Ford, GM to collaborate on 9- and 10-speed transmissions
#1
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Ford, GM to collaborate on 9- and 10-speed transmissions
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Ford and GM to Jointly Develop Advanced Nine- and 10-Speed Automatic Transmissions
- New project to build on success of previous collaborations
- Initial design and engineering work is already under way
- New transmissions will improve fuel economy and enhance performance
DEARBORN, Mich., April 15, 2013 – Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation have signed an agreement under which both companies will jointly develop an all-new generation of advanced-technology nine- and 10-speed automatic transmissions for cars, crossovers, SUVs and trucks.
The new transmissions, to be built in both front- and rear-wheel-drive variants, will improve vehicle performance and increase fuel economy.
The collaboration enables both automakers to design, develop, engineer, test, validate and deliver these new transmissions for their vehicles faster and at lower cost than if each company worked independently.
"Engineering teams from GM and Ford have already started initial design work on these new transmissions," said Jim Lanzon, GM vice president of global transmission engineering. "We expect these new transmissions to raise the standard of technology, performance and quality for our customers while helping drive fuel economy improvements into both companies' future product portfolios."
A track record of success
This new agreement marks the third time in the past decade that GM and Ford have collaborated on transmissions. These collaborative efforts have enabled both companies together to deliver more than 8 million durable, high-quality six-speed front-wheel-drive transmissions to customers around the globe.
Ford installs these six-speed transmissions in some of America's favorite vehicles, such as the Ford Fusion family sedan, the Ford Edge crossover and Ford Escape and Explorer SUVs, while GM installs them into a variety of high-volume, award-winning products such as the Chevrolet Malibu, Chevrolet Traverse, Chevrolet Equinox and Chevrolet Cruze.
That original collaboration served as a template for the new one. As before, each company will manufacture its own transmissions in its own plants with many common components.
"The goal is to keep hardware identical in the Ford and GM transmissions. This will maximize parts commonality and give both companies economy of scale," said Craig Renneker, Ford's
chief engineer for transmission and driveline component and pre-program engineering. "However, we will each use our own control software to ensure that each transmission is carefully matched to the individual brand-specific vehicle DNA for each company."
"With the jointly developed six-speed automatics we have in production today, we've already proven that Ford and GM transmission engineers work extremely well together," said Joe Bakaj, Ford vice president of powertrain engineering. "Our front-wheel-drive transmissions have exceeded expectations and there is every reason to believe we will have the same success with these all-new transmissions."
"This agreement provides tremendous benefits for both companies, and it will pay big dividends for our customers and shareholders," added Lanzon. "By jointly sharing the development of these two new families of transmissions, both GM and Ford will be able to more efficiently use our respective manpower resources to develop additional future advanced transmissions and bring them to market faster than if we worked alone."
Further technical details and vehicle applications for these transmissions will be released by each company at the appropriate time before launch.
- New project to build on success of previous collaborations
- Initial design and engineering work is already under way
- New transmissions will improve fuel economy and enhance performance
DEARBORN, Mich., April 15, 2013 – Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation have signed an agreement under which both companies will jointly develop an all-new generation of advanced-technology nine- and 10-speed automatic transmissions for cars, crossovers, SUVs and trucks.
The new transmissions, to be built in both front- and rear-wheel-drive variants, will improve vehicle performance and increase fuel economy.
The collaboration enables both automakers to design, develop, engineer, test, validate and deliver these new transmissions for their vehicles faster and at lower cost than if each company worked independently.
"Engineering teams from GM and Ford have already started initial design work on these new transmissions," said Jim Lanzon, GM vice president of global transmission engineering. "We expect these new transmissions to raise the standard of technology, performance and quality for our customers while helping drive fuel economy improvements into both companies' future product portfolios."
A track record of success
This new agreement marks the third time in the past decade that GM and Ford have collaborated on transmissions. These collaborative efforts have enabled both companies together to deliver more than 8 million durable, high-quality six-speed front-wheel-drive transmissions to customers around the globe.
Ford installs these six-speed transmissions in some of America's favorite vehicles, such as the Ford Fusion family sedan, the Ford Edge crossover and Ford Escape and Explorer SUVs, while GM installs them into a variety of high-volume, award-winning products such as the Chevrolet Malibu, Chevrolet Traverse, Chevrolet Equinox and Chevrolet Cruze.
That original collaboration served as a template for the new one. As before, each company will manufacture its own transmissions in its own plants with many common components.
"The goal is to keep hardware identical in the Ford and GM transmissions. This will maximize parts commonality and give both companies economy of scale," said Craig Renneker, Ford's
chief engineer for transmission and driveline component and pre-program engineering. "However, we will each use our own control software to ensure that each transmission is carefully matched to the individual brand-specific vehicle DNA for each company."
"With the jointly developed six-speed automatics we have in production today, we've already proven that Ford and GM transmission engineers work extremely well together," said Joe Bakaj, Ford vice president of powertrain engineering. "Our front-wheel-drive transmissions have exceeded expectations and there is every reason to believe we will have the same success with these all-new transmissions."
