2014 Accord Hybrid to get 49mpg city
10-12-13, 06:26 AM
#181
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My concern and maybe some hybrid owners can chime in here.
Are these cars too complex? Meaning is there a whole other layer of things that can go wrong and thus be more trouble prone?
With a normal car such as a regular accord you have engine tranny and regular brakes. Things that can be looked at by a local service place like a tire/battery shop where I got things like my spark plugs in my Subi.
I wonder if something like a Hybrid would be mandatory dealership visits for most everything except oil changes.
However, the Honda Accord Hybrid does look very good to me, I was never considering a Prius since it looks odd and very slow from what I read. One of the slowest cars this side of the 1980's.
The Accord hybrid seems like it will be almost as quick as a regular but with 40% better economy.
Are these cars too complex? Meaning is there a whole other layer of things that can go wrong and thus be more trouble prone?
With a normal car such as a regular accord you have engine tranny and regular brakes. Things that can be looked at by a local service place like a tire/battery shop where I got things like my spark plugs in my Subi.
I wonder if something like a Hybrid would be mandatory dealership visits for most everything except oil changes.
However, the Honda Accord Hybrid does look very good to me, I was never considering a Prius since it looks odd and very slow from what I read. One of the slowest cars this side of the 1980's.
The Accord hybrid seems like it will be almost as quick as a regular but with 40% better economy.
10-12-13, 07:56 AM
#182
Lexus Champion
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/hybrids-prove-v...iable-1.599754
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...d-up/index.htm
hummm.....note at 1:25 he talks about the only think he had to change was a fan belt???? there is no fan belt on a Prius LOL
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...iles/index.htm
Last edited by bagwell; 10-12-13 at 08:01 AM.
10-12-13, 08:51 AM
#183
My concern and maybe some hybrid owners can chime in here.
Are these cars too complex? Meaning is there a whole other layer of things that can go wrong and thus be more trouble prone?
With a normal car such as a regular accord you have engine tranny and regular brakes. Things that can be looked at by a local service place like a tire/battery shop where I got things like my spark plugs in my Subi.
I wonder if something like a Hybrid would be mandatory dealership visits for most everything except oil changes.
However, the Honda Accord Hybrid does look very good to me, I was never considering a Prius since it looks odd and very slow from what I read. One of the slowest cars this side of the 1980's.
The Accord hybrid seems like it will be almost as quick as a regular but with 40% better economy.
Are these cars too complex? Meaning is there a whole other layer of things that can go wrong and thus be more trouble prone?
With a normal car such as a regular accord you have engine tranny and regular brakes. Things that can be looked at by a local service place like a tire/battery shop where I got things like my spark plugs in my Subi.
I wonder if something like a Hybrid would be mandatory dealership visits for most everything except oil changes.
However, the Honda Accord Hybrid does look very good to me, I was never considering a Prius since it looks odd and very slow from what I read. One of the slowest cars this side of the 1980's.
The Accord hybrid seems like it will be almost as quick as a regular but with 40% better economy.
At least with Toyota, hybrids are the most reliable cars they have. Honda has had some battery problems in the past.
10-13-13, 07:52 PM
#184
Lexus Champion
My concern and maybe some hybrid owners can chime in here.
Are these cars too complex? Meaning is there a whole other layer of things that can go wrong and thus be more trouble prone?
With a normal car such as a regular accord you have engine tranny and regular brakes. Things that can be looked at by a local service place like a tire/battery shop where I got things like my spark plugs in my Subi.
I wonder if something like a Hybrid would be mandatory dealership visits for most everything except oil changes.
However, the Honda Accord Hybrid does look very good to me, I was never considering a Prius since it looks odd and very slow from what I read. One of the slowest cars this side of the 1980's.
The Accord hybrid seems like it will be almost as quick as a regular but with 40% better economy.
Are these cars too complex? Meaning is there a whole other layer of things that can go wrong and thus be more trouble prone?
