Acura ILX
#181
except CTh is nothing like Prius... it just shares engine (not the actual platform)... while this IS Civic, with 150hp engine for 27k.
And plus, the hybrid is priced the same as CTh.
Why exactly are you defending it? You would never buy this car.
#183
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
true it's not for me, but then i'm not really interested in sedans at all.
i don't believe i'm defending it, i believe i'm commenting on what i believe to be a rather ridiculous overreactive piling on about this car, because it's an acura.
you keep bringing up 27k, 27k, 27k, like that's a lot these days. heck you pay that much for shoes in europe. even if this car were 20k some here would be trashing it.
i just go back to how the acura EL, which was OBVIOUSLY a civic with additional trim, sold well in Canada, appealing to people who want a nice smallish upscale car with a good dealer/service behind it, without going to a higher end luxury brand.
but i'm done on this topic, unless i see more uncontrolled irrational venom appear.
i don't believe i'm defending it, i believe i'm commenting on what i believe to be a rather ridiculous overreactive piling on about this car, because it's an acura.
you keep bringing up 27k, 27k, 27k, like that's a lot these days. heck you pay that much for shoes in europe. even if this car were 20k some here would be trashing it.
i just go back to how the acura EL, which was OBVIOUSLY a civic with additional trim, sold well in Canada, appealing to people who want a nice smallish upscale car with a good dealer/service behind it, without going to a higher end luxury brand.
but i'm done on this topic, unless i see more uncontrolled irrational venom appear.
#185
Lexus Test Driver
i just go back to how the acura EL, which was OBVIOUSLY a civic with additional trim, sold well in Canada, appealing to people who want a nice smallish upscale car with a good dealer/service behind it, without going to a higher end luxury brand.
#186
Lexus Fanatic
Using carryover engines in the ILX for the first year or so could hurt it though. I don't know why they did not use the new ED engines which would have been much better for debuting the new car but it may have to do with a supply issue since the newer Accord is supposed to get the ED engines. The ED engines should improve the fuel economy and performance of the ILX. The main issue with the ILX is what will happen to the TSX. Hopefully the TSX stays, some now are saying it will stay where before they were saying it would be dropped. A type S version of the ILX with a more tuned suspension and 220-230hp would be very nice.
#187
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
The civic has 140hp. The ILX has 150 not that it makes much difference but it is funny seeing how some have such a big problem with the Acura ILX using the same powertrain as a Honda when Lexus has several models that use the same powertrain/hp as a Toyota model-Camry-ES, CTh-Prius, HS250-Camry hybrid, Highlander-RX, Landcruiser-Lexus LX(has 2 more hp), IS250 uses a smaller V6 with less power/acceleration then any American Toyota V6. The ILX is simply a small relatively low priced entry level car. It is not to satisfy enthusiasts as it is so I don't know why some seem to be expecting a S4 or BMW 3 series fighter or for it to have a LS460 interior. It is a decent car for what it is, a lower priced entry level car, it was not made to blow anyone away. The CTh takes about 10 or more seconds to do 0-60 yet many are complaining the ILX is too slow/underpowered. As far as options/model range complaints, there are some oddities but that can easily and quickly be addressed if many customers really want NAV with the 2.4 and other combinations.
Using carryover engines in the ILX for the first year or so could hurt it though. I don't know why they did not use the new ED engines which would have been much better for debuting the new car but it may have to do with a supply issue since the newer Accord is supposed to get the ED engines. The ED engines should improve the fuel economy and performance of the ILX. The main issue with the ILX is what will happen to the TSX. Hopefully the TSX stays, some now are saying it will stay where before they were saying it would be dropped. A type S version of the ILX with a more tuned suspension and 220-230hp would be very nice.
Using carryover engines in the ILX for the first year or so could hurt it though. I don't know why they did not use the new ED engines which would have been much better for debuting the new car but it may have to do with a supply issue since the newer Accord is supposed to get the ED engines. The ED engines should improve the fuel economy and performance of the ILX. The main issue with the ILX is what will happen to the TSX. Hopefully the TSX stays, some now are saying it will stay where before they were saying it would be dropped. A type S version of the ILX with a more tuned suspension and 220-230hp would be very nice.
Some just hate the brand.
A few hate anything but a Lexus or Toyota and absolutely love every model of both lines..
#188
Lexus Champion
#190
Guest
Posts: n/a
Another fact, the HS sales goal was around 24k, it clearly never made it. The ILX is 40k. So the ILX is SUPPOSED to outsell the HS.
