Official: 2014 Hyundai Equus
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Value is important at all levels.
I'll give you that one. But I just don't want a Hyundai. I can attest that they make some cool cars, but I can also say that there is nothing they make that urges me to put one in my garage.
I would say though, if I were buying a midmarket car, I would buy a Hyundai over a Toyota.
It really is funny, all of the comments here are exactly what was said about Lexus back in 1989.
#32
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Also since you didn't get the point of my reply, let me clarify. The LS was an exception to the value quotient *at that point in time*. It redefined the "you get what you pay for" quotient at the time, since it innovated in many areas and was superior to the segment leaders in quite a number of ways.
#33
Lexus Fanatic
To discuss the merits of the Equus is not to diminish Lexus or the LS.
#34
Yeah I mean I can understand some agitated as it clearly rips off the LS but its still a damn good car and people are buying it here. Hyundai with no badge or separate dealer network has succeeded where others have failed or not even attempted with the badge.
Hyundai knows it won't sell in big numbers but if they can sell a few here why not? It has helped slowly change some consumer perception about the brand.
Hyundai knows it won't sell in big numbers but if they can sell a few here why not? It has helped slowly change some consumer perception about the brand.
I love to use the Kia is to Dodge as Hyundai is to Chrysler. Ford and defunct Mercury. Chevy and (more premium now) Buick.
A slight edge in refinement and posh over the more mainstream
#35
Lexus Fanatic
The difference is that The Equus and the Genesis really are excellent vehicles that offer first class luxury quality. Chrysler has never done that.
For instance, sit in a Genesis and then sit in an ES.
For instance, sit in a Genesis and then sit in an ES.
#37
Try the new 300C. It makes you go, Chrysler?
Don't get me started on the ES. I think I've trashed that car ever since a few certain threads popped up recently
#38
The Equus is nice and all but the reason it sells low is because it lacks the brand, as discussed earlier. We know it hit sales targets, but that doesn't mean it is a great asset to have.
Honestly, there are too many premium cars in Hyundai's stable at the moment. The Azera, Genesis, and Equus all are fighting for sales. This is also the same brand that sells 14.5k Accents. This is the same problem that cursed the US Phaeton. It is a little wierd to be a Phaeton (Equus) shopper who is looking at cars inside the same dealer building as the shopper who is looking at a Golf (Accent).
Those who can afford the nice cars want to feel "a cut above".
Hyundai should rethink their lineup strategy, axe the Equus, and focus on improving their Accent to Azera (maybe Genesis) stable. They are doing pretty good at improving already. It's all about that money. Take a look at the big boys of Toyota vs. the big boys of Jaguar. One is non luxury, the other isn't. One is wildly successfuly, the other is not so much.
Honestly, there are too many premium cars in Hyundai's stable at the moment. The Azera, Genesis, and Equus all are fighting for sales. This is also the same brand that sells 14.5k Accents. This is the same problem that cursed the US Phaeton. It is a little wierd to be a Phaeton (Equus) shopper who is looking at cars inside the same dealer building as the shopper who is looking at a Golf (Accent).
Those who can afford the nice cars want to feel "a cut above".
Hyundai should rethink their lineup strategy, axe the Equus, and focus on improving their Accent to Azera (maybe Genesis) stable. They are doing pretty good at improving already. It's all about that money. Take a look at the big boys of Toyota vs. the big boys of Jaguar. One is non luxury, the other isn't. One is wildly successfuly, the other is not so much.
#39
Lexus Fanatic
Right but do you get my point? Kia's are cheaper than Hyundai's. Dodges are cheaper than Chryslers. It's all about "stepping up" so to speak.
Try the new 300C. It makes you go, Chrysler?
Originally Posted by trexlexus
Those who can afford the nice cars want to feel "a cut above".
However, there is definitely a group of buyers out there who by the virtue of having come up through the recession don't have the same draw to brand. They like the idea of flying under the radar, and brand's effects on up and coming generations are yet to be seen.
People at all price points want value, and these cars bring a lot of value to the table. Nobody is saying that people are going to leave the S Class in droves, but perhaps a buyer that might ultimately wind up in an S Class winds up in an Equus instead. Or someone who was going to buy a C class buys a Genesis instead to get a model class up for the same money, and then moves on to an Equus.
Hyundai should rethink their lineup strategy, axe the Equus, and focus on improving their Accent to Azera (maybe Genesis) stable. They are doing pretty good at improving already. It's all about that money.
