newr, I respect you a great deal so let me explain my side of things, being a hybrid owner. Let me say I have never said hybrids are the best things in the world and we all should buy them. Likely my next car won't be a hybrid. I've had this discussion with bitkhuna before here so I am somewhat repeating myself.

The calculator seems to be some easy internet tool people use to try to show why a hybrid isn't worth it. Never is this same calculator used for non hybrids. For example why is the calculator not pulled out for an I-4 Accord/Camry vs a V-6 one? Also that argument is based solely on gas savings and not any other benefits a hybrid might offer.

Also when people use this calculator they are assuming the price of gas stays flat and we all know that is not the case, gas goes up which means if you use this math, you need to take into account the price of gas will rise thus a person would need less miles driven to break even (I am no math major so I have no formula)

I honestly think I put 100 miles on my GS 450h last month and drove pretty month and drove a non-hybrid most of the time. There are a few things I did miss;

1. How quiet the 450h is when running on the battery power only. Its like a tomb, it is very relaxing and adds to the luxurious experience. I noticed many of the German cars I drive have start/stop at the light which is nice but they turn on very abruptly when you hit the gas. The GSh is very smooth in its transition.

2. In relation to the above that means I believe a 50% reduction in vibrations etc when the engine is off. It really leads for a very calming drive/time in the car when the engine is not running. Ive driven the Tesla a bit and that is one luxurious feeing thing about it, no noise, no vibration. No tranny feel, no engine running.

3. I'm no tree hugger but many people like the fact the cars are teh cleanest on the planet in regards to emissions and this means a ton in Europe (less so here).

4. The technology of a hybrid. They are still among and arguably the most complex and technologically advanced cars around. The Accord getting 50 MPG is quite amazing. I like to talk about the GS 450h and the hybrid part. People are always intrigued by it and there are still a ton of misconceptions about hybrids. To this day I get asked "do you plug it in".

5. Hybrids are more rare. People like that.

6. Hybrids look different. People like that they stand out some from their ICE only counterparts


Many Accords sold are loaded models in the 30k range. Now for around the same price you can get 50 MPG? I find that super appealing and that makes ONE HELLUVA daily driver (outside of the trunk, weight and other negatives).

Honestly while the Vette is likely a shoe in for "car of the year" I think the Accord Hybrid if it drives and gets the EPA as advertised should be highly considered as well. Yes I feel that strongly about the Accord hybrid.

Funny, many people feel the same way about the Accord and Honda with the usual insults (Ricer, FWD, Ugly) etc etc.... Not sure why you would even bring that up.

 

I totally see your points and you don't really need to tell me your reasons why you chose A over B. As I said previously, we all have our own reasons to justify why we do the things that we do. Based on my experience from people I know, the primary reason they tell me for buying a hybrid is because of the gas saving. I just wanted people to be informed and make better decision. That is my only intension and nothing else. After knowing that fact and still go ahead and buying the Accord hybrid over the regular accord becuase of whatever reasons then that is fine. I've wasted so much money on cars (bought 9 cars in the last 11 yrs) so who am I to judge?

Btw, I will take the GS450h over the Prius anyday..

 

so you're saying the Prius is too good for you?

 

almost choked on this, laughing. no compromises? the interior of a cereal box is more interesting. it's very slow. it's noisy. it handles like sailboat. but yes, it gets good mpg.

thanks for the good laugh. i have considered a prius a couple of times. but the regular one doesn't do it for me, the V is bigger, but the ford c-max seems like a better deal, and the C is better looking (to me) but really small.

great post.

 

I think that's fantastic that the Accord Hybrid will be able to achieve the MPG numbers. Honda really nailed the Accord this generation. Probably my favorite in the class of mid size sedans. That and the new Mazda 6

 

Are you comparing to a Lexus?

The Prius has the most unique, interesting interior in the industry, Every other car looks cookie cutter in comparison.

Of course it's slow, that's how it gets 50 MPG combined. Being faster (acceleration), would negate its purpose. As it is, it's faster (speed), much faster, than the law allows it to drive. Around 115 MPH I believe.

Noisy? Perhaps not as insulated as a Lexus, but it's just fine for a what you get for $23K. I assume you mean cabin noise. As for other noise, the only cars on the market quieter, are pure electrics. You can barely hear it coming.

