Another ISF competitor by Mercedes?
03-27-13 | 03:06 PM
#31
I understand that AMG is more experienced but it seems the Germans have a higher sense of urgency in creating excitement and keeping people interested.
Lexus product planning might actually have a model year where there is no "F" model since the LFA is done and the IS F will be done.
Lexus product planning might actually have a model year where there is no "F" model since the LFA is done and the IS F will be done.
03-27-13 | 03:12 PM
#32
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03-27-13 | 03:12 PM
#33
Size and performance numbers are 2 out of the 10 factors on a car. Refinement level alone would be a huge difference between the IS-F and CLA45.
Even for people who are clueless about cars, they can tell the differences in refinements. People who spend $50k+ on a luxury performance car are usually not that clueless.
Even for people who are clueless about cars, they can tell the differences in refinements. People who spend $50k+ on a luxury performance car are usually not that clueless.
But more to your refinement point, I used to have an IS250 (well, my wife did, but I drove it on occasion) and the level of refinement was equal to, if not just slightly under the refinement on my ISF. It's not like I thought "oh wow, I'm sitting in a car that costs twice as much as my old IS250" just from looks and feel. No, the extra $30K is all about performance and engineering. Suspension, handling, power, steering feel, etc.... all performance upgrades.
That, and Mercedes is not going to throw their AMG badge or a piece of junk. Sure, it might break down because German cars are not models of reliability like Lexus, but it isn't going to look or feel cheap, and I'd bet it won't be any less refined than an ISF.
03-27-13 | 03:31 PM
#34
But more to your refinement point, I used to have an IS250 (well, my wife did, but I drove it on occasion) and the level of refinement was equal to, if not just slightly under the refinement on my ISF. It's not like I thought "oh wow, I'm sitting in a car that costs twice as much as my old IS250" just from looks and feel. No, the extra $30K is all about performance and engineering. Suspension, handling, power, steering feel, etc.... all performance upgrades.
You must be very young.
03-27-13 | 03:33 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,964
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Did you look at the pictures in the link? If the Mercedes was raw, unrefined and cheap-looking, then yeah, it wouldn't compete. But it looks pretty refined to me. Obviously I'd need to see how it feels in order to make a final decision.
But more to your refinement point, I used to have an IS250 (well, my wife did, but I drove it on occasion) and the level of refinement was equal to, if not just slightly under the refinement on my ISF. It's not like I thought "oh wow, I'm sitting in a car that costs twice as much as my old IS250" just from looks and feel. No, the extra $30K is all about performance and engineering. Suspension, handling, power, steering feel, etc.... all performance upgrades.
That, and Mercedes is not going to throw their AMG badge or a piece of junk. Sure, it might break down because German cars are not models of reliability like Lexus, but it isn't going to look or feel cheap, and I'd bet it won't be any less refined than an ISF.
But more to your refinement point, I used to have an IS250 (well, my wife did, but I drove it on occasion) and the level of refinement was equal to, if not just slightly under the refinement on my ISF. It's not like I thought "oh wow, I'm sitting in a car that costs twice as much as my old IS250" just from looks and feel. No, the extra $30K is all about performance and engineering. Suspension, handling, power, steering feel, etc.... all performance upgrades.
That, and Mercedes is not going to throw their AMG badge or a piece of junk. Sure, it might break down because German cars are not models of reliability like Lexus, but it isn't going to look or feel cheap, and I'd bet it won't be any less refined than an ISF.
03-27-13 | 04:34 PM
#37
mike you have really changed your feeling on lexus as of late. 2 months ago if someone says stuff like this you probably would have crucified the guy.
03-27-13 | 04:44 PM
#38
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Posts: n/a
sigh, i am so glad that we have few people here who really understand how it works and wish lexus has a faster better reaction time!!!!
mike you have really changed your feeling on lexus as of late. 2 months ago if someone says stuff like this you probably would have crucified the guy.
mike you have really changed your feeling on lexus as of late. 2 months ago if someone says stuff like this you probably would have crucified the guy.
We have been complaining about Lexus relatively molasses pace for years, this is not a new find.
03-27-13 | 07:15 PM
#39
Cars in the same level and same platform have the same or very similar refinement. Go compare your ISF to a CT200 or a Corolla.
Granted, Lexus puts out a quality product, which is why I've owned a couple of them and why I am very happy with my current ISF. I would not describe it as more refined than the C63 AMG it competes with though. They both feel like proper, quality entry level luxury cars to me with the right sport/performance tweaks to me. I did not sit in the C63 and think "this feels sloppy and cheap."
You must be very young.
Last edited by vbb; 03-27-13 at 07:19 PM.
03-27-13 | 08:05 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,964
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My point is that refinement is not necessarily tied to a dollar figure. Often it is, but to suggest that a $50K MB AMG is not going to be as refined as a $65K Lexus ISF simply because it is a "lower" model on the respective totem pole is a bit of a stretch, especially when the $65K ISF is similar in refinement to a $35K IS250.