This is the same problem that cursed the US Phaeton. It is a little wierd to be a Phaeton (Equus) shopper who is looking at cars inside the same dealer building as the shopper who is looking at a Golf (Accent).
How can Ford sell a $55,000 Explorer, yet a $55,000 Equus is a stupid idea?
The market is different than it was 10, even 5 years ago.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-28-13 at 05:05 PM.
#40
I'm just saying you can't knock the Equus for not being quite the quality of the S Class given the disparity in price
The Equus competition is the Phaeton (2015 in 2014) not Tier 1's. If you want to throw the Equus into a comparison with a LS, S, 7, A8 and XJ it's because they are all full size RWD sedans. Not because they are in the same tier.
Can this change? Sure give Hyundai 10 years and a luxury division. Till then Hyundai is an upscale make from mainstream. Some premium models at the far end of the model line-up but nothing remotely worthy of Tier 1 status. To quote trexlexus - I got a good chuckle out of that one
The Equus and the Genesis really are excellent vehicles that offer first class luxury quality
Curious as to which 300 you sampled. As I found both the 300 and Genesis on par with each other. Nice features, content and some nice materials - other cost cutting measures and some cheap materials
#41
Lexus Fanatic
The Lexus on the other hand is right on par in quality and every category with the S-Class (save for two things 1. badge and 2. a plethora of power trains).
As to the S vs the LS. The S is clearly a step above the LS IMHO. You pay a big premium, no doubt but its an echelon higher. Bigger, more imposing, way more options and creature comforts. I personally don't really get it and my money would buy the LS, or perhaps an A8, but the S class is the ultimate full size luxury sedan.
The Equus competition is the Phaeton (2015 in 2014) not Tier 1's. If you want to throw the Equus into a comparison with a LS, S, 7, A8 and XJ it's because they are all full size RWD sedans. Not because they are in the same tier.
When you look at the specs, the Equus competes. When you look at size, amenities, ride and drive, its very comparable. What makes it a lesser "tier"? They don't have the brand, but as I've said for some people thats a plus.
Some premium models at the far end of the model line-up but nothing remotely worthy of Tier 1 status.
I didn't use Toyota is to Lexus because Lexus is a Tier 1
Its all about brand for you, and thats fine. Those people are always going to be there. However, there are plenty of consumers out there that not only don't care about brand, they don't want the attention or the statement that a luxury brand makes. They want the quality, the amenities, and the driving experience, but they would just as well let people assume its a Passat, or a Sonata. As the younger generations come to the point where they can buy such cars, you're going to see it even more.
Curious as to which 300 you sampled. As I found both the 300 and Genesis on par with each other. Nice features, content and some nice materials - other cost cutting measures and some cheap materials
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-28-13 at 05:54 PM.
#42
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Your LS example was out of context and yet another unnecessary jab at Lexus. This discussion is about the Equus, not the LS.
Also since you didn't get the point of my reply, let me clarify. The LS was an exception to the value quotient *at that point in time*. It redefined the "you get what you pay for" quotient at the time, since it innovated in many areas and was superior to the segment leaders in quite a number of ways.
Also since you didn't get the point of my reply, let me clarify. The LS was an exception to the value quotient *at that point in time*. It redefined the "you get what you pay for" quotient at the time, since it innovated in many areas and was superior to the segment leaders in quite a number of ways.
At least they HAVE a very powerful v8 rwd large luxury sedan. Does Cadillac even offer a v8 these days? Acura sure doesn't. Does Buick? Lincoln? Lexus has the LS but that's it (in sedans). Hyundai has the Genesis too for now at least.
Even if the Equus does nothing more than make the competition better, I for one am happy it exists!
#43
As to the S vs the LS. The S is clearly a step above the LS IMHO. You pay a big premium, no doubt but its an echelon higher. Bigger, more imposing, way more options and creature comforts. I personally don't really get it and my money would buy the LS, or perhaps an A8, but the S class is the ultimate full size luxury sedan.
Phaeton was pretty cool. Where else could you get a full size sedan with a W12 in it?! Part of the problem VW faced was they wanted to make it more part of their sales numbers than elevating the brand by offering such a vehicle. To that end, its sales figures were dismal.
Never driven the Equus. Sat in it. Friend of mine just got a new Genesis 5.0 R-Spec. Fun car but I'd never own one.
I'll give you that
#44
Originally Posted by SW10
However, there is definitely a group of buyers out there who by the virtue of having come up through the recession don't have the same draw to brand. They like the idea of flying under the radar, and brand's effects on up and coming generations are yet to be seen.