With a normal car such as a regular accord you have engine tranny and regular brakes. Things that can be looked at by a local service place like a tire/battery shop where I got things like my spark plugs in my Subi.
I wonder if something like a Hybrid would be mandatory dealership visits for most everything except oil changes.
However, the Honda Accord Hybrid does look very good to me, I was never considering a Prius since it looks odd and very slow from what I read. One of the slowest cars this side of the 1980's.
The Accord hybrid seems like it will be almost as quick as a regular but with 40% better economy.
Yes, hybrid cars are more complex than normal gasoline engine-powered cars; it has a second (electric) drivetrain, after all.
Let's concentrate on Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive, since it is the most popular system on the road.
Transmission: The Prius, Camry Hybrid, etc. do not have regular manual or automatic transmission. What it does have is a Power Split Device in place of a regular gearbox; the PSD is just a planetary gearset, which is also the basis for traditional automatic transmissions. The technology is not new and the PSD is simpler than the modern 6, 7, 8, 9-speed planetary gearset automatic transmissions. Service costs for the PSD should not be greater than an automatic transmission.
Brakes: Hybrid vehicles all have regenerative braking. Using the electric motor as a generator, it helps to slow the car (as in engine braking) and only when greater braking power is needed is the mechanical braking system engaged. This saves wear and tear on the brake pads and disks. The mechanical brake components last longer before needing service or replacement.
Hybrid battery: This is the real unknown. But as evidence with long-running Toyota Prius taxis have proven, the batteries have proven to be very reliable. One reason given for Toyota staying with nickel–metal hydride instead of switching over to lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries is because the NiMH batteries are more reliable than Li-ion batteries. Toyota's hybrid batteries are not a high-maintenance item.
Engine: In the Prius, Camry Hybrid, etc. the engine does not run all the time and with the eCVT PSD transmission, when it does, it is running at a constant speed rather than going through deceleration and acceleration cycles. Just as a car that does most of its running on the highway, the wear and tear on a hybrid vehicle engine is less because it is running less stressfully. Service periods are longer and service costs will be lower.
Electric motors: We already have many electric motors in the modern car -- power windows, power seats, power mirrors, etc. They seldom go wrong.
Electronics/computers: This is another unknown. The hybrid system control software is extremely complex but with the Prius in 3 generations coming close to 15 years total on the roads, there have not been any major software problems that have been brought to attention.
To sum up, service costs on Toyota's hybrid cars are lower.
- The PSD transmission is simpler than a normal, modern automatic transmission.
- Wear and tear on the mechanical braking system is less, so service periods are longer and service costs lower.
- The NiMH hybrid battery on Toyota hybrids have been surprisingly reliable and long-wearing.
- Wear and tear on the internal combustion engine is less, so service periods are longer and service costs lower.
- Electric motors are not new technology and have not proven to be troublesome.
- Electronics have not proven to be a problem area either.
05-29-14, 04:14 PM
#185
Consumer Reports Link
Honda Accord Hybrid overpromises, underdelivers
Besides its fuel economy, let us count the ways
Published: May 29, 2014 12:30 PM
Honda Accord Hybrid overpromises, underdelivers
Besides its fuel economy, let us count the ways
Published: May 29, 2014 12:30 PM
Many of today’s hybrids get really impressive gas mileage. Unfortunately, they also frequently overpromise based on official EPA fuel economy ratings. That’s the case with the Honda Accord Hybrid. We also found that the Accord Hybrid makes a few other sacrifices compared to the basic four-cylinder Accord.
First, the good news: The Honda Accord Hybrid is the first midsized sedan we’ve tested that gets 40 mpg overall in combined city and highway driving. That’s impressive. But it is much less than the Accord Hybrid’s official combined fuel economy rating of 47 mpg, as advertised on the car’s window sticker and touted in print and television ads.
