edgeucated

iTrader: (4)

I think the steering wheel is fine. It has a very sophisticated, old look to it. It is just not sporty at all, but then again the customer base of an S class would not be sporty.

Mr. Burns

The next LS should be out in 2015, and it should be more than good enough to compete with this S-class. Picture a headlight design similar to the 3IS with the separated DRLs, only even more sophisticated and advanced looking. The 2015 LS will compete with this new S-class for 5 years at least, whereas the current LS will only compete for just 2 years.

The S-class is a good car but people ignore that it's very very expensive, even compared to its European competitors. For that kind of money MB can afford to offer porcelain switchgear and diamond stitching, but technically anyone should be able to. I'd like to see if they can offer a car as good as the LS for LS money.

RXSF

Yes, the LS (and all Lexus models) have the option of the adaptive cruise control, but once it slows to 25mph, it beeps at you and relinquishes control. The tech that other manufacturers use allows the car to slow to a complete stop and then start back up again. The LS only this year received this advanced use

CincyBrad

Georgous. Out of my league in terms of price, but its nice to dream.

SW17LS

Are you currently in the market for a $80,000+ sedan? Then to be blunt...what you think really is beside the point. What matters is what the buyer in that segment is looking for, and what the competition in that segment is doing. This is coming from a huge longtime LS fan, the LS is probably my favorite car...the LS is standing still while the competition is just running circles around them. The LS is just old, the 2013 refresh helped, but it still looks like a 2006-2007 era car in the doors and handles, etc. The LS needs an all new model and quick.

The mid level sedan has arisen to such a point that they really need to reach even further to set the flagship full sized sedan apart. The competition has done that, Lexus has not. We're not doing our brand any favors as enthusiasts by pretending that a second refresh of a 7 year old chassis, engine, and drivetrain is going to cut it when every single manufacturer has a fresh chassis in that segment.

Audi can...Jaguar can...BMW can...although the 7 gets pricey fast with options.

The LS is not the stand out car in that segment anymore, and its not even really much of a value anymore.

trexlexus

I never denied the LS is behind everyone. It is blatantly obvious with a 2013 refresh. With this new S class, Lexus falls yet another rung. I don't believe i have ever felt that the 2013 LS is a great rival to current comp. It is a good car in it's respects but the fact that everyone has upgraded their flagships extensively while we have not just solidifies the place we currently hold. Not first.

At the same time, it may not matter to you what i think, but i just felt that it was perfectly reasonable for me to talk about what i like in the current LS and my driving habits.

LexFather

LS was a refresh, this seem to be an all new car. Can't wait to see this in person.

SW17LS

Then why are you disagreeing with people that say it is?!?

Its fine to talk about it, but its a meaningless exercise as a part of a objective conversation about the vehicle and how it compares to other vehicles in its segment since you aren't a buyer in that segment. You can talk in abstracts, but it would be like me talking about how a Ferrari or Lamborghini would better fit into my driving habits...or how I would live in a 14,000 square foot house. Fun...but not of any value when talking objectively about a car and its market segment. Have you even driven the '13 LS? How about an A6, XJ, 7 or S class?

I remember having this conversation with you about the very market segment I AM a buyer in and you trying to tell me I was wrong about midsized $60k luxury sedan buyers when I had just bought a midsized $60k luxury sedan...very frustrating.

LexFather

Sadly this happens a lot here and I guess the Internet in general.

trexlexus

I'm confused. Please tell me where i said that the LS is just as good or on par with it's current competition. I say there are certain good points about the car. That doesn't mean as a whole the package is better than what the others offer. Nor is it just "as good". The LS is behind. Period.
Noone is saying you are wrong. Just because you belong in a certain segment does not make you completely immune from outside comments. Likewise, just because you are a representative of a certain segment, does in NO way make you the ABSOLUTE in that standard. I dont doubt where you stand, but it is going to be very hard to lend me to believe that you are the ideal be all-end all of that group.

When you say that "just because X person doesnt own Y car, thus X person has no say/should have no say in Y car" means that anyone in this forum who doesn't own a Lexus should immediately not comment on anything.

