dsadsauser

If your criteria for handling is strictly "feel", then yes, both publications agree. Using that logic, the Ford Model T would out-handle the 335i as well. You could feel every inch of the road in with that suspension. lol. You see, your way of measuring handling is flawed and based off the criteria of the media, not what yields better performance. When it comes to verifiable handling data, the BMW bests the IS350 in most cases. I think you and I both know the 335i would be the choice car of any of us at a track day.

Pretty much all of your credibility is gone, though, when you make statements like your last one. First, when you say for a road car skidpad means crap- as opposed to an off-road car, where skidpad is everything? Skidpad is an excellent measuring tool to gage the car's ability to maintain speed through a turn. Secondly, you stated your 3GS had "great" skidpad numbers.

1st google result was 0.79g
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...xus-gs-350-awd

2nd result 0.81g
http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genes...ison-test.html

I'm sure if I looked I could find something better, but let's just agree the 3GS isn't a skidpad nor track monster. It is a nice car though.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Seems like they packaged all these cars wrong and was more biased to the BMW. Call me the odd ball but I really like the S60 with the Polestar performance upgrade. Interior on the Volvo is not my favorite

LeX2K

Better lay off the

natnut

Like spywolf and myself have been saying, why are you so hung up on skidpad when the 3 series' slalom is definitely inferior to the IS and the slalom is a far better summation of the car's overall handling ability.

Seems like you're relying on skidpad as a crutch to save the F30 3 series' reputation as a driver's car.

It's not Lexus fans who are saying it. The criticism is EVERYWHERE : MotorTrend, Car and Driver, Edmund's and even here :


EVERYONE, including your fellow 3 series owners on BMW forums, are complaining of the worse handling, steering feel and feedback of the F30.

No one is saying the F30 is a crap car, it does most things well in other categories of judging a car like speed, acceleration, interior space, comfort etc

But let anyone say that the IS is a better handling car than the F30 and that the F30 is no longer the driver's car in its segment and you come out all defensive and dismissive of objective data and labelling us as BMW haters.

The reason I'm so hard on BMW is that no other car company claims that it is THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE or enjoys so much mainstream hype of being a "driver's car".

If it has that label of "UDM", it better well back it up with actual performance or it's just another case of an over-rated car living off past glories.

As a 3 series fan, you should be welcoming criticisms from people like me as it will force BMW not to go down the wrong path of luxury but return to its roots/core values.

Your current behavior seems more like emotional over-investment in your car purchase rather than a clear minded assessment of the 3 series weaknesses.

mrraider

If you read between the lines, the Volvo did very well. Decent acceleration, decent skidpad numbers, decent in the figure eight. Excellent safety, comfort and interior room. Very well in purchase price and depreciation. A lot of real world factors favor the Volvo, and make it a lot easier to live with day to day.

BTW, this car was not the T6 with Polestar flash. It was the R design which includes teh Polestar flash, better tires, and an upgraded suspension. It's about 3000$ more than a run of the mill T6.

My opinion of course, is unbiased

dsadsauser

Maybe the F30's mannerism on the road aren't what the auto journalists are used to as EPS is shaking things up quickly, but it's very possibly the future of steering. Porsche changed over, BMW now, Ferrari is starting to as well. It's really the only complaint anyone can make about the 335i.

No, if you look at objective data, the 335i is superior to the IS 350. It wins easily in the skidpad and in the figure 8. The only test the IS 350 has won is the slalom. Put the 2 cars head to head on the 'Ring, Lightning Lap, etc. and the 335i will handedly beat the IS 350.

This "critic" of the 335i doesn't seem to mind it too much on an actual track:


No emotions here. The 335i wins in nearly every objective category. The IS 350 is better suited for comparisons to the ATS. The 335i is better compared to the S4. They are more equals in performance comparison.

spwolf

it is getting sad when BMW fans have to point out "objective" data and not "feel" anymore.

Tables have turned.