The Accord Hybrid isn’t the first hybrid we’ve found that doesn’t live up to its EPA rating, nor does it fall as far short as some others. When we tested one of its major competitors, the Ford Fusion Hybrid, also with the 47 mpg EPA rating, we found it returned just 39 mpg. The Ford C-Max Hybrid, with the same advertised rating, achieved just 37 mpg. All the hybrids we’ve tested have fallen short of their official estimates to one degree or another. This is more of an artifact of the EPA testing than the manufacturers’ fault.
Since hybrid systems usually have a bigger effect on city fuel economy, the Accord Hybrid may sound especially enticing to city drivers. But in our city test, we found the car gets only 33 mpg, compared with 50 mpg on the window sticker.
Unfortunately, even missing its fuel economy estimates isn’t our biggest problem with the Accord Hybrid. In driving the car for thousands of miles and running it through our more than 50 standard tests, we also found that it rides significantly less comfortably than any other Accord we’ve tested. It is a constantly choppy ride that becomes fatiguing.
The Accord Hybrid also uses a unique hybrid transmission system. Or, to put a finer point on it: It doesn’t have a transmission. Rather, the Hybrid’s electric motor provides all the direct power to the wheels at lower speeds, up to about 45 mph—a range where other cars need their lower gears. Above that, a clutch engages the engine directly in top gear. At lower speeds, the engine acts as a generator to provide electricity to the motor.
On paper, this solution is brilliant in its simplicity. In practice, though, we found the engine often has to rev noisily to produce enough electricity at lower speeds. This is particularly disappointing since the basic four-cylinder Accord has one of the least-intrusive continuously variable transmissions on the market. We often complain of CVTs holding revs high and creating engine racket when accelerating. But in the Accord’s case, the hybrid generates a lot more fuss than the four-cylinder with its conventional CVT. And that car still gets 40 mpg on the highway, while costing thousands less. It’s our Top Pick among family sedans.
We love getting great gas mileage, and the Accord Hybrid delivers that. But we’re not so pleased when getting frugal mpg forces us to give up so many other good qualities. Like many buyers, we were expecting more from the Accord Hybrid. For shoppers looking to save money, the clear choice from the Accord line is the basic four-cylinder model.
—Eric Evarts
First, the good news: The Honda Accord Hybrid is the first midsized sedan we’ve tested that gets 40 mpg overall in combined city and highway driving. That’s impressive. But it is much less than the Accord Hybrid’s official combined fuel economy rating of 47 mpg, as advertised on the car’s window sticker and touted in print and television ads.
The Accord Hybrid isn’t the first hybrid we’ve found that doesn’t live up to its EPA rating, nor does it fall as far short as some others. When we tested one of its major competitors, the Ford Fusion Hybrid, also with the 47 mpg EPA rating, we found it returned just 39 mpg. The Ford C-Max Hybrid, with the same advertised rating, achieved just 37 mpg. All the hybrids we’ve tested have fallen short of their official estimates to one degree or another. This is more of an artifact of the EPA testing than the manufacturers’ fault.
Since hybrid systems usually have a bigger effect on city fuel economy, the Accord Hybrid may sound especially enticing to city drivers. But in our city test, we found the car gets only 33 mpg, compared with 50 mpg on the window sticker.
Unfortunately, even missing its fuel economy estimates isn’t our biggest problem with the Accord Hybrid. In driving the car for thousands of miles and running it through our more than 50 standard tests, we also found that it rides significantly less comfortably than any other Accord we’ve tested. It is a constantly choppy ride that becomes fatiguing.
The Accord Hybrid also uses a unique hybrid transmission system. Or, to put a finer point on it: It doesn’t have a transmission. Rather, the Hybrid’s electric motor provides all the direct power to the wheels at lower speeds, up to about 45 mph—a range where other cars need their lower gears. Above that, a clutch engages the engine directly in top gear. At lower speeds, the engine acts as a generator to provide electricity to the motor.
