RXSF

I wonder when we can negotiate on the Model S. Does that mean they will play that "Ill check with my manager" bit with Elon?

gengar

Car manufactures would happily accept "worry" and "headaches" to have their own service centers instead of having to deal with an independent dealer network. Don't believe for a second otherwise. It's all about the money. And at the local level, service is where the money is. Not only are net profit margins magnitudes higher than those on the car sales side, so are gross profit margins, so big companies can increase nets further by standardizing operations and streamlining processes to make service more efficient and reduce costs.

Then there are all the benefits of getting rid of local-level car sales. Reduce the huge inventory costs, distribution costs, and unnecessary labor costs. Already you're dropping the price of the car just by getting rid of all that. Some people here may love the thought that they can go around to multiple dealerships to try to haggle the lowest price imaginable, but what if everyone just gets that price or even a lower one via direct sales from the car manufacturer in the first place?

Another positive side effect of separating out the local car sales function is that then sales and service don't have to be linked from a business perspective. When there's such a difference in profit margins, the service side is basically subsidizing the sales side to make for an overall operation that is sufficiently profitable to warrant investment. Separating these means all that matters is whether the profitable service center is a good investment, which means more service centers in more locations which is better for the consumer - especially after adding in that these service centers don't need to be tied down to a dealership that requires tons of space and money for a showroom and car storage lots. (BTW, it amazes me that there are some decently large metro areas which don't have a Lexus dealer even within 100 miles.)

That's why I think it's funny that people are giving Tesla credit for this, especially given that Tesla is only trying to get exceptions for themselves. No car manufacturer would bother with dealers if they could do without them. Having massive independent dealer networks just increase the prices greatly for everyone, and the minor benefits to the consumer don't match that cost. This is not an new battle, the car manufacturers just know it's too hard to win.


When jobs are only supported by consumer wealth loss, it's not a net positive for society.

Also, the separation of car sales and service does not mean that car sales centers will cease to exist; they just won't exist like they do now. Tesla has showrooms, and I'm sure they can offer test drives (someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong). Car manufacturers that adopt direct sales can do the same thing. This isn't about removing ways for the customer to interact with car manufacturers at the local retail level, but about separating the car sales function from the car service function and getting rid of bloated middle management that only serves to cost consumers money.

As for the "singling out" part, I'm not the one who did that. I'm responding to the OP singling out Tesla for praise for getting rid of independent dealers.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

actually car companies CAN'T own dealerships (in the u.s.) - there's an iron clad bunch of laws about it, and a powerful lobbying force preventing change.

sanstoette

Looks like the dealerships in NC have a problem with cutting out the middleman.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te..._with_car.html

mmarshall

Why have price-negotiations at all? This is not the Middle East, with its public bazzars. Price-hagging (and the tricks that both sides try to play in the deal-negotiating) is probably the #1 complaint among both auto-shoppers and dealers. IMO, the answer is to simply do what Saturn and Scion did.....set their list-prices at a reasonable, competitive level and then sell at list, with tax/tags.

sanstoette

100% Agree

When heading to a dealer it'd be much easier to trust a salesman's opinion knowing they get a salary/flat rate, and probably cut overhead costs since it'd be a much faster process.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

why see a salesperson at all? order online, go pick up or have it delivered.

I8ABMR

This is why I go through the internet sales department. I dont want them to take any more than the minimum, and I sure as hell dont need to put money in the pockets of these lying sales people. LOL when we just bought our Sienna I gave one dealership the benefit of the doubt and they tried to screw me for 3k. I told the guy another dealership has already offered me the "e price" and he said " thats hard to believe". I texted a picture of the email on my phone from a competing dealer and his response was That he needed to talk to his sales manager. He called the next day to try to sell it to me and I told him to go to hell for trying to screw me. In the end if we can cut out the middle men then why the hell not ?

Whitigir

I see where you comming from. I almost got screwed of 5k on my wife RX350. Luckily, I did my homework, and this forum is amazing in that regard.

I totally agree with the idea of Eliminating Sale man, and the Dealership BS.

We need a Show-Room with Manufactured firm price, and the Services department. This is all that we need. There is no need to do any Haggling or Hassle about buying a car. When I think about Negotiating the car, it makes the sale man look like SCAMER, or Thief, who is trying to pull out your pocket few more grants.

I8ABMR

internet sales is kind of a halfway point...kind of. Rather than paying Toyota for the car, and putting money in the pockets of of the dealership AND the crooked *** salesman we just need to feed the dealership. At least internet sales people dont BS. They give you their lowest price and you decide. No BS, no test drive, no lying, no "let me go ask my manager", just smiles and new cars. When I bought my LS460 and GS350 the buying experience was such a pain it literally took all of the excitement and fun out of getting a new car.

For now on I will test drive with a salesman and then go to another dealership to deal with internet sales once I know what packages I want. No reason to put money in the pockets of people who would love nothing more than to screw you a little . The dealership wants to clear a certain amount on each unit. after that the saleman is trying to push up the price any way he can

mmarshall

Yes, some dealerships operate like that....and I do like that system. They offer a no-haggle Internet discounted-price that is available even at the dealership itself, not just on-line. Sometimes, a slightly higher Internet-plus price includes additional free-service at the dealership that you don't get with the standard price. But, in effect, it is pretty much the same thing that I mentioned above about Saturn and Scion...pricing the vehicles at a reasonable level and selling at a no-bargain list.

gengar

I don't buy the Internet sales goodness. When I was shopping for my '08 IS F, I contacted all the Internet sales guys at nearby dealerships - but they still wouldn't give me a quote unless I called in or allowed them to call me. Kinda defeats the purpose of "internet" sales.