"This agreement provides tremendous benefits for both companies, and it will pay big dividends for our customers and shareholders," added Lanzon. "By jointly sharing the development of these two new families of transmissions, both GM and Ford will be able to more efficiently use our respective manpower resources to develop additional future advanced transmissions and bring them to market faster than if we worked alone."
Further technical details and vehicle applications for these transmissions will be released by each company at the appropriate time before launch.
#3
Lexus Fanatic
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Exactly. The more individual gear ratios you use in a transmission, the closer you get to a CVT. Many CVT's though, still have one Achilles heel (besides their sometimes rubber-band/motorboat driving-characteristics)...the inability of the drive-belts to handle a lot of torque without excessive or premature wear, though recent ones are somewhat more power-capable than in the past.
#4
Lexus Champion
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ZF:
Source: Autoblog
The new metal CVT drive belts are much more robust than the old rubber ones. The added benefit is that you can "push" the metal belts which you could not do with the rubber ones. Ever try to push a rubber band?
The problem with CVTs is that they cannot handle much torque without slipping (that's where the pushable metal belt helps); gear teeth give you that grip you need to handle high torque loads. Slip a bit and efficiency drops; slip a lot and you get no output from the transmission.
The CVT should be very efficient: with infinite ratios between low-gear and high-gear, you can keep engine at the most optimum rpm for the circumstances, all without discernable gear hunting.
The problem with ever greater number of gears in a conventional, torque convertor automatic is added number of components, added weight, added complexity, increased likelihood of failure, leading eventually to decreased efficiency. There is also the problem of continual hunting for gears (which drivers may not like), which adds to increased wear and tear on the transmission.
"There is no hard line, but you have to consider the law of diminishing returns. The question is whether adding even more gears makes sense," he said, speaking at the Automobilwoche Congress in Germany. Back in July, ZF North American president Julio Caspari voiced similar statements, saying that today's best automatic transmissions are very nearly perfect – just 11 percent shy of their theoretical apogee – in efficiency.
Exactly. The more individual gear ratios you use in a transmission, the closer you get to a CVT. Many CVT's though, still have one Achilles heel (besides their sometimes rubber-band/motorboat driving-characteristics)...the inability of the drive-belts to handle a lot of torque without excessive or premature wear, though recent ones are somewhat more power-capable than in the past.
The problem with CVTs is that they cannot handle much torque without slipping (that's where the pushable metal belt helps); gear teeth give you that grip you need to handle high torque loads. Slip a bit and efficiency drops; slip a lot and you get no output from the transmission.
The CVT should be very efficient: with infinite ratios between low-gear and high-gear, you can keep engine at the most optimum rpm for the circumstances, all without discernable gear hunting.
The problem with ever greater number of gears in a conventional, torque convertor automatic is added number of components, added weight, added complexity, increased likelihood of failure, leading eventually to decreased efficiency. There is also the problem of continual hunting for gears (which drivers may not like), which adds to increased wear and tear on the transmission.
#5
Lexus Fanatic
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ZF:
The problem with CVTs is that they cannot handle much torque without slipping (that's where the pushable metal belt helps); gear teeth give you that grip you need to handle high torque loads. Slip a bit and efficiency drops; slip a lot and you get no output from the transmission.
The problem with CVTs is that they cannot handle much torque without slipping (that's where the pushable metal belt helps); gear teeth give you that grip you need to handle high torque loads. Slip a bit and efficiency drops; slip a lot and you get no output from the transmission.
The problem with ever greater number of gears in a conventional, torque convertor automatic is added number of components, added weight, added complexity, increased likelihood of failure, leading eventually to decreased efficiency. There is also the problem of continual hunting for gears (which drivers may not like), which adds to increased wear and tear on the transmission.
In most cases, depending on the closeness/wideness of the ratios, I don't see a need for more than about 5-6 gears or so....except for maybe a 7th for cars designed for extremely high speeds on the German Autobahn.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-16-13 at 10:30 AM.
#6
Lexus Fanatic
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with 9 or 10 gears you won't even notice hunting or even shifting much as all. as for wear, lubricants and precision machining have come so far it's basically a non-issue for at least 100k mi.
#7
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how will you not notice shifting in 10 gear shifter? it should shift more then, right?
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#9
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Well, maybe. Let's see what the inside of these units look like when they have six-digit mileage on them....or have been extensively used in urban stop/go conditions. Many of them are still relatively new.
#10
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#11
Lexus Fanatic
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In all fairness, some of the Lexus automatics I've driven have approached that of the old 50s/60s Buicks for smoothness/refinement.....Lexus engineers, despite the shift-quirks that some 1Gen IS300 and 4Gen ES330 models had, know how to achieve smoothness with an abundance of mechanical parts....electrical shift-governing, if done right, can also help.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-17-13 at 10:44 AM.
#12
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I guess it one way to chase fuel economy standards. Let me remind people how everyone though the LS460 was a freak with 8. Again Lexus leads the way and gets no credit
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Well Ford/GM know it helps with MPG..but for sporty driving its too much for me...all that paddle shifting with 8 is nuts let alone 10 lol