Good point. But Skorea, IMO, wouldn't really be the right name for a new luxo-Hyundai division. In fact, the name "Equus" itself, for the new division, would probably have a better ring to it....it would compete better with the name "Lexus", though if the corporation actually did that, some Hyundai-Phobes would keep tossing more stones and accusing them of "copying".

 

Well at my dealership it is. I checked the books and we've sold about 3 regular LS460's and three times that in F-Sport trim since the 2013 model came out.

 

What part of CA are you in? The L.A./SoCal region, of course, is a good sales-area for "sport"-oriented models. But, if that pattern holds up statewide or nationwide, it will be quite interesting. I'm a little skeptic, though.

 

Ya, i know lol. Just suggested the name skorea because i have no idea what they should be named, and seeing as Hyundai is from S Korea, why not mush em together? Lol

I remember talks about the Genesis actually being a luxury nameplate for Hyundai in the future.

 

Agreed. Both Genesis and Equus would probably be good names for an upmarket Hyundai division. The question, though, right now, is if Hyundai actually has the money for it. It takes lots of $$$$$$ to start a new division, and when Mazda tried it in the 1990s, their Ford bosses decided that the cash just wasn't there. That's why the Mazda Millenia, originally meant for the new Amati division that never got going, ended up being the Mazda flagship instead.

 

Actually, I think Hyundai definately has the funds to get a new brand going. Mazda was and still is not near the top of the auto world. Hyundai, with Kia, is the 4th biggest auto company, as of 2010. And in addition it was THE most profitable company in 2012. (Guess those derivative designs save lots on research and development, lol jokes).
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-bmw-cars.html

On, the other hand, this is why I suggested Hyundai forget about trying to move upmarket, and instead focus on fighting the mainstream brands for dominance. Afterall, Toyota and VW, are not luxury nameplates, but NOONE can deny their financial success.

 

The Bay Area or more specific the East Bay (Blackhawk, Alamo, Danville, Diablo or the I680 corridor). Huge market for BMW, Lexus, Audi, MBZ, Jaguar, and Porsche. It's also not to uncommon to see Maserati, Aston Martin, and then a Bentley and Rolls or two as well. There are also about 7 Tesla S's I see on a regular basis. The Lambos and Ferraris and a Carrera GT tend to come out when the weather is nicer, usually around May

 

Originally Posted by SW10ES: "Have you driven an Equus to comment on how it compares to an LS? I have and found it pretty darn comparable in a lot of ways. Ask CL member "Kansas", an LS owner for 23 years what he thinks of the Equus."

Since Steve jerked my chain, I'll put in my three cents: Every Lexus LS enthusiast should drive an Equus before throwing rocks at it. Comments on this thread remind me that some people questioned my judgement and at least one called me stupid when I bought one of the first LS400's.

On Columbus Day, 2011, I test drove an Equus and an LS460L AWD back to back. If I remember correctly, both had air suspension and the list price of the Equus was right at $30,000 less than the LS460L AWD. The Equus salesman was "pumped" that day having just had someone trade his LS460 in on an Equus.

The Equus was great fun to drive - flung it around corners and traffic circles like a BMW 5-series. The LS460L was far from fun to drive - like steering an ocean liner ... I cut the test drive short ... just wanted to get it over.

I was stunned when I later checked the dimensions of the two cars and found that the Equus was a little larger than the LS460L. The Equus felt much smaller from the driver seat.

I couldn't tell any difference in the quality of materials between the two cars but I would have had to spend more time with the Equus to be sure. Hyundais owned by friends and relatives are aging well so that bodes well for the Equus.

Hyundai seems to be getting a slow start with the Equus although, now that I think about it, I've seen more of them on the road lately than LS460's.

As much as I liked the Equus, I doubt that I am going to buy one. I'm even less likely to buy another Lexus LS. Our needs are changing as we near retirement.

The top two vehicles in the running to replace my aging but still wonderful 2000 LS4000 probably seem very different: 1) Top of the line Toyota Avalon Limited Hybrid with all options including PCS. 2) Top of the line Toyota Sienna Limited AWD with almost options but including PCS. Got to have PCS - incredible feature. My CPA wife wants me to buy the Avalon Hybrid for its fuel economy but says she is OK with me buying the Sienna which is my pick.

When I do finally buy one of those two Toyotas (e.g. next time another fool texting while driving hits me), I will have to drive right past the Hyundai/Equus dealership to get there. Who knows what might happen ....

 

maybe new highlander? its a mix between the two :-)

 

trexlexus needs to read this 2-3 times. This is from the horse's mouth remember, he IS the typical buyer.