The ILX is literally $10,000-$11,000 cheaper. It should sell better. I am saying I doubt it reaches its sales goal. Looking at recent track record of the brands tremendous fail, sadly I don't see the ILX turning things around.
1SICKLEX. no body is defending anything. i don't get paid by Acura or Honda, but i hope you are paid by Lexus for your effort.
i think we are agree that Acura is not the same tier as Lexus. or ILX is not as good as HS. but honestly for 25.9k it is damn good.
Acura is a premium brand and their car all come with good warranty. it is not a bad looking (Actually pretty good), pretty good MPG, okay power. and quite frankly, their standard feature are more complete than any other premium/luxury brand so really, if have 26 grand right now and want to buy a car with good reliability, MPG, well equipped and good warranty. what can i get?
and comments such as "people who don't know cars" just makes me laugh.. what do you consider to "know cars"? when i was 16, i want a high horse power cars , when i was 20, i value more in handling, and now i am married, i value more in space and quite ride. i have my eyes set on a hybrid RX rather than an FT-86, do i know cars more or less?
different cars for different purpose. the ILX is aim toward daily drivers who want good warranty, trouble free ownership, cheap, and good MPG with something that's a little different from Camry/Accord. if you have good alternative, please name them and you will find the ILX is one of the few choices.
i think we are agree that Acura is not the same tier as Lexus. or ILX is not as good as HS. but honestly for 25.9k it is damn good.
Acura is a premium brand and their car all come with good warranty. it is not a bad looking (Actually pretty good), pretty good MPG, okay power. and quite frankly, their standard feature are more complete than any other premium/luxury brand so really, if have 26 grand right now and want to buy a car with good reliability, MPG, well equipped and good warranty. what can i get?
and comments such as "people who don't know cars" just makes me laugh.. what do you consider to "know cars"? when i was 16, i want a high horse power cars , when i was 20, i value more in handling, and now i am married, i value more in space and quite ride. i have my eyes set on a hybrid RX rather than an FT-86, do i know cars more or less?
different cars for different purpose. the ILX is aim toward daily drivers who want good warranty, trouble free ownership, cheap, and good MPG with something that's a little different from Camry/Accord. if you have good alternative, please name them and you will find the ILX is one of the few choices.
Don't mouth off at me again. I've done too much for Car Chat to hear smart comments from someone defending Honda with 60 posts.
We, on the other hand, do think Acura is charging too much for the 2013 ILX. The car itself, while not terribly exciting to drive, is a pretty nice way to get from point A to point B, but so is the Buick Verano, which, with a starting price of $23,470, is several thousand dollars cheaper. If you want a sportier option, we suggest you wait for the upcoming turbocharged Verano that will be available with a six-speed manual – we predict that car will come pretty well equipped for about the same price as the ILX 2.4, except that it will have navigation, a big LCD screen in the dash and considerably more than the ILX's maximum of 201 horsepower.
If you don't care about driving a car wearing a "premium" badge, the Ford Focus Titanium can be had with all the goodies you can get in an ILX – plus a bunch of technology, such as Active Park Assist, that you can't get at all in the Acura – for the same price as the base ILX. And if you do care about having that badge (and the expected reliability and high resale value that goes along with it), the larger and more entertaining TSX sedan can be had for $30,010 – and it includes the bigger 2.4-liter engine and leather as standard equipment.
Acura hopes to find 35,000 buyers for the ILX sedan per year, and they very well may hit that figure. If you're in the market for an entry-level vehicle from a premium automaker, by all means have a look at the ILX... just be sure to check out its competition before signing on the dotted line. As much as we'd like to tell you that the ILX heralds a return to Acura's roots – innovation, value and technology – we can't, because it simply doesn't.
If you don't care about driving a car wearing a "premium" badge, the Ford Focus Titanium can be had with all the goodies you can get in an ILX – plus a bunch of technology, such as Active Park Assist, that you can't get at all in the Acura – for the same price as the base ILX. And if you do care about having that badge (and the expected reliability and high resale value that goes along with it), the larger and more entertaining TSX sedan can be had for $30,010 – and it includes the bigger 2.4-liter engine and leather as standard equipment.