On paper, this solution is brilliant in its simplicity. In practice, though, we found the engine often has to rev noisily to produce enough electricity at lower speeds. This is particularly disappointing since the basic four-cylinder Accord has one of the least-intrusive continuously variable transmissions on the market. We often complain of CVTs holding revs high and creating engine racket when accelerating. But in the Accord’s case, the hybrid generates a lot more fuss than the four-cylinder with its conventional CVT. And that car still gets 40 mpg on the highway, while costing thousands less. It’s our Top Pick among family sedans.
We love getting great gas mileage, and the Accord Hybrid delivers that. But we’re not so pleased when getting frugal mpg forces us to give up so many other good qualities. Like many buyers, we were expecting more from the Accord Hybrid. For shoppers looking to save money, the clear choice from the Accord line is the basic four-cylinder model.
—Eric Evarts
05-29-14, 04:32 PM
#186
If you want a sure way to get your hybrid's MPG lower than the EPA rating, all you have to do is give your car to Consumer Report 
Seems like pretty much any hybrids they touch get lower than the rated MPG while everyone else seems to do better. Perhaps CR's test track consists of 10% grade hills Anyone know how CR test their cars?
Seems like pretty much any hybrids they touch get lower than the rated MPG while everyone else seems to do better. Perhaps CR's test track consists of 10% grade hills Anyone know how CR test their cars?
05-29-14, 05:30 PM
#187
Lexus Champion
1442 sold in April, for the year 4223
here's what buyers are reporting on fueleconomy.gov and from fuelly.com
here's what buyers are reporting on fueleconomy.gov and from fuelly.com
Last edited by bagwell; 05-29-14 at 06:51 PM.
05-29-14, 05:54 PM
#188
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If you want a sure way to get your hybrid's MPG lower than the EPA rating, all you have to do is give your car to Consumer Report Seems like pretty much any hybrids they touch get lower than the rated MPG while everyone else seems to do better. Perhaps CR's test track consists of 10% grade hills Anyone know how CR test their cars?
Seems like pretty much any hybrids they touch get lower than the rated MPG while everyone else seems to do better. Perhaps CR's test track consists of 10% grade hills Anyone know how CR test their cars?The only one I've ever seen was in Japan, none here. I think most of us thought this was going to sell like crazy.
05-29-14, 06:12 PM
#191
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So after all the positive hype, another failure from Honda. I thought Honda had finally nailed a good hybrid system. Apparently not. There's only one company that delivers a proper hybrid. Toyota. Toyota consistently meets their EPA numbers, and they seem to be the only ones. Even the Avalon Hybrid gets the 40 MPG rating real world, essentially matching or beating the smaller Accord.
05-29-14, 06:44 PM
#192
Lexus Champion
50 city/45 highway/47 combined mpg EPA rating
33 city/?? highway/40 combined mpg CR rating
Does anyone know what CR highway mpg rating is? But even without the highway number, it does not look good (unless there were some typos): 33 mpg CR city rating compared to the 50 mpg EPA city rating?
Full hybrids typically get better city mileage than highway mileage but the Accord Hybrid gets worse city mileage -- and much worse than the EPA rating. Is the engine much less efficient acting as a generator (at lower, city speeds) than driving the car (at higher, highway speeds)?
33 city/?? highway/40 combined mpg CR rating
Does anyone know what CR highway mpg rating is? But even without the highway number, it does not look good (unless there were some typos): 33 mpg CR city rating compared to the 50 mpg EPA city rating?
Full hybrids typically get better city mileage than highway mileage but the Accord Hybrid gets worse city mileage -- and much worse than the EPA rating. Is the engine much less efficient acting as a generator (at lower, city speeds) than driving the car (at higher, highway speeds)?
05-29-14, 08:54 PM
#193
So after all the positive hype, another failure from Honda. I thought Honda had finally nailed a good hybrid system. Apparently not. There's only one company that delivers a proper hybrid. Toyota. Toyota consistently meets their EPA numbers, and they seem to be the only ones. Even the Avalon Hybrid gets the 40 MPG rating real world, essentially matching or beating the smaller Accord.