Handling? Again, it's not suppose to handle sporty. It's trademark Toyota easy driving. Lots of people like it that way. It handles just fine.

The Prius is everything a hybrid should be. Which is why it far outsells all other hybrids in the world combined. Toyota could take your advice, and by doing so, destroy Prius sales.

All these rave reviews over the Accord hybrid, yet it won't even come remotely close to Prius sales. They'll be just a blip on the sales charts.

 

no, to a cereal box.

of course, and there's no point in comparing an accord of any kind with a prius. the prius is definitely unique, i'll give ya that. and it's definitely a huge success.

 

quick question - did you ever drive G3 Prius?

 

There are a couple of first drive reviews out already. Accord hybrid seems to be a decent car from what I've read. I suck at posting so you guys will have to google.

 

looks like some reviews are hitting over the 50 mpg mark pretty frequently

http://www.leftlanenews.com/first-dr...rd-hybrid.html

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...id-with-video/

 

quick answer, yes.

 

WOW!! After reading about the new drivetrain in more details, I'm thoroughly impressed. Honda calls the new transmission an "E-CVT" but it can't be further apart from Toyota's hybrid transmission carrying the same name. It's just a clutch! The engine either powers the wheels or it doesn't. That's it! With the engine connected directly to the wheels with a fixed gear ratio at over 44mph while acting as just a generator at below 44mph, it's definitely the simplest and yet the most efficient hybrid setup yet--no power is wasted in mediating a power split or going through some multi-speed transmission unit. No wonder it can achieve Prius-like gas mileage in those two test drives above without much tree-hugging effort, while being a comfortable midsize (or large, according to some classifications) sedan able to do 0-60mph in the mid-7 seconds. Even the trunk size is quite decent. Just brilliant. The price premium is the only disadvantage probably because Honda doesn't want to subsidize the development costs when the initial production volume of the new system is still low. Still it's worth it for those who want the best of both fuel economy and comfort IMHO.

Honda is definitely thinking outside the box with this new design paradigm. Kudos!!

 

it is similar to what Volt uses - serial hybrid up to certain speed and then engine only. It will be interesting to see mpg compared to competition in head to head tests... Edmunds reported 41-42mpg in "normal" driving without speeding nut also without pulse and glide or turning off A/C, and Autoweek reported 32 MPG when they tried hard to get as worst mpg as possible.

 

I hope they move this hybrid drivetrain into the Insight to have a serious prius competitor!

 

All two-motor hybrid systems -- Toyota's, Ford's, Chevy Volt's and now Honda's new 2-motor system -- seem to operate in a similar fashion: they start off in Electric Vehicle mode with the primary drive motor driving the car, switching to serial hybrid mode (with the internal combustion engine turning to generate electricity) as the battery drains, and switching to parallel hybrid mode (with the internal combustion engine turning to add power to help drive the vehicle, or the second motor/generator in the case of the Volt).

The new Honda Accord Hybrid seems like it MAY have a fourth mode of operation -- direct drive by the engine, perhaps with the primary electric drive motor off and not driving the car. This is hard to determine because I have not seen any explanations by HOnda engineers. All the explanations given in review drives seem to differ (open to interpretation by reviewers who understand very little of the technical explanations given by Honda's marketing people).

These various modes are all allowed by a power-split device (PSD), a planetary gear system that allows for a number of different inputs -- internal combustion engine and motor generator (either connected directly to the crankshaft or another input on the PSD), and the primary drive motor. On the Toyota, Ford and Volt systems, the primary drive motor is on the drive axle, always spining and always driving the car.

I believe that Honda's new hybrid system also has a PSD -- the "fixed gear ratio" that the primary electric drive motor and internal combustion engine drive through, plus the fact that it can operate as either a serial or parallel hybrid point to that, in my opinion. But rather than placing the primary electric drive motor directly on the drive axle, it may be on one of the other inputs to the PSD, allowing it to be turned off and letting the internal combustion engine drive the wheels directly. I do not believe that it is as simple as a clutch between the engine and the drive motor; planetary gear systems also contain clutches to allow or stop various inputs from driving the output. The simple clutch pack explanation, I believe, is a marketing description to try to simply explain the complex operation of the PSD to car reviewers who very seldom understand how engines and transmissions (especially hybrid transmissions) work.