People at all price points want value, and these cars bring a lot of value to the table. Nobody is saying that people are going to leave the S Class in droves, but perhaps a buyer that might ultimately wind up in an S Class winds up in an Equus instead. Or someone who was going to buy a C class buys a Genesis instead to get a model class up for the same money, and then moves on to an Equus.
People at all price points want value, and these cars bring a lot of value to the table. Nobody is saying that people are going to leave the S Class in droves, but perhaps a buyer that might ultimately wind up in an S Class winds up in an Equus instead. Or someone who was going to buy a C class buys a Genesis instead to get a model class up for the same money, and then moves on to an Equus.
Originally Posted by sw10
Would it surprise you to know that VW is bringing the Phaeton back in 2014? Remember now they sell $65,000 VW Toureg's handily, they sell $45,000 loaded VW CC's. A loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee is $57,000, a loaded Explorer is $55,000.
I assume you live in America. Ever see those big honking F350s/Silverado HD 3500s? Those big boys cost 65k fully loaded. And I am probably understating it too. Those things carry with them the most mainstream badges you will ever see. Ford/Chevy. And not to mention they are also WORK TRUCKS. People buy them and drive them even if they dont own a ranch. They buy them for the image of "tough" etc, and they also HAVE MONEY.
Noone is going to argue the class of a base BMW 5, over an F350. Even if that truck costs more.
Why did i bring that up? Because we are talking about cars and their roles. The trucks above, costing as much as some full size luxury sedan MSRPs, have a role to fulfill. They occupy the niche of "Big work truck". There is a reason why the Toyota Tundra cannot penetrate into the market very well. Even worse, how many Honda Ridgelines/Nissan Titans do you see compared to the Toyota? When people go for something of high dollar value, brand loyalty is extreme. Sure, like you said earlier, some people (Tundras) will convert. But the vast majority stay loyal (Ford/Chevy/Ram).
VW in America has a niche as a mainstream car brand. The Phaeton may be coming back, but I am not sure if it will come back as a 12 cylinder powerhouse. Even though it was impressive, few cared, a la it's extinction in the early 2000s.
Unfortunately, Hyundai also has a mainstream badge. Few will justify paying a big premium for a massive Accent. Some will. Most wont.
Originally Posted by sw10es
Says you. I think BMW and MB owners would put Lexus, Infiniti and maybe Audi on a lower tier. I still feel a Lexus doesn't have the same brand prestige as a BMW or Mercedes.
Here is a general scale of reactions in the US you will see whenever you tell someone you bought a:
Toyota/Hyundai/Ford etc: Oh, that's a nice car.
Buick/Acuras etc.: Hey thats a nice car!
Lexus/BMW/Audi/MB: Ohhhhh.... Niceeeeee.
Bentley: Wow....
RR: Those who are familiar: Wow.
Most who aren't: Huh?
Lambos/Ferraris/exotics: OMG!
On this board, we are car lovers, so we passionately talk about things in the market, and how automakers are doing etc. But outside of this lovely world, people don't care. They just need an appliance that will get them from A to B. Some just like nicer appliances. Few even have the notion that Lexus is a Super Toyota. Lexus has become a household luxury name.
Originally Posted by sw10
Its all about brand for you, and thats fine. Those people are always going to be there. However, there are plenty of consumers out there that not only don't care about brand, they don't want the attention or the statement that a luxury brand makes. They want the quality, the amenities, and the driving experience, but they would just as well let people assume its a Passat, or a Sonata. As the younger generations come to the point where they can buy such cars, you're going to see it even more.
Luxury cars abound on campus. Kids drive to impress other kids. The market that cares less will be the child rearing one, because they need the minivans.
#45
From the tiny, anemic looking segmented LCD digital clock, the excessive play that the center controls have (most notably the temperature and preset buttons) to the fact the auto-up on the windows slam shut instead of slowing down the last few inches of travel, this car does not have the refinement or attention to detail that Toyota has in the ES. The only touch item that felt truly high end and solid is the rotary **** for the Nav. You criticize the plastics on the ES's lower panels, but did you touch the steering wheel on the Genesis?? Wow the entire center area is completely made of the same shiny, cheap plastic across Hyundai's "lesser" models-- that's primo hand/touch real estate and pretty unforgivable.
If anything I'd say Hyundai did a nicer job with the exterior than the interior in terms of evoking luxury, albeit derivative. I would say the Genesis is closing in on the ES and has surpassed it in several areas, but not in the overall interior department. It still needs an extra dose of Kim Chee for that.
Last edited by amphipri0n; 03-28-13 at 09:21 PM.