now are you talking about build quality aka assembly or are you talking about materials. Because those are two different things, and I'd like to point out the current ES (though a sales leader) is an utter dissapointment not in build quality but material quality not worth of a $40-50K price tag.

 

I don't have an issue with the top end ES models, the problem is with the lower end models, the matrrisk s such as nulux is dreadful. And compared to the Avalin , it looks like Avalon is the real luxury car.

 

It's not even the NuLuxe I worry about as much as:

- Super hard plastic on center console + rough
- Hard rough plastic bezel around analog clock
- Thinly padded doors
- Doors don't have that nice Lexus "thud" anymore and don't close properly
- Super thin glove box door
- Terrible hard plastics around the memory seat buttons
- Cheap lock/unlock switch + window switches vs nice ones from GS, RX, GX, 3IS
- Poor version of Remote Touch - controller is tiny vs RX, GS
- Cheaper feeling/looking Drive Mode Selector vs GS's

It's really a shame. In fact if they want to save money, they should use the parts bin from higher level models like the GS rather than use separate pieces

 

Actually it was written and published by Edmunds.com and posted on Yahoo as well.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...st-decade.html

I do agree listing the LS600h L on that list is not fair bec its a high end trim line which rarely sell in big #s.

 

BTW There are so many 4GS in my area (NYC), im just shocked at the sales #s, maybe in middle America it doesn't sell well???
I literally see more 4GS than the new ES by far.
The GS has really grown on me especially in Fsport trim.

The new IS is gonna look CRAZY and turn lots of heads as well!

Lexus just needs the following:
- get the F-line cranking and
- bring out the RC coupe like NOW
- More POWERTRAIN OPTIONS (BMW, MB, AUDI, have a bunch - even Jaguar for Pete's sake has 5 different Powertrain Options for their XF Sedan )

 

Yes, the 4GS here in NYC is really everywhere, I think I see more 4GS lately than latest 5 series/ E class.

 

Points well taken. How do you feel about the Avalon?

 

Haven't had much time/experience around it to really give a solid opinion on the Avalon, though I do think the Avalon is better executed in its mission as an upscale car than the ES does as a Luxury car

 

This is a great thread and echos what my thoughts have been, especially since I'm in the market for a new car. I currently have an '07 IS350 and always hoped that it would come in a coupe (the IS convertible was an afterthought and an abomination IMHO).

I thought for sure the next IS would come in a coupe variant to match the likes of the BMW 3, Mercedes C class, Cadillac CTS, Infiniti G, and Audi A5. But no, the new IS has launched and not only is there no coupe, but there is no IS-F.

I have always loved Lexus, and really don't want to go anywhere else, but I might.

On the subject of hybrids, I disagree with some in that they are the future. With the growing success of Tesla and their Model S, I believe all electrics will be the future. As batteries technology gets better, there won't be a reason to marry gas and electric. Fully electric will also mean less parts and easier serviceability.

 

IS and GS will likely get F varians and IS will get a coupe... just few years after sedan, just like how germans do it with M3 and M5 and their coupes.

 

Well you should check it out sooner than later. The interior of the Avalon is luxury IMO. the outside looks better too. When looking at the options I am amazed that the Avalon comes with standard heated seats, leather and there is an option for heated in the rear. Strange you have to pay extra for these in luxury car such as the Es.

 

You can't even get heated rear seats on the ES as an option here

 

And that is the shame of it all. The non standard leather really bugs me.

 

It's probably no excuse, but maybe because the Avalon is Toyota's flagship sedan and the ES is Lexus entry level the Avalon seems to offer as much or more for less money.

 

Yes yes, we all know that the Avalon is a great car and may have been executed better than the ES. Fine. We get this.

If you think about this logically, it is a 37K car. Im not sure what more you can expect from Lexus when they have to make it in Japan, have to deal with exchange rates, and produce such a large for this price. I mean, when you have C classes and 3 series starting at this price in a smaller package, you realize that the ES is still a good deal. The Avalon comes to be about the same price if you get the XLE models without Lexus cachet.