Why American motorists are walking away from automobiles
08-15-13, 11:46 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I wonder why I live alone here...
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In general, what will a body-on-frame SUV give you in a hard-pavement, congested urban area that a similiar unibody SUV won't...or do better?
Of course, if you are going to tow heavy loads, do some hard-core off-roading, or simply want a vehicle that is easier to do frame-repair after an acccident, then, yes, a BOF may be worth looking at.
Of course, if you are going to tow heavy loads, do some hard-core off-roading, or simply want a vehicle that is easier to do frame-repair after an acccident, then, yes, a BOF may be worth looking at.I think unibody SUVs are dumb. All the disadvantages of cars and trucks combined. No thanks.
I want a tough, capable, yet comfortable high-quality vehicle, period. In a reasonable price range, the GX is pretty much in a class of its own. I also like the way 4Runners/GX trucks ride in normal driving. Not really interested in other people's unsolicited opinions on this as my mind is pretty much made up, I was mainly just commenting that I indeed can relate to prioritizing comfort and capability over performance.
08-15-13, 11:54 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
We have been spoiled with vast land and low gas prices relative to anyone else for decades. People have made decisions that they feel are better for themselves in regards to fuel efficiency and maybe making less trips. However all this "end of the world" stuff is really overblown or you are not an enthusiast. Everyday I talk to people at meets and events. I drove to them all the time, going to one today. I still love the car and I've made some decisions to drive less and walk more and use mass transit.
Why are people acting like they cannot co-exist? Why are people acting like people stopped posting on internet forums, stopped being enthusiasts and stopped buying cars? I see people more than ever into automobiles and in the culture and shows and meets have never been more abundant and packed. Hell I was in Toronto and they had a meet where 1,500-2,000 cars show up EVERY THURSDAY (Eterfa). Tell them the car is dead.
Its funny I moved from the burbs to the heart of the city where I decided that for some things, driving wasn't as desirable as before, as in commutes and trips around. I can walk to do things The funny thing is even our house in the burbs, we made the conscience decision to live where we could walk to restaurants, parks etc. Maybe people need to stop wanting to live 8000 miles from the city/work/etc and get a little closer. ( I also blame developers with their completely WHACK plans that encourage driving and not walking but some areas are getting better in this regard)
Maybe people need to make some decisions on where they live etc etc instead of complaining that the car is just too expensive.
Why are people acting like they cannot co-exist? Why are people acting like people stopped posting on internet forums, stopped being enthusiasts and stopped buying cars? I see people more than ever into automobiles and in the culture and shows and meets have never been more abundant and packed. Hell I was in Toronto and they had a meet where 1,500-2,000 cars show up EVERY THURSDAY (Eterfa). Tell them the car is dead.
Its funny I moved from the burbs to the heart of the city where I decided that for some things, driving wasn't as desirable as before, as in commutes and trips around. I can walk to do things The funny thing is even our house in the burbs, we made the conscience decision to live where we could walk to restaurants, parks etc. Maybe people need to stop wanting to live 8000 miles from the city/work/etc and get a little closer. ( I also blame developers with their completely WHACK plans that encourage driving and not walking but some areas are getting better in this regard)
Maybe people need to make some decisions on where they live etc etc instead of complaining that the car is just too expensive.
08-15-13, 12:16 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Its a sign of the times but the car is not going anywhere. As American trend downward with their car purchases the manufacturers will be , and are already, focusing on foreign markets like chine were they are selling cars like crazy and getting more for the car than we pay here in some cases
08-15-13, 10:25 PM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
I'll cut off my left nut before I live in an urban area. I like living in a suburban neighborhood(my entire city is basically suburban). My dream is to have a decent house in an OK suburban neighborhood. I'll gladly put up with driving to work to avoid living in hell.
For now, I'm looking at ways to make my day more efficient. I live close enough to my University that I can walk to class. I did so for the first few semesters, but then I took a job that required me to be there within a few minutes of my classes getting out...so that meant taking the car to school in order to go directly to work afterwards. I have a more open schedule this last semester...I hope to take advantage of that(plus they increased the cost of a parking pass on campus).
What's kept me from running around a ton the last month is a lack of A/C. I've had a one month break between my last job and the job I start next week, and I've largely sat on my couch in front of the A/C vent.
For now, I'm looking at ways to make my day more efficient. I live close enough to my University that I can walk to class. I did so for the first few semesters, but then I took a job that required me to be there within a few minutes of my classes getting out...so that meant taking the car to school in order to go directly to work afterwards. I have a more open schedule this last semester...I hope to take advantage of that(plus they increased the cost of a parking pass on campus).
