Och

iTrader: (3)

I've been saying this for a while. Lexus needs to stop wasting R&D on hybrids and the 3 people that buy them and invest these resources a lot wiser, on more exciting cars, engines and customizations. And make it feasible to order cars customized for you, not basically force you to get a vanilla model with AWD that dealerships shove down your throat. Otherwise they are going to set themselves up to become the next Infiniti.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

lol @ the hybrid comments. RXh is 40+% of RX sales. IS 300h is the best selling IS model worldwide. Some markets only have GS 450h - no 250 or 350. Same for LS 600h/L. CT is the best selling Lexus model in Europe.

Performance models are still a niche market.

Does Lexus need new engines? Yeah. Should the abandon hybrids to develop them? That would be the single stupidest business mistake they ever made.

Blackraven

Hehe I guess that your opinion (and I'll respect that)

For me though:
Conventional V8 > V6 Hybrid

In short, I would choose a GS350 F-sport (4GS) as well as the GS460 (3GS).........but atm, I don't feel like selecting a GS450 hybrid.

Just my opinion =)



Still, some of us here are questioning as to how long will Lexus play the waiting game (especially with regards to adding a V8 engine into the 4GS). With that said, some people will wait and believe that something is there.............but others say that they've waited long enough for something exciting to come. As such, those people had to look elsewhere.

So we ask again:
What is 'if'? How long is 'when'?

RNM GS3

Simple answer - bec Lexus has no diesels and gas prices are crazy outside of the US, they only sell the hybrid versions, so those figures are skewed a bit.

US is still by far the biggest market for Lexus and besides the Prius, hybrids have sold poorly. THAT IS A FACT.

Also hybrid tech is no longer unique, everyone offers a hybrid model, so this no longer is a major marketing/selling point for Lexus.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

that's for 3 reasons:
1) on an suv you can hide the batteries (no trade-off)
2) people can't do math (extra $ will never pay for itself)
3) the additional trim on the rxh is nice

that's because of TAX/emissions policies in those markets, and that lexus has no diesels (is220d doesn't count ) so hybrids have some appeal.

as i said, lexus hybrid sedans sell where there's a huge tax incentive to buy (or lease) one. lexus u.s. doesn't have that angle and thus isn't even bothering with the is300h. the gs450h and ls600hl barely sell at all here either due to cost, lack of clear benefit, or consume dislike due to minimal trunk space. i never understood why lexus didn't make an lx600h though, but maybe cost, engineering cost, and likely very small volume were the reasons. i haven't looked but i wonder how the es300h is doing - probably not bad because it's marketing message is clearer, about fuel economy, not performance like the gsh.

initially i agreed with och that lexus had wasted its time and money on hybrids, but for the non-u.s. market, that's not the case, it gave them a real and unique marketing angle to attack those markets. maybe lexus doesn't care much that u.s. hybrid sales are tiny.

i do think lexus has a better shot once they get to lighter li-ion packs in their hybrids, so they can be lighter with more power and space.

Och

iTrader: (3)

On another hand, down the road Lexus might be doing everyone a favor for not jumping into this whole diesel/forced induction trend. Some of the reliability issues with those are simply horror stories, and once these engines get to be 10 year old, they are going to be nothing but money pits.

As much as I would love to see a twin turbo V8 from Lexus, I hope its going to be a lot more reliable than MB/BMW units.

LexFather

Thank you for posting some reality. Hybrids might not be people's here cup of tea but its been an important part of pushing Lexus to the forefront of true technology which everyone blasted years ago but not everyone is playing catchup and following (crickets). Its pretty big here and its a VERY important part of the Euro strategy and does well in Japan. I think Lexus posted they have sold 4 million or so hybrid, can't be as much of a waste of non-adopters say it is.

Toyota also spends the most on R&D than any company I believe so they have the resources to do both hybrids and cars like the LFA. With Mr. Toyoda at the helm we have seen sportier vehicles coming slowing but surely. Hopefully more to come.

Again though I think we all agree compared to the Euro competition, there isn't much of one. When you attend high end car events, its dominated by Euro's, you are lucky to see a high powered Lexus let alone anything else Asian. There is a lot of opportunity there, the IS F proved people want a car from Lexus in that manner so not sure why they are not going full steam ahead with the F program.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

^Exactly.

Look at what companies like Porsche and Ferrari are doing with hybrid technology. Hybrids are the future, and Lexus has pioneered the technology among premium brands. LSh is a lame duck, I agree. GS 450h has been lauded as possibly the best GS ever. Does it sell well? I have no idea because they don't break out the sales figures and Lexus has never done so much as a print campaign to promote it. They have marketed it poorly, but it's still a tremendous car.

There will likely (IMO) come a point where hybrid components and batteries are just a part of every car, much like a transmission or alternator. It can be cost prohibitive now, but that gap continues to narrow and will into the foreseeable future.

LF-LC with a 500hp hybrid V8, and you guys want Lexus to drop hybrid development?

gengar

Not sure how you can make such a statement? The CT, which wasn't even supposed to sell well in the US, comprised ~13% of Lexus US car sales in 2012. The RX hybrid has historically represented 20% of all RX sales in the US (for the years I have figures through the late 00's), which is very good considering the price premium over the entry-level product. Not sure if Lexus provided specific model or hybrid breakdowns for their 2012 sales figures.

spwolf

how about the fact is that Toyota/Lexus hybrids sold 1.4 million last year?
And what about the fact that worldwide, 50% of Lexus sales last year were hybrids? And thats before IS300h and with only few months of ES300h.

If anything, you will see more Lexus hybrids, since NX300h is coming as well... GS300h is coming to rest of the world too.

RNM GS3

Again I stated this previously - the reasons Lexus hybrid sales are high if u look at Global figures bec they offer no DIESEL engine options and ONLY offer a HYBRID powertrain as the only option. Therefore those #s dont tell the whole story!

Also - Lexus Global sales are extremely low compared to MB, Audi, and BMW - this is especially true for China.

The US is Lexus' BEST market by far and the HYBRID powertrain has not found success in America. Its not only Lexus - all the other make have poor HYBRID SALES also!

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

With respect to the word "exciting" in the OP thread title,

To those that said no to the LFA, subjective styling aside, I could put you in the LFA with Scott Pruett or Randy Pobst, hook you up to a heart monitor and your heart would be racing more than in your favorite stock Lexus

I8ABMR

I8ABMR

If the LS F sport is the best looking and most exciting Lexus ever made then I would say go see you Optometrist . LOL J/K I love the looks of the new LS460 F sport but it looks pretty much the same as my 07 minus a crease in the hood and those hideous wheels. In the end beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For me I would say hands down the Lexus LFA is the best looking and most exciting car ever made by Lexus

RNM GS3

The CT was definitely a success but I doubt people buy it bec its a hybrid (Gas mileage is not even that great). If it offered another powertrain, I would imagine it would sell even better.
Reasons I think it sells are: 1) it is the lowered priced Lexus 2) It looks GREAT

HS = Discontinued/bombed.
GS-hybrid = Poor Sales
RX-hybrid = Not sure exact #s but I see RX350s 99% of the time.
LS600h = I saw 2 maybe since it came out.

I don't think Lexus should stop selling HYBRIDS.........All I said was they BET too much $$$ in mid-2000s that it was the next big thing at it turned out that it wasn't.

Nobody can deny the success of Prius - it just hasn't been the same for Lexus.