:-)

SecPole14

EPS is fine if you do it RIGHT. BMW is doing it WRONG.

My Mustang GT has selectable EPS, and it has argulably the best steering feel of any American car ever, and probably one of the best EPS systems on the market in terms of "feel".

I test drove a 3 Series coupe w/sport pkg before I bought my GT. The steering felt so artificially heavy and numb it was unbelievable. It was the first time in years I had driven any of the newer-school BMWs and came away thoroughly disgusted. Like, that's it??? Why do people buy these cars?

Plenty of cars do EPS right, and HAVE been doing EPS right...

NSX
RX-8
current Mustang
etc.

What's BMW's excuse now? Their usual arrogance that we know best and you'll just have to accept our crappy EPS and still keep calling it the Ultimate Driving Machine? Fail.

LexBob2

Very good points to keep in mind. It's just a comparison test.

I enjoy reading them, but don't take it personally if my fav doesn't win. I do enjoy reading the letters to the editor, and their replies, after a compare won.

dsadsauser

I can buy that for sure. The only problem is Lexus has never really had objective data in their favor. So, I guess you could say one small victory in the category of "feel". Now, time to address the many other deficiencies. Sales will certainly show how many entusiasts speak with their dollar.

The first part of what you are saying is exactly right- the current debate. Is the software of the BMW correct or not? It is subjective. I do know that BMW has come out with an update to the EPS steering system, which can changes the feel dynamics.

Although, your second point makes me think you never drove the 335i or don't know how to drive. I actually had a 2013 Mustang GT as well (grabber blue) until my wife got pregnant. I can't have a car with a 3-star rear crash test rating with kids, so, I got the next best alternative. I have never heard anyone say the 335i is too "heavy". Everyone states the feeling is too light and soft. However, most 335i don't have the DHP (dynamic handling pkg.)- kind of like most GTs don't have the Track Pkg.- they mostly have the Brembo pkg. The actual Track Pkg. with the diff is somewhat rare. The DHP completely changes the feel of the car. This is what most of the people on here can't seem to grasp. The 335i in the MT article I'm guessing had it with a hefty MSRP. The real argument should be, the DHP should be standard equipment on the 335i. My 335i handles every bit as good as my GT did. I take the same corners in the GT as I do in my 335i at the same speed limits. Obviously, it doesn't feel nearly as fast. I ran a 12.7 @ 112 in my GT with a crappy 1.95 60 foot with 28 psi.

mmarshall

The Q50 will be a company-flagship...not in the same price (or maybe size) class as these tested cars.

Lexuslvr91

The G37/Q50 will be the entry level sport sedan. Since 2003 the essence of this car (I mean that since they changed the name of it) has always been targeted toward the 3-series. Granted it has always been classified as a midsize it still competes directly with the 3-series and every other car in the compact luxury sport sedan segment.

The M37/56/Q60 is the company flagship.

Lexuslvr91

Honestly I feel they should have simply used the sportiest version of each car.

Audi S4 quattro
Lexus IS350 F-Sport RWD
Cadillac ATS 3.6 RWD with sport package
BMW 335i with M-Sport package
Volvo S60 R-Design Polestar

Only the Audi and Volvo was engineered for Its highest performance to be had with an AWD system. Every other automaker's best performance vehicle is RWD. I will say BMW has been investing highly in AWD and MBs AMG division has been observing AWD as well.

mmarshall

Actually, the Q60, from what I can tell, is destined to be a G-sized coupe version of the Q50. Otherwise, I agree with you....I was partly wrong, and you were correct in pointing out that the Q50 will not be the large flagship Infiniti needs. But that seems to be because Infiniti might have changed their story. What they originally said (and I believed) about the new Q-series sedan was that it was supposed to be their new flagship (presumably above the M-series). That, as you point out, is not going to be the case. (and thanks for pointing that out).

SecPole14

That's right, insult my ability to drive.

At best, you're a joker. At worst, you're a troll. I'm putting you on permanent ignore list and would encourage everyone else here to do the same.