So while IS-F is based on $35k IS250, CLA AMG is based on $25k A class.
There is quite an difference between C class and A class, dont need to compare IS at all.
03-28-13 | 07:18 AM
#43
problem with your reasoning is that Mercedes is based on the car that in Europe sells for $25k, at inflated European prices.
So while IS-F is based on $35k IS250, CLA AMG is based on $25k A class.
There is quite an difference between C class and A class, dont need to compare IS at all.
So while IS-F is based on $35k IS250, CLA AMG is based on $25k A class.
There is quite an difference between C class and A class, dont need to compare IS at all.
I think we forget that not everyone is like those of us that spend time on car message boards and know right away that the C63, ISF and M3 currently have V8s and are natural competitors. People can look at the 1M and see it is a small car, and guess that it probably isn't in the same class. People know the "M" badge means performance, but probably don't know what kind of powerplant is under the hood. This is what I'm talking about with the CLA45 AMG. In the US, people will see the car is the same size as the ISF, M3 and S4, they will see the AMG badge, and they will probably look at the car. Now, if they sit in it and test drive it and it smacks of a "cheaper" car with lower quality, they'll move on. But if it looks, feels and drives like a $55K luxury car should, then yes, I DO think people will consider it even if, on paper, it isn't really a competitor to the ISF. I thought the CLA45 would be a much smaller car.
I'm just saying that Lexus needs to make sure their version of the 3ISF (if they make one) stands apart if they plan on charging upwards of $70K for one. It'll need to be faster, more refined, and obviously better even to the non-enthusiast.
03-28-13 | 12:35 PM
#44
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,661
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From: DE
1+..most people at my work have no idea what an isf is..they have alot of AMGs/M3 m5 335i and audi s4 s5 and even g35s..I am talking people in their 30s ..I work at one of the top 3 banks
Posted from ClubLexus.com App for Android
Originally Posted by vbb
Quote:
Originally Posted by spwolf
problem with your reasoning is that Mercedes is based on the car that in Europe sells for $25k, at inflated European prices.
So while IS-F is based on $35k IS250, CLA AMG is based on $25k A class.
There is quite an difference between C class and A class, dont need to compare IS at all.
As car enthusiasts, we understand this distinction, but a buyer that is looking for a fast 4-door car because he likes performance, has a little money (but not unlimited funds) and has a need for real backseats is likely to look at the spectrum of performance luxury cars that are out there. Only a very few people that I talk to even know what an ISF is, and yes, that includes some car enthusiasts.
I think we forget that not everyone is like those of us that spend time on car message boards and know right away that the C63, ISF and M3 currently have V8s and are natural competitors. People can look at the 1M and see it is a small car, and guess that it probably isn't in the same class. People know the "M" badge means performance, but probably don't know what kind of powerplant is under the hood. This is what I'm talking about with the CLA45 AMG. In the US, people will see the car is the same size as the ISF, M3 and S4, they will see the AMG badge, and they will probably look at the car. Now, if they sit in it and test drive it and it smacks of a "cheaper" car with lower quality, they'll move on. But if it looks, feels and drives like a $55K luxury car should, then yes, I DO think people will consider it even if, on paper, it isn't really a competitor to the ISF. I thought the CLA45 would be a much smaller car.
I'm just saying that Lexus needs to make sure their version of the 3ISF (if they make one) stands apart if they plan on charging upwards of $70K for one. It'll need to be faster, more refined, and obviously better even to the non-enthusiast.
Originally Posted by spwolf
problem with your reasoning is that Mercedes is based on the car that in Europe sells for $25k, at inflated European prices.
So while IS-F is based on $35k IS250, CLA AMG is based on $25k A class.
There is quite an difference between C class and A class, dont need to compare IS at all.
As car enthusiasts, we understand this distinction, but a buyer that is looking for a fast 4-door car because he likes performance, has a little money (but not unlimited funds) and has a need for real backseats is likely to look at the spectrum of performance luxury cars that are out there. Only a very few people that I talk to even know what an ISF is, and yes, that includes some car enthusiasts.
I think we forget that not everyone is like those of us that spend time on car message boards and know right away that the C63, ISF and M3 currently have V8s and are natural competitors. People can look at the 1M and see it is a small car, and guess that it probably isn't in the same class. People know the "M" badge means performance, but probably don't know what kind of powerplant is under the hood. This is what I'm talking about with the CLA45 AMG. In the US, people will see the car is the same size as the ISF, M3 and S4, they will see the AMG badge, and they will probably look at the car. Now, if they sit in it and test drive it and it smacks of a "cheaper" car with lower quality, they'll move on. But if it looks, feels and drives like a $55K luxury car should, then yes, I DO think people will consider it even if, on paper, it isn't really a competitor to the ISF. I thought the CLA45 would be a much smaller car.
I'm just saying that Lexus needs to make sure their version of the 3ISF (if they make one) stands apart if they plan on charging upwards of $70K for one. It'll need to be faster, more refined, and obviously better even to the non-enthusiast.
Posted from ClubLexus.com App for Android
