter of Lexus so whether you love ES or hate it nothing will change unless sale of ES were to decline and thats not going to happen, people that are looking for entry level luxury cars at good price point can't beat ES, even if Lexus decide to cancel ES they would have to replace it with similar model.
03-06-12, 01:02 PM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
OP: Have you ever even been in an ES? If you haven't, then I suggest you do because you will quickly realize that there is quite a difference between the ES and Camry.
03-06-12, 08:41 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
03-07-12, 03:39 AM
#52
We often look at the monthly sales figures and say, "Well, between ES and IS, Lexus captured X volume in the entry level market." I think this logic makes sense based on price, but as we compare sales of Lexus (4GS) vs. the Germans (E Class and 5 Series) in the midsize luxury class, maybe it makes sense to consider the ES there too.
Yes, it's less expensive and FWD and not fun to drive, but it's technically larger than the GS and most definitely a midsize sedan. Not to mention, an A6 is FWD and can come with a 4cylinder. When you consider how much of the GS' potential sales is taken by the ES, perhaps we should say, "Well, between ES and GS, Lexus captured X volume of the midsize lux segment."
People laugh when I say this, but I've most commonly seen the ES cross shopped against the GS and E Class, and on the outside, the 528i. This is coming from someone who spent almost 2 years working in a Lexus dealership in one of the largest cities in the country.
Yes, it's less expensive and FWD and not fun to drive, but it's technically larger than the GS and most definitely a midsize sedan. Not to mention, an A6 is FWD and can come with a 4cylinder. When you consider how much of the GS' potential sales is taken by the ES, perhaps we should say, "Well, between ES and GS, Lexus captured X volume of the midsize lux segment."
People laugh when I say this, but I've most commonly seen the ES cross shopped against the GS and E Class, and on the outside, the 528i. This is coming from someone who spent almost 2 years working in a Lexus dealership in one of the largest cities in the country.
It is actually very similar to FWD A6 I guess, a bit less luxurious, and also cheaper.
03-08-12, 04:18 AM
#53
Pole Position
03-08-12, 02:26 PM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I have been a CL member since 2002 and have been a Lexus/Toyota fan from when I was younger. I have had a modded Lexus, gone to CL meets, etc. My family has had a number of Lexus cars over the years starting from the first generation RX up to a 2009 LS460.
The ES is a CAMRY - same chassis, drivetrain, internals, etc......There is NOTHING wrong with that fact! The Camry IMO is a great car.
The GS is superior car in every way to the ES. It is just as comfortable, faster, built better, handles better.
A 55 year old man or woman would not know a difference honestly. They walk in to Lexus to buy a midsize car and choose the ES because its 5 to 10k cheaper. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON!
Again nobody has answered my question: Why sell the ES when you have a GS that is a superior product??? To the average buyer, why would they PAY MORE to buy a GS.
I rather Lexus be selling 5,000 GS per month than ES. Its better for the brand.........In turn, they can take more risks with that platform and sell a GS based coupe. Because the cost savings are there to use those parts. As it stands now the GS is a niche for Lexus, and does NOT generate much return on the HUGE investment they make to develop it, hence it was almost cancelled.
03-08-12, 02:33 PM
#55
Lexus Champion
Are u referring to me?
I have been a CL member since 2002 and have been a Lexus/Toyota fan from when I was younger. I have had a modded Lexus, gone to CL meets, etc. My family has had a number of Lexus cars over the years starting from the first generation RX up to a 2009 LS460.
The ES is a CAMRY - same chassis, drivetrain, internals, etc......There is NOTHING wrong with that fact! The Camry IMO is a great car.
The GS is superior car in every way to the ES. It is just as comfortable, faster, built better, handles better.
A 55 year old man or woman would not know a difference honestly. They walk in to Lexus to buy a midsize car and choose the ES because its 5 to 10k cheaper. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON!
Again nobody has answered my question: Why sell the ES when you have a GS that is a superior product??? To the average buyer, why would they PAY MORE to buy a GS.
I rather Lexus be selling 5,000 GS per month than ES. Its better for the brand.........In turn, they can take more risks with that platform and sell a GS based coupe. Because the cost savings are there to use those parts. As it stands now the GS is a niche for Lexus, and does NOT generate much return on the HUGE investment they make to develop it, hence it was almost cancelled.
I have been a CL member since 2002 and have been a Lexus/Toyota fan from when I was younger. I have had a modded Lexus, gone to CL meets, etc. My family has had a number of Lexus cars over the years starting from the first generation RX up to a 2009 LS460.
The ES is a CAMRY - same chassis, drivetrain, internals, etc......There is NOTHING wrong with that fact! The Camry IMO is a great car.
The GS is superior car in every way to the ES. It is just as comfortable, faster, built better, handles better.