Acura hopes to find 35,000 buyers for the ILX sedan per year, and they very well may hit that figure. If you're in the market for an entry-level vehicle from a premium automaker, by all means have a look at the ILX... just be sure to check out its competition before signing on the dotted line. As much as we'd like to tell you that the ILX heralds a return to Acura's roots – innovation, value and technology – we can't, because it simply doesn't.
http://www.autoextremist.com/current...extremist.html
Acura takes dead aim... at mediocrity.
By Peter M. De Lorenzo
(Posted 12/12, 5:00 p.m.) Detroit. Thirteen months ago I wrote a column (“That’s all you got, Mr. Ito?” - 11/10/2010) about the future of Acura. Flailing and failing, Acura had totally lost its mojo and its raison d’etre, and its leader, Takanobu Ito, pretty much had nothing to offer other than this: “We are having a lot of discussions about Acura and which way it should be going. And what we confirmed is that the brand direction should be smart premium, not top tier… We agreed that smart premium is what we should be targeting with Acura, not the upper-segment vehicles such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz. We must apply advanced technologies which make our vehicle more fun to drive, achieve a more comfortable drive and high environmental performance. "
Last week, Acura executives took the media under the tent ahead of the upcoming Detroit Auto Show, confirming Ito’s leanings from a year ago. Mark Rechtin, reporting for Automotive News, says Acura will settle for offering mid-level premium vehicles that favor fuel economy over performance, even though the company plans on unveiling an environmentally friendly successor to the NSX sports car in Detroit.
To justify their position, Acura executives went on to mock modern day luxury cars as being examples of technical overkill. And much is revealed in the following quotes.
Mike Accavitti, the former head of Dodge who became American Honda's vice president of marketing in August, describes the current luxury market as "too much machine and not enough humanity. Our overweight bodies require overweight engines and more safety systems to protect them. Some of these cars the average driver just can't control. We have been increasing performance beyond the ability of the driver, or we have complicated the driving process."
Gary Evert, division director for advanced automotive planning at Acura R&D, said, "Technology is only as good as the driver. The vehicle almost always has more capability than the driver can handle. Anything outside the customer's understanding is waste."
Sales chief Jeff Conrad insisted that Acura was returning to its original product philosophy, as reported by Rechtin, which revolves around elegant engineering and class-leading fuel economy. And that they would no longer pursue the best-in-class entries from the top-tier automakers.
And Vicki Poponi, American Honda assistant vice president for product planning, added, "Our engineering ego was getting in the way."
Really? That’s hard to fathom because I don’t think anyone in this business would actually accuse Acura of having some sort of engineering ego. Acura has been so far off the radar screen of the “great cars” discussion for so long that the company occupies a strange existence in a netherworld between irrelevance and inconsequence. How can you possibly cultivate an ego around that?
I’m sure the new NSX concept set to be revealed in Detroit will be cool and buzz worthy, but Acura executives are already telegraphing the fact that they view enthusiasts as inconsequential and not really what they’re aiming for, so why bother? Since fewer than 20 percent of Acura’s target buyers in generation Y care about high performance, according to its internal research, why indeed?
Showing a zoomy concept when you plan on backing it up with “smart luxury” as Acura executives are referring to it is a fool’s errand, at best.
Everything these Acura executives are saying indicates to me that the sickness that seems to have swallowed Honda whole over the last half decade or so has completely obliterated any hope for Acura. Dismissing technical excellence as “waste” suggests to me that the executives within Honda assigned to Acura not only have the disease, they’ve had their brains reprogrammed as well.
I wonder if a PA announcement comes over the loudspeaker at Acura headquarters every morning with the following: “Ladies and gentlemen, we don’t care what the powers that be in the automotive world are achieving or aspiring to, because we only aspire to be good enough. After all, it’s much easier to succeed when the target is set low enough. So get to work.”
Calculated mediocrity will never win in this business. Ever. And for Honda and Acura executives to come out – with guns blazing, no less – suggesting that this is their path to righteousness and success is an insult to everyone out their busting their guts to do the best and be the best.
Here is a car company announcing to the world that good enough is indeed good enough, in an automotive world where “good enough” was forever made obsolete with the bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler.
This would all be laughable if it weren’t so patently absurd and pathetic.
As I said a year ago, I’m not looking for Honda to build over-the-top and overpriced offerings for Acura at every turn. I am, however, looking for each and every Acura model that hits the street to offer a level of distinctive driving differentiation and appeal that you just can’t get in the Honda showroom, or anywhere else, for that matter.
And the message I’m hearing from Acura executives is that’s notgonnahappen. It’s not even close to happening, in fact.
