Is it just me or is there NOTHING exciting happening at Lexus?
#76
lol @ the hybrid comments. RXh is 40+% of RX sales. IS 300h is the best selling IS model worldwide. Some markets only have GS 450h - no 250 or 350. Same for LS 600h/L. CT is the best selling Lexus model in Europe.
Performance models are still a niche market.
Does Lexus need new engines? Yeah. Should the abandon hybrids to develop them? That would be the single stupidest business mistake they ever made.
Performance models are still a niche market.
Does Lexus need new engines? Yeah. Should the abandon hybrids to develop them? That would be the single stupidest business mistake they ever made.
you're eyeing will be a turbo-diesel (If you like German) or a hybrid Lexus.
The mainstream V8 will die off long before the hybrid. Hybrid is just getting started. And those who say a GS450h F-Sport isn't exciting hasn't driven one around a corner at speed yet.
Also those that gripe that luxury hybrids don't pay for themselves in fuel savings are MISSING THE POINT : there is a smoothness and torque with a luxury hybrid drivetrain ( such as that found in the GS450h)that simply can't be replicated by a conventional Internal combustion engine. For now, luxury hybrids allow for the low end effortless torque that luxury buyers previously only found in high end V8 flagships without the attendant gas guzzler fuel consumption. In short, a luxury hybrid is for the LUXURY of effortless low end shove first and fuel savings second.
Last edited by natnut; 07-13-13 at 04:14 AM.
#77
What does the GS compete against? The Acura TL?
Well. I think the new GS competes with the Acura TL better than anything with it's weak V6. Cadillac used to be here with the CTS but at least they came to their senses and can now actually compete with everyone else.
Lexus DOES need a midsize car that performs the way many luxury car buyers (like myself) expect it to.
Well. I think the new GS competes with the Acura TL better than anything with it's weak V6. Cadillac used to be here with the CTS but at least they came to their senses and can now actually compete with everyone else.
Lexus DOES need a midsize car that performs the way many luxury car buyers (like myself) expect it to.
If your point is that there is no GS submodel that competes with the German V8s or M/AMG/S/RS lineup, then you have a point.
But making that blanket statement about the GS not competing against the German mid-sizers conveniently ignores the fact that the vast majority of German mid-size luxury sales are of four/six cylinder cars, many of which have worse performance than the 3.5L V6 in the GS.
#78
This just goes to support my argument of the sales failure of Lexus Hybrids.
Article as of July 10,2013
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2
Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade
6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012
3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*
Article as of July 10,2013
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2
Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade
6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012
3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*
#80
This just goes to support my argument of the sales failure of Lexus Hybrids.
Article as of July 10,2013
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2
Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade
6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012
3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*
Article as of July 10,2013
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2
Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade
6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012
3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*
#81
I think the new GS is a good drivers car - but no V8 and/or turbo/supercharged V6 and it's not even a consideration for me. A car that performs worse than it's previous generation is really shocking - especially when the rest of the industry is improving in this aspect. If I want a car that performs adequately, I'd buy an Avalon or something similar.
Well. I think the new GS competes with the Acura TL better than anything with it's weak V6. Cadillac used to be here with the CTS but at least they came to their senses and can now actually compete with everyone else.
Lexus DOES need a midsize car that performs the way many luxury car buyers (like myself) expect it to.
I'm just VERY frustrated. Not trying to stir things up... You should see some of the things I used to say about Cadillac on GM Inside News. I am VERY critical of my favorite brands...
Well. I think the new GS competes with the Acura TL better than anything with it's weak V6. Cadillac used to be here with the CTS but at least they came to their senses and can now actually compete with everyone else.
Lexus DOES need a midsize car that performs the way many luxury car buyers (like myself) expect it to.
I'm just VERY frustrated. Not trying to stir things up... You should see some of the things I used to say about Cadillac on GM Inside News. I am VERY critical of my favorite brands...
The GS may be smaller than a E or 5, but it is certainly in that class. Acura TL can't even be muttered in the same sentence as GS, E, 5, A6, XF. The TL and Acura are an premium brand not a luxury brand.