A 55 year old man or woman would not know a difference honestly. They walk in to Lexus to buy a midsize car and choose the ES because its 5 to 10k cheaper. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON!
Again nobody has answered my question: Why sell the ES when you have a GS that is a superior product??? To the average buyer, why would they PAY MORE to buy a GS.
I rather Lexus be selling 5,000 GS per month than ES. Its better for the brand.........In turn, they can take more risks with that platform and sell a GS based coupe. Because the cost savings are there to use those parts. As it stands now the GS is a niche for Lexus, and does NOT generate much return on the HUGE investment they make to develop it, hence it was almost cancelled.
Again, they've sold around 250,000 ES350's since it was launched in 2006. It just doesn't make any business sense to cancel the model. The $50k-$60k GS would never make up the lost volume and profits for TMC. If the ES was a sales failure it MIGHT make sense. But that's not the case.
03-08-12, 02:35 PM
#56
Can you really give a legit reason for the basis that "it is better for the brand"? All I see is fluff from you to discontinue the ES line despite it being one of the most popular Lexus on the road as well as one of the founding roots of the company. Not to be rude, but LEXUS knows more about the average buyer and market than you do. That is the sole reason why your points are null, because you're obviously biased towards the GS.
I can easily say that Lexus should discontinue the GS platform since according to you, the GS line "doesn't generate much return on the HUGE investment they make to develop it." Why keep something that doesn't supposedly sell well? Clearly, the GS has some market to keep it here. The HS was unlucky
I can easily say that Lexus should discontinue the GS platform since according to you, the GS line "doesn't generate much return on the HUGE investment they make to develop it." Why keep something that doesn't supposedly sell well? Clearly, the GS has some market to keep it here. The HS was unlucky
03-08-12, 02:37 PM
#57
And how do we know this?
Again, they've sold around 250,000 ES350's since it was launched in 2006. It just doesn't make any business sense to cancel the model. The $50k-$60k GS would never make up the lost volume and profits for TMC. If the ES was a sales failure it MIGHT make sense. But that's not the case.
Again, they've sold around 250,000 ES350's since it was launched in 2006. It just doesn't make any business sense to cancel the model. The $50k-$60k GS would never make up the lost volume and profits for TMC. If the ES was a sales failure it MIGHT make sense. But that's not the case.
03-08-12, 02:54 PM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I DISAGREE........The 4GS is a GREAT car, and the ES will take sales away from it.
If the ES was priced from 30k then this would not be a factor, but it starts at 38k and goes up to 45k+.
Lexus needs to have its own PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT and I think they are doing that NOW.
It has been just very slow. They used to have Toyota Execs making all decisions for the Lexus brand and thats wrong.
Again I dont mind Lexus using Toyota parts. The CT and RX are GREAT examples of this.
I just want more LEXUS BRAND styling / development / engineering to be developed. Like with the original LS.
If the ES was priced from 30k then this would not be a factor, but it starts at 38k and goes up to 45k+.
Lexus needs to have its own PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT and I think they are doing that NOW.
It has been just very slow. They used to have Toyota Execs making all decisions for the Lexus brand and thats wrong. Again I dont mind Lexus using Toyota parts. The CT and RX are GREAT examples of this.
I just want more LEXUS BRAND styling / development / engineering to be developed. Like with the original LS.
03-08-12, 03:00 PM
#59
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
And how do we know this?
Again, they've sold around 250,000 ES350's since it was launched in 2006. It just doesn't make any business sense to cancel the model. The $50k-$60k GS would never make up the lost volume and profits for TMC. If the ES was a sales failure it MIGHT make sense. But that's not the case.
Again, they've sold around 250,000 ES350's since it was launched in 2006. It just doesn't make any business sense to cancel the model. The $50k-$60k GS would never make up the lost volume and profits for TMC. If the ES was a sales failure it MIGHT make sense. But that's not the case.
Also they can bring the GS250 to have a cheaper starting price with less options. (An Eclass doesnt have standard HID headlights even!)
I guess everyone here is more concerned about Lexus profit.
Lexus/Toyota will be fine and in the LONG Term it would be better to sell more units of a HIGHER PRICED model!
03-08-12, 03:34 PM
#60
Lexus Champion
Are you telling me the GS can't sell like the E class and 5 Series? I think it DEFINITELY can.
Also they can bring the GS250 to have a cheaper starting price with less options. (An Eclass doesnt have standard HID headlights even!)
I guess everyone here is more concerned about Lexus profit. Lexus/Toyota will be fine and in the LONG Term it would be better to sell more units of a HIGHER PRICED model!
Also they can bring the GS250 to have a cheaper starting price with less options. (An Eclass doesnt have standard HID headlights even!)
I guess everyone here is more concerned about Lexus profit.
Lexus/Toyota will be fine and in the LONG Term it would be better to sell more units of a HIGHER PRICED model!