Showing up and being present and accounted for isn’t going to cut it for Acura, but that’s exactly what they’re hell-bent on doing. And I don’t get it. Mediocrity isn’t bliss. And there are legions of car executives and car companies that have learned that painful lesson the hardest way possible.
Acura - and Honda - need to make us believe that they actually have a pulse instead of confirming our suspicions that they’re receding into a black hole while becoming something unrecognizable and unfathomable, akin to a mewling morass of mediocrity masquerading as a real car company.
And that’s the High-Octane Truth for this week.
By Peter M. De Lorenzo
(Posted 12/12, 5:00 p.m.) Detroit. Thirteen months ago I wrote a column (“That’s all you got, Mr. Ito?” - 11/10/2010) about the future of Acura. Flailing and failing, Acura had totally lost its mojo and its raison d’etre, and its leader, Takanobu Ito, pretty much had nothing to offer other than this: “We are having a lot of discussions about Acura and which way it should be going. And what we confirmed is that the brand direction should be smart premium, not top tier… We agreed that smart premium is what we should be targeting with Acura, not the upper-segment vehicles such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz. We must apply advanced technologies which make our vehicle more fun to drive, achieve a more comfortable drive and high environmental performance. "
Last week, Acura executives took the media under the tent ahead of the upcoming Detroit Auto Show, confirming Ito’s leanings from a year ago. Mark Rechtin, reporting for Automotive News, says Acura will settle for offering mid-level premium vehicles that favor fuel economy over performance, even though the company plans on unveiling an environmentally friendly successor to the NSX sports car in Detroit.
To justify their position, Acura executives went on to mock modern day luxury cars as being examples of technical overkill. And much is revealed in the following quotes.
Mike Accavitti, the former head of Dodge who became American Honda's vice president of marketing in August, describes the current luxury market as "too much machine and not enough humanity. Our overweight bodies require overweight engines and more safety systems to protect them. Some of these cars the average driver just can't control. We have been increasing performance beyond the ability of the driver, or we have complicated the driving process."
Gary Evert, division director for advanced automotive planning at Acura R&D, said, "Technology is only as good as the driver. The vehicle almost always has more capability than the driver can handle. Anything outside the customer's understanding is waste."
Sales chief Jeff Conrad insisted that Acura was returning to its original product philosophy, as reported by Rechtin, which revolves around elegant engineering and class-leading fuel economy. And that they would no longer pursue the best-in-class entries from the top-tier automakers.
And Vicki Poponi, American Honda assistant vice president for product planning, added, "Our engineering ego was getting in the way."
Really? That’s hard to fathom because I don’t think anyone in this business would actually accuse Acura of having some sort of engineering ego. Acura has been so far off the radar screen of the “great cars” discussion for so long that the company occupies a strange existence in a netherworld between irrelevance and inconsequence. How can you possibly cultivate an ego around that?
I’m sure the new NSX concept set to be revealed in Detroit will be cool and buzz worthy, but Acura executives are already telegraphing the fact that they view enthusiasts as inconsequential and not really what they’re aiming for, so why bother? Since fewer than 20 percent of Acura’s target buyers in generation Y care about high performance, according to its internal research, why indeed?
Showing a zoomy concept when you plan on backing it up with “smart luxury” as Acura executives are referring to it is a fool’s errand, at best.
Everything these Acura executives are saying indicates to me that the sickness that seems to have swallowed Honda whole over the last half decade or so has completely obliterated any hope for Acura. Dismissing technical excellence as “waste” suggests to me that the executives within Honda assigned to Acura not only have the disease, they’ve had their brains reprogrammed as well.
I wonder if a PA announcement comes over the loudspeaker at Acura headquarters every morning with the following: “Ladies and gentlemen, we don’t care what the powers that be in the automotive world are achieving or aspiring to, because we only aspire to be good enough. After all, it’s much easier to succeed when the target is set low enough. So get to work.”
Calculated mediocrity will never win in this business. Ever. And for Honda and Acura executives to come out – with guns blazing, no less – suggesting that this is their path to righteousness and success is an insult to everyone out their busting their guts to do the best and be the best.
Here is a car company announcing to the world that good enough is indeed good enough, in an automotive world where “good enough” was forever made obsolete with the bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler.
This would all be laughable if it weren’t so patently absurd and pathetic.
As I said a year ago, I’m not looking for Honda to build over-the-top and overpriced offerings for Acura at every turn. I am, however, looking for each and every Acura model that hits the street to offer a level of distinctive driving differentiation and appeal that you just can’t get in the Honda showroom, or anywhere else, for that matter.