Sorry, but as I've said many times as a 10 year ES veteran I find the interior of the 2013 ES to have unacceptably cheap materials in places. Its not a "blanket statement", the materials are the same on every ES. They may be "good enough" for you, but to me "good enough" and "luxury car" don't go together.

 

Let me get my jab in. The ES is a pathetic excuse for a "Luxury car" and Lexus should be ashamed to put the L badge on it. The doors, the center console, the glove box. It's all cheap, it's sickening.

Resume Equus talk hah

 

After owning two ES 350's, Sadly, I agree with your cheapness comments.Forced me into a GS and I'm very happy.

As far as the Equus goes, again a lot of car for the money.

 

Reading it once is quite enough. The poster fits into the the typical buyer description money-wise, yes. He definately can afford the sedan and can definately choose whether or not he wants it. In this case, he clearly stated that brand/prestige does not matter for him. Good on him. He is purchasing the car that he wants. I am happy for him.

HOWEVER, he does not fit into the typical buyer of this class. As the sales numbers show for the big flagship luxury sedans, brand seems to be pretty important. If it was not important at all, then I see no reason why the Equus would have significantly smaller sales numbers. It has been advertised, it is definately from a reputable brand, and it is cheaper. It is very well made, and can definately hang with the other major players. Sure, there may be some small price cutting and other niggles, but for over $30k less than the competition, that is to be expected.

Summary: Buyers who do not care about prestige/brad exist, as shown in the above posts. Sales numbers of all competitors show that brand seems to be pretty important.

 

I think the importance of brand is only going to degrade, thats my point.

The Equus has significantly smaller sales numbers for a myriad of reasons:

1. Brand image
2. MUCH smaller dealer network (few Hyundai dealers can sell the Equus)
3. Consumers know of its existence less than they do other competitors.
4. Much lower production volume

You have to remember a lot of these buyers aren't sitting on the internet talking about these things. They're going to find out about the Equus from seeing it on the road, seeing it at the country club, etc. Its going to take time for it to catch on, and even when it does its not likely to or intended to be a volume car. These buyers, like Jim and oldcajun are accustomed to driving cars at this level, and they are no longer "aspiring to" a certain car, hence why brand is less important.

To somebody like me, I will admit the brand and prestige is still important to me, hence why I didn't go for the Genesis or the Equus. Quite honestly, since I'm an LS guy on a GS budget the Equus would have been perfect for me.

They're working on the dealer experience:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/26/h...remium-models/

 

i would 100% agree with you on that. The problem is that is going to take a lot of time. Time that Hyundai should not (imo) waste. No other luxury marque sells $15k vehicles. The fact that the Elantra/Accent exist only hurt the Equus potential. In my view, Hyundai has 2 paths for success with what they are doing currently:

1. Kill everything below the Genesis, and start reinventing itself as luxury.
2. Kill Equus or Genesis, or both, and improve Azera downwards.

Obviously option 1 is harder. That is just my opinion.
Again, I agree with what you are saying here. The thing is though, brand is THE most important thing. The Equus may not be as well known, but that is because it is new. It is being advertised sufficiently though. By contrast, the S class and 7 series are not advertised to the public as much, but they are pretty consistent with success. To the production volume thing: If a buyer really wanted a product, there is a pretty good chance they would wait. Kind of a chicken/egg thing. Especially if they are cross shopping and determined that product X is better than Y.

The Hyundai brand is still unfortunately stuck on the car, as a result, sales will not bound yet. Perception has a lot to do with the car market.

Toyota/Honda/Nissan have an air of "untouchable reliability" surrounding them. They are blessed. As a result, they are almost consistently selling the top 3 compact/midsize sedans. Whether or not they really have reliability is up to you. But the public perceives them as much better than the competition. Therefore, they do well. Their brands create confidence in the buyer.

If i were to create an upstart brand named ToyoKiller, and my cars were proven numerous times by magazines/reviewers to have better safety, 0-60, utility, reliability, and have infinite MPG, I am willing to bet i would still be out competed by the Japanese 3. That is because my brand has no public perception. But eventually i would be successful. But that is because I have a new brand. Hyundai is still Hyundai.

To bring back memories: Recall when the Chevy Volt was about to come out. GM advertised it as getting 230 mpg. That is not a typo. Two hundred and thirty. Going on advertising alone, that car would have been dang successful. However, a combination of not really 230, the Chevy badge, and other factors, it did not fare too well. If it was the Toyota Volt though, I would expect different results.
http://www.mapawatt.com/2009/08/15/t...rketing-scheme