There is not a large enough samples to determine whether the Accord hybrid is a bust, but just a quick search reveals many of the owners are averaging at least 45 or more in the real world which is not too shabby for how much power it has.
05-30-14, 04:38 AM
#194
50 city/45 highway/47 combined mpg EPA rating
33 city/?? highway/40 combined mpg CR rating
Does anyone know what CR highway mpg rating is? But even without the highway number, it does not look good (unless there were some typos): 33 mpg CR city rating compared to the 50 mpg EPA city rating?
Full hybrids typically get better city mileage than highway mileage but the Accord Hybrid gets worse city mileage -- and much worse than the EPA rating. Is the engine much less efficient acting as a generator (at lower, city speeds) than driving the car (at higher, highway speeds)?
33 city/?? highway/40 combined mpg CR rating
Does anyone know what CR highway mpg rating is? But even without the highway number, it does not look good (unless there were some typos): 33 mpg CR city rating compared to the 50 mpg EPA city rating?
Full hybrids typically get better city mileage than highway mileage but the Accord Hybrid gets worse city mileage -- and much worse than the EPA rating. Is the engine much less efficient acting as a generator (at lower, city speeds) than driving the car (at higher, highway speeds)?
I believe normal Accord gets 30 MPG combined in CR; but someone can check that one better... thats 10 MPG difference + more speed in Accord, thats quite a lot of difference.
I think the problem is not the MPG - 40 is good in CR testing (38 MPG Camry) but that the powertrain is not as refined overall as in Camry, while being more expensive. It is true for pretty much every hybrid powertrain out there - paper specs really do tell only part of the story.
Unfortunately, even missing its fuel economy estimates isn’t our biggest problem with the Accord Hybrid. In driving the car for thousands of miles and running it through our more than 50 standard tests, we also found that it rides significantly less comfortably than any other Accord we’ve tested. It is a constantly choppy ride that becomes fatiguing.
The Accord Hybrid also uses a unique hybrid transmission system. Or, to put a finer point on it: It doesn’t have a transmission. Rather, the Hybrid’s electric motor provides all the direct power to the wheels at lower speeds, up to about 45 mph—a range where other cars need their lower gears. Above that, a clutch engages the engine directly in top gear. At lower speeds, the engine acts as a generator to provide electricity to the motor.
On paper, this solution is brilliant in its simplicity. In practice, though, we found the engine often has to rev noisily to produce enough electricity at lower speeds. This is particularly disappointing since the basic four-cylinder Accord has one of the least-intrusive continuously variable transmissions on the market. We often complain of CVTs holding revs high and creating engine racket when accelerating. But in the Accord’s case, the hybrid generates a lot more fuss than the four-cylinder with its conventional CVT. And that car still gets 40 mpg on the highway, while costing thousands less. It’s our Top Pick among family sedans.
The Accord Hybrid also uses a unique hybrid transmission system. Or, to put a finer point on it: It doesn’t have a transmission. Rather, the Hybrid’s electric motor provides all the direct power to the wheels at lower speeds, up to about 45 mph—a range where other cars need their lower gears. Above that, a clutch engages the engine directly in top gear. At lower speeds, the engine acts as a generator to provide electricity to the motor.
On paper, this solution is brilliant in its simplicity. In practice, though, we found the engine often has to rev noisily to produce enough electricity at lower speeds. This is particularly disappointing since the basic four-cylinder Accord has one of the least-intrusive continuously variable transmissions on the market. We often complain of CVTs holding revs high and creating engine racket when accelerating. But in the Accord’s case, the hybrid generates a lot more fuss than the four-cylinder with its conventional CVT. And that car still gets 40 mpg on the highway, while costing thousands less. It’s our Top Pick among family sedans.