And the message I’m hearing from Acura executives is that’s notgonnahappen. It’s not even close to happening, in fact.
Showing up and being present and accounted for isn’t going to cut it for Acura, but that’s exactly what they’re hell-bent on doing. And I don’t get it. Mediocrity isn’t bliss. And there are legions of car executives and car companies that have learned that painful lesson the hardest way possible.
Acura - and Honda - need to make us believe that they actually have a pulse instead of confirming our suspicions that they’re receding into a black hole while becoming something unrecognizable and unfathomable, akin to a mewling morass of mediocrity masquerading as a real car company.
And that’s the High-Octane Truth for this week.
#191
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
again, there's 'critical review' of a vehicle, vs. how it does in the market. those two often don't align.
critically, the ilx is no revolutionary car, and while i would also doubt 40K/yr sales, i think it will do OK (maybe 2K/mo. or 24K?) which will help acura some. but as we all know, they've got a long way to go.
critically, the hs was actually a revolutionary car! possibly the first midsize luxury hybrid and with decent handling at that? but unfortunately it was not embraced much, perhaps because it was an overreach, perhaps because there just wasn't a market in the end, or perhaps because it's kinda awkward looking.
on the other hand, the new camry is kinda awkward and cheap looking to me (just read this harsh review of SE), but it sells like fresh donuts, go figure.
as we all can plainly see, critically reviewed winners are rarely market leaders, except in narrow niches (e.g., porsche 911).
critically, the ilx is no revolutionary car, and while i would also doubt 40K/yr sales, i think it will do OK (maybe 2K/mo. or 24K?) which will help acura some. but as we all know, they've got a long way to go.
critically, the hs was actually a revolutionary car! possibly the first midsize luxury hybrid and with decent handling at that? but unfortunately it was not embraced much, perhaps because it was an overreach, perhaps because there just wasn't a market in the end, or perhaps because it's kinda awkward looking.
on the other hand, the new camry is kinda awkward and cheap looking to me (just read this harsh review of SE), but it sells like fresh donuts, go figure.
as we all can plainly see, critically reviewed winners are rarely market leaders, except in narrow niches (e.g., porsche 911).
#193
The civic has 140hp. The ILX has 150 not that it makes much difference but it is funny seeing how some have such a big problem with the Acura ILX using the same powertrain as a Honda when Lexus has several models that use the same powertrain/hp as a Toyota model-Camry-ES, CTh-Prius, HS250-Camry hybrid, Highlander-RX, Landcruiser-Lexus LX(has 2 more hp), IS250 uses a smaller V6 with less power/acceleration then any American Toyota V6. The ILX is simply a small relatively low priced entry level car. It is not to satisfy enthusiasts as it is so I don't know why some seem to be expecting a S4 or BMW 3 series fighter or for it to have a LS460 interior. It is a decent car for what it is, a lower priced entry level car, it was not made to blow anyone away. The CTh takes about 10 or more seconds to do 0-60 yet many are complaining the ILX is too slow/underpowered. As far as options/model range complaints, there are some oddities but that can easily and quickly be addressed if many customers really want NAV with the 2.4 and other combinations.
Using carryover engines in the ILX for the first year or so could hurt it though. I don't know why they did not use the new ED engines which would have been much better for debuting the new car but it may have to do with a supply issue since the newer Accord is supposed to get the ED engines. The ED engines should improve the fuel economy and performance of the ILX. The main issue with the ILX is what will happen to the TSX. Hopefully the TSX stays, some now are saying it will stay where before they were saying it would be dropped. A type S version of the ILX with a more tuned suspension and 220-230hp would be very nice.
Using carryover engines in the ILX for the first year or so could hurt it though. I don't know why they did not use the new ED engines which would have been much better for debuting the new car but it may have to do with a supply issue since the newer Accord is supposed to get the ED engines. The ED engines should improve the fuel economy and performance of the ILX. The main issue with the ILX is what will happen to the TSX. Hopefully the TSX stays, some now are saying it will stay where before they were saying it would be dropped. A type S version of the ILX with a more tuned suspension and 220-230hp would be very nice.
The fact that it shares engine with Honda - who cares. Fact that it is so bad, is what is bad.
Again, TSX is European Accord, it has nothing to do with ILX which is Civic in Acura skin. It wont be going anywhere.
#194
Pole Position