Lexus should take a page from BMW or Caddy with it's new arrary of engines, even the awesome 3.6L TT V6 VSport model, but just because it lacks a large engine choice doesn't mean it's a bad vehicle.
Lexus has a midsize vehicle in the GS. Again it is a few inches smaller than a 5 or E, but it's not a straddler. Blame the existence of the ES. If Lexus canned the ES, the GS could grow a few more inches, even more plushness, roominess, and offer sport AND comfort settings so buyers don't have to choose between a GS and ES which are catered to two different demographics. Just look at the E class. Luxurious and comfortable all the time, sport on demand when you need it.
I understand your frustration, as I am in a tizzy with Lexus too over packaging options and cost cutting, mostly on anything below the $50K mark. And yes, the lack of a V8 has me barking up 550i territory - though I may swing the other way and choose a 14' Mazda3 for a nice daily/excellent mileage car too.
#82
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This just goes to support my argument of the sales failure of Lexus Hybrids.
Article as of July 10,2013
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2
Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade
6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012
3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*
Article as of July 10,2013
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2
Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade
6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012
3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*
The funny thing is the HS didn't meet Lexus sales expectations yet still outsold every hybrid not named Prius or RX at the time.
The LS 600h L is a special order vehicle. Should they put the S600 and 760 as failures too? Makes no sense.
#83
Your absurd ranting about Lexus' "failure" in the hybrid market is totally devoid of any fact or logic.
#84
LS600h is far from failure, its one of the best cars out there period, but not many people can afford it.
The HS250 was a failure, but not because it was a hybrid. Rather because its build quality vs its price was an insult - for nearly 40 grand you got interior that felt like recycled tide cans. And the exterior design wasn't too pretty either.
The HS250 was a failure, but not because it was a hybrid. Rather because its build quality vs its price was an insult - for nearly 40 grand you got interior that felt like recycled tide cans. And the exterior design wasn't too pretty either.
#85
I just can't wait any longer for the long due ISF or GSF. The current ISF is too ricer can't compete with other rivalry and competition. Steering and handling is subpar to call a sport car really. Lexus need to step up to match C63AMG black and M3 on the real track.
#86
Read today that the 5.0 will be dropped for the 2015 not sure if that applies to the us market but we will see I guess.
#89
You still need to gives props where props are due. No other Japanese make had anything remotely close to the fire breating M3, RS4 and C63 AMG with their V8's shoehorned into their smallest sedans until the IS-F which was their first attempt and a great one at that. The 2nd gen (with the LFA, GS F-Sport and IS F-Sport handling DNA) can only get better.
#90
This just goes to support my argument of the sales failure of Lexus Hybrids.
Article as of July 10,2013
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2
Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade
6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012
3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*
Article as of July 10,2013
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2
Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade
6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012
3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*
The 600hL represents the topmost LS you can get. Not many people will want to spend an EXTRA 40% of a base LS to buy the top model. On top of that, though the 600 was a technological tour de force, it didn't offer enough differences from the base LS. Near identical MPG and very little stylistic differences (headlights) isn't going to convince many people. Same thing with the S65 vs the "plebeian" S class. the 65 doesn't sell greatly, but it is more successful than the LSh because it distinguishes itself more from the base S. However, if you give it a 0-60 of just 0.1 seconds faster than the 550, do you think a lot of folks would buy it?
Yes, some people will buy the top model, but those that DO do that do so because of very attractive things that the top model offers that the lesser ones do not. The 600, unfortunately DOES not offer a great difference from the 460.
The HS was priced too high for it's benefits. That just goes to show my first point.
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By extension, I think that Lexus is on point for its hybrid strategy except for 1 thing. The pricing vs. benefits is not very great.
A lot of Lexus hybrids are priced much higher than their petrol counterparts. If they offered A LOT for the money, they'd sell better. Unfortunately they do not.
A simple solution for Lexus would be to offer more lower end and middle trim hybrids. They were on track by offering the GS300h in China but it didn't come stateside. The hybrids are priced too high.
They have started working on it with the ESh. It is only a LITTLE bit more expensive, but it does offer a good bit in return. Success is there, they just should rethink the hybrid positioning.
Imagine the success if there were GS250h/300h, LS350h, and RX300h offered.