What's kept me from running around a ton the last month is a lack of A/C. I've had a one month break between my last job and the job I start next week, and I've largely sat on my couch in front of the A/C vent.
08-16-13, 09:01 AM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'll cut off my left nut before I live in an urban area. I like living in a suburban neighborhood(my entire city is basically suburban). My dream is to have a decent house in an OK suburban neighborhood. I'll gladly put up with driving to work to avoid living in hell.
For now, I'm looking at ways to make my day more efficient. I live close enough to my University that I can walk to class. I did so for the first few semesters, but then I took a job that required me to be there within a few minutes of my classes getting out...so that meant taking the car to school in order to go directly to work afterwards. I have a more open schedule this last semester...I hope to take advantage of that(plus they increased the cost of a parking pass on campus).
What's kept me from running around a ton the last month is a lack of A/C. I've had a one month break between my last job and the job I start next week, and I've largely sat on my couch in front of the A/C vent.
For now, I'm looking at ways to make my day more efficient. I live close enough to my University that I can walk to class. I did so for the first few semesters, but then I took a job that required me to be there within a few minutes of my classes getting out...so that meant taking the car to school in order to go directly to work afterwards. I have a more open schedule this last semester...I hope to take advantage of that(plus they increased the cost of a parking pass on campus).
What's kept me from running around a ton the last month is a lack of A/C. I've had a one month break between my last job and the job I start next week, and I've largely sat on my couch in front of the A/C vent.
Much prefer the city.
08-16-13, 09:03 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
08-16-13, 09:31 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
especially on Friday afternoon. It was awful....We made what I feel are smart decisions on where we lived in Atlanta, we were in the suburbs but again could walk to many places and if we needed to go downtown the freeway was less than 2 miles away and we didn't have to take it, we could take a local route downtown. As much as I love the car driving around stuck in traffic all the time is not my bag...unless maybe being chauffeured in a Rolls Royce
And who said anything about being in Atlanta
08-16-13, 10:25 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
And who said anything about being in Atlanta
Originally Posted by blueprint
Funny I consider suburbia hell. Much prefer the city.
08-16-13, 11:52 AM
#24
Out of Warranty
For me, while cities are hell, suburbs are just a slightly higher ring of hell (see Dante's Inferno). Now that I'm free of the daily slog to work, I'll take the country . . . if I can ever afford it. It seems a number of people are thinking the same thing, and country acreage is a seller's market.
Not so our Gen X, Gen Y, and our post-millennial workers. Many are now adapting to core urban life where a landscape of concrete replaces acres of grass and miles of glass/steel boxes, trees. For these folks, the plastic ficus in the corner of their cube is as close as they get to greenery. Not for me, thanks - I realize that cutting a commute to 10 minutes on the bus, or maybe a two-block walk down the street is a great alternative to a 55-minute freeway slog every morning and evening, but there is a downside.
First, because job situations are pretty fluid these days (if you've been employed for 4 years at the same address, you're an old-timer), you may have to move frequently to remain near your place of employment. Sometimes mergers and acquisitions move your job for you - sometimes across the country. In a slow real estate market, that can be dangerous - and it's becoming less advantageous to own your own home, given the likelihood you'll have to move rather frequently. Rental used to be denigrated as a great way to make your landlord rich, but today it is often the only sensible option for many.
Cost of car ownership, particularly for a daily commuter is going out of sight. Not only do you have the cost of the car, taxes, insurance, parking, gas, maintenance, and repairs, you have to understand you are spending all that on a depreciating asset - you're not going to win in any fiscal showdown. With the average car in America now being something like 11½ years old, it looks like the bloom is off the rose, automobile-wise; people are beginning to understand that even the cost of maintenance of an older ride is far cheaper than funding that first five year's depreciation. As the car becomes an appliance, rather than a status symbol, daily beaters are becoming more common, and they're being used less often in favor of mass transit in urban areas.
Finally as our recreational activities gravitate toward iPads and smartphones, the current generations are not getting outdoors - except for brief intervals during pub crawls. Fewer of us are walking (except those hard-core few who think walking is competitive and useful for exercise alone), while picnicking, daytripping and more extended road-tripping is becoming a lost form of weekend entertainment. If we're not shopping or playing video games, or on social media with our friends, we're watching TV, asleep, or at work (no, I didn't necessarily mean WORKING). Who needs a car for any of that? You and I may be the last generations of car nuts. Maybe we should apply for "endangered species" protection.
One of the last bastions of car culture are the "show" cars - the heavily modded vehicles that can't enter a sloped driveway, transit a speed bump, or even be driven on a bombed-out and potholed urban street without serious risk of vehicular damage or component failure. