Sens4Miles

Why would a brand want to axe the best it can offer? Like it or not, the Equus is the flagship of Hyundai. It is the absolute best vehicle they offer at this time. To axe it, when sales are only increasing, would be ridiculous.

I do agree that selling a Full Size Premium Luxury Sedan under the name "Hyundai" is a bad idea in the long run, but we do not know what plans Hyundai may have for the future. What they should do in my opinion is build up their quality, have the Equus become a solid staple in their Hyundai lineup, and at some point in the future launch a separate brand under the name EQUUS. At that point, they will have built up their reputation as being capable of building solid Tier 1 vehicles and perhaps at that point can steal some customers away from the big players and other Tier 2 makes (Acura, Lincoln, Volvo, etc). Baby steps.

trexlexus

I suggested killing off the Equus because it is out of place for the brand. It is no different than Toyota selling the LS as the Celsior here. Very hard thing for US customers to justify, as shown from the VW Phaeton.

In my personal opinion, i think they would be better off taking a chance to just create an upstart brand. THAT is where Hyundai has an advantage. Let's say that Hyundai spins off the brand Skorea. If Skorea is a complete turd and sells way under expectations, axe it ad continue on with Hyundai's mad profits (a few years ago they were the automaker with the highest profits). No big deal for such a big company. If Skorea is successful, good on them. This is Hyundai's advantage because they already have a brand established in selling cars. Other upstarts were not so successful. Alfa Romeo tried sellling in the US, then it figured it was not worth it (though rumors are they are coming back). Same thing happened with Suzuki. Now that they dont sell in the US, they have virtually no income from us.

mmarshall

If Hyundai would expand its availability (currently the Equus is sold only at selected Hyundai shops) and give it a real exterior paint-color choice, I think we'd see those numbers go up some.

SW17LS

Remember...I am this buyer, so I know. Value is important at all price points, perhaps even moreso when you start talking about higher income higher wealth individuals.

I find it kind of silly for you to be trying to inform me about buyers who are spending $50k+ when I am that buyer.

I never said they did, in fact I said those models loaded were those prices. My point was midmarket carmakers are selling vehicles at price points previously reserved for luxury marques...and succeeding. Its different out there today.

Yes, MD is in America.

You're not understating it, overstating it slightly.

We will have to wait and see, but I think enough will that they'll be able to hit their sales targets. Dominance is not the only measure of success.

Calling it a massive Accent proves you don't know anything about the car.

The look of the interior is plain, I agree. It reminds me a lot of a late 90s Lexus interior. Again, remember the Genesis is old...wait for the new one.

I personally care more about quality than flash. 2013 ES interior is all flash and no quality, doesn't appeal to me. When you sit in a Genesis the quality is obvious, you can deny that if you want the reality is what the reality is.

Thats what you don't understand, they want to move their brand upmarket. Toyota decided to create a luxury brand for the LS, Hyundai did not. Different approaches, we will have to see how it turns out.

As for the Phaeton, that was 10 years ago, the world is different now. Do I think buyers are going to abandon Lexus and BMW and MB in droves for Hyundai? No. Do I think Hyundai can get enough appeal to sell maybe 40k Genesis sedans and maybe 10k Equus sedans a year? Yes. Their brand image has come so far in such a short time, its only going to get better.

trexlexus

Please realize i am not trying to label you as anything, nor am i trying to explain what you are doing. I am merely stating the fact that buyers who spend that much money on a vehicle, AS A MAJORITY, care about brand image. There are always minority buyers who look at value over other things. But they are still the smaller slice of the pie. You may very well be one of them, I do not profess to know who you are. And quite frankly i do not want to offend you either.
I overstated it by $600. Nevertheless with tax included, those big work trucks can cost 65k.
Look at the F350 King Ranch. I admit that i was very surprised seeing those price tags, as I always associated trucks with lower prices. That article was the one that opened my eyes.
http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/...s/viewall.html
I was overgeneralizing to the extreme. There are obvious craftsmanship differences between an Accent and Equus. However, like i was saying earlier, many who buy into this level of vehicle, see the badge as a huge factor. Before you are so quick to attack, saying I know nothing about said vehicle, hear me out: there is a justifiable reason why lesser known brands do not sell as well. They lack panache. Jaguar hasn't been doing as hot as the original Lexus/MB/BMW trio. Heck, even Audi is only beginning to make its resurgence of sales in the US. And back in Europe, it is a cache badge. For the reason above, our beloved Lexus brand does not sell hotly in Europe. Hyundai is suffering worse because the H is attached to mainstream vehicles as well. Why do you think the original Genesis had no H badging except on the rear, and wheels? Even the newer luxury Hyundais make very little use of their H. A majority people will see the H badge and not be impressed. Therefore, the buyers who do the impressing will be a little put off.
No, I fully understand what they are trying to do. It is evident that they are trying to move upmarket, and that was started with the Genesis. However, it is an intense uphill battle, when the same lot that sells the 50k Equus is also home to 15k Accents. (Let me restate, I am not saying the Equus is the same as an Accent)

amphipri0n

I completely agree, I think the only reason they would discontinue the line is if it completely missed their sales expectations and even then, they would still let this puppy breed for at least a couple more generations to recoup some of the massive amounts of R&D in the car. (half a billion USD)

I think Hyundai squeezing its way into the near-luxury and luxury space is a good thing (as competition always is) for average consumers. But, I don't think it will work as a long-term strategy without separating the brand into a mass-market and luxury nameplate. (I'll make sure to dig this post up 4 years from now if they decide to do that.) BUT, even if they did that, before any Korean brand is perceived with prestige, it will require a status upgrade for the entire country itself. It is way far off from this (lacking First World status, also see crazy dictator from the Northern half)

Luxury goods are tied to their countries of origin. Unless you're talking about food staples or minerals, if it's something that is manufactured, that country needs to be enviable which unfortunately "Korea" as whole, is not.

Blanket statements are funny

Sens4Miles

Do you honestly believe that Hyundai not offering the Equus in other colors besides Black, White, Gray, & Silver is hurting its sales?

I don't know about your area, but here in NYC, 90% of all S Class, LS, 7 Series, etc are Black. The rest are a mix between Silver & White mostly. I seriously doubt Hyundai offering the Equus in Red, Blue, or Pink is going to bring them significant sales increases for that model. The reason why Hyundai is only offering the Equus in those 4 colors at this time is because those are the colors that sell. Those are the colors people shopping in this class want.

I've seen you beat this Equus lack of color choice horse time and time again, but I completely disagree that that is the reason why their sales numbers are lower than other premium luxury sedans. Maybe in time they will add more color choices, but for now it's completely unnecessary for them to do so.

As far as availability is concerned, it most likely has to do with the location of those Hyundai dealers and the income bracket demographics for those areas. I'm sure the select dealers where the Equus is available was done so based on solid statistics for those areas.

LexBob2

Knowing where the selected Equus dealerships are located in my general area, I'd say they are properly located to hit the target market for this type of car. Probably no need to expand dealershipss at this point.

trexlexus

Not to stir up politics, but South Korea is very first world and urbanized (unless of course, you are talking about it's pesky Northern buddy).. More so than some US states. I think some Korean products are very highly regarded and respected, including Samsung and Hyundai. But there's a difference between high regard and prestige.

oldcajun

I asked my Lexus sales person about LS colors. Virtually every one sold here in Tucson is either black, white, grey, or silver. They did have a Matador Red F Sport, but it sold only with a very large discount.

The large market for sedans over $60K are us senior citizens who have paid off our homes, have no children still in university, and lots of disposable funds. I want a car that rides smoothly, has a large luxurious interior, and is reliable. For me the LS is the car of choice over the S Class by a small margin. I am really considering the Equus as a replacement for my LS since the new LS is stiffer riding and noiser. The fact that it is $15K cheaper is gravy. I worked hard to get to my current status in life, and I don't like wasting money. I could care less about brand prestige. I don't need to impress anyone about how rich I am. That is childish and important to those who have not made it. I don't need to impress anyone but myself.
Steve

vasy

Very well said. I'm also considering a new Equus. I don't care what others think of my car. The only thing about Equus I'm hesitant is the mandatory air suspension. I keep my cars for a very long time, as long as it runs. But air struts will eventually fail and they are costly to replace. The 2014 Equus has HUD (head-up display) that LS 460 doesn't offer. Equus' cameras can give you full 360 view when in reverse. Equus does have much fewer user-configurable settings (such as turning off DRL) than LS. Equus' TPMS does not display psi reading. It's headlight is not as good as 2013 LS'. But overall it's a very good bargain.

mmarshall

I don't think that color was the main issue there. The Matador Red is a stunning paint-job....one of the best Lexus has ever done. More likely, it is the LS F-Sport package itself. Most LS buyers want traditional LS ride-comfort/refinement, not quick steering response or a firm suspension over bumps. Same with the Mercedes S-class, which is why (also because of its stratospheric price) not many AMG S models are sold compared to other AMG versions.

For those who actually buy their vehicles, yes, that's true.....but leasing often allows those with lower-incomes (or other debts) to get into expensive cars by lowering the monthly-payments, and, in some cases, deducting the payments on their Federal taxes if they use the car for buisness.


You make some excellent points. .....and you are exactly the type of auto-buyer that most of the auto-industry is simply ignoring these days (note how the Lincoln Town Car, Cadillac DTS, and Buick Lucerne are now gone). Fortunately, the Equus, except for its somewhat insulting color-choice, addreses some of those concerns.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Actually let me correct you there for at least my area Mike. To date we have sold only a handful of the standard LS460's and LS460L's (We also have a LS600hL which will probably continue to sit on the lot) we currently do not have any in stock standard 460's. In contrast we've sold the F-Sport in droves, at least three times the amount. Currently have several in stock too.

AMG's aren't necessarily built for volume, but more for bragging rights of the AMG badge, and obviously the larger the price tag the fewer you'll sell.

trexlexus

Hoovey, the F sport LS is outselling the normal one? Wow... That was unexpected. I would've thought that the F sport would be a small niche model.

mmarshall

The days when cars could be marketed like Henry Ford did 90 years ago......"You can have my Model T in any color you want, as long as it is black".....are long gone.


I agree that (by today's standards) pink would be out of place on a car like the Equus. But I don't see anything wrong with at least some shades of blue and red, although fire-engine red or electric (Ultrasonic) blue would also be questionable.

BTW, where I live (and a lot of new cars are sold in this vast high-income D.C.-area) I see a lot of LS models in various colors. The Mercedes S-Class models in this area, like yours, are mostly black/silver/white, but that is because that is the way dealerships order them. I've had some people tell me that they wanted other colors, but that dealershps just weren't getting any....or that they were being allotted that way.

Your opinion noted. Yes, I've mentioned it several times before, but the four-color-choice isn't the only thing holding up Equus sales. You fail to note that I also (correctly) pointed out that Equus models are not available at all Hyundai shops (only selected ones), and that Hyundai's brand-name disassociation with luxury-cars, in the general public's eye, is also a problem, though it shouldn't be. Hyundai, with the Equus, has shown that it can also play in that field...if it simply markets the car better.




Now you're talking. Yes, there are definitely factors....but so are the colors.