I'm beginning to think you seem to have some kind of personal resentment with me. The fact that i TALK doesn't always mean i am directly addressing you nor any specific person. Sure sometimes i talk in response to you but the fact that i post messages talking about "the target buying segment" or "the merits of a certain vehicle" in way is supposed to mean "I am right, SW10GS is wrong". I never intend to attack you, but it seems you aren't always returning the favor. Remember that this is a forum, so when people talk they dont always mean to address certain people. If you feel i have wronged you, or attacked you unfairly then perhaps we should talk about this in private chat.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I mentioned Lexus because this is clubLEXUS and we compare most everything to Lexus vehicles.

Lots of ongoing talk about how Lexus is 'tier 1’ (whatever that really means) but reality is they're not when you travel around. The LS is a wonderful car. But it's not and likely never will be very competitive with an s-class.

Seems almost no one has driven EVERY car they comment about or is a potential or current customer. If those things were actually required then there wouldn't be much content on here.

LexFather

Right CLUBLEXUS a Lexus OWNERS club, that is how the site was founded by Lexus owners for Lexus owners. Everything else is a bonus b/c of the Lexus owner foundation. Too many non-owners spouting off not in the market or have the foggiest idea about the market.


Right but there are way to many people just muddying forums and threads with a bunch of nothing which is frustrating to owners and enthusiasts as well as those reading from the sidelines trying to learn.

But hey you don't think the LS will ever be as good as an S class and Lexus isn't Tier 1 on a Lexus forum!

SW17LS

Am I the be all end all of the group? No, but I have a certain viewpoint as a consumer who is:

1. Capable of purchasing the car
2. Interested in a vehicle of that segment
3. Had the experience of driving all the vehicles in the segment

I AM the consumer. What I think is whats of value when discussing that segment...not what you think. Just as what a full sized luxury buyer thinks is whats of value when discussing full sized luxury cars, not what I think...or what you think. There isn't anything you can tell me about the midsized luxury car buyer because I AM the buyer.

This statement of yours is the problem:

Since you are not a consumer who purchases a car in this segment...who cares if you don't care about the engine or that you drive "super slow" anyways. We are discussing the LS and how it fits in with full sized flagship luxury sedans...what we care about is what the buyer of a flagship full sized luxury sedan thinks about the engine. Your statement is that Lexus does not need more power or an updated motor because its not important TO YOU. Which is a meaningless statement because you are not a consumer who is capable of buying the product.

Its a way of commenting. Whether you intend it or not your input in discussions like this comes across as dismissive and argumentative, and when you are discussing a vehicle with people who own or are capable of owning the vehicle or its competitors...its frustrating. Other members are discussing the car, but the way they put their discussions forward is different.

Note you did not answer my question, have you even driven the LS, A6, XJ, 7 series and S Class? Any of them?

Exactly. Its not that non-owners aren't welcome, its that they should not be driving a discussion about a product they don't know anything about. For instance...I post in the LS forums...but I don't give LS owners the business about their cars or drive discussions because I don't own the car...

trexlexus

No problem, ill answer that now. No i have not, but i will in the future.
Again, noone needs to care, but that doesnt change the fact that i SHOULD not say it.
Again, it seems you have a PERSONAL issue with the way i talk. Notice how i never directly attack you on anything. However, you seem to have no problems with "calling me out on things" ***** nilly. Tell me where i was argumentative. I merely said good points about the LS.

I'd rather not argue with you on every thread.

Treat others the way you want to be treated.

SW17LS

Then come back and talk about it in the future after you have experienced what you are opining about.

I was taught to speak when I had something of value to add to a conversation. I think you should feel free to voice your viewpoints and opinions...just don't argue with people who know way more about the subject than you. There's an old saying "A man with experience is not at the mercy of one with an opinion".

Right now.

Which by your admission are meaningless because not only have you never driven an LS...you've never even driven anything in the segment. Hence...you have no experience with the product or the segment but we have to participate in threads with you where you are challenging the viewpoints of those of us who do. You can't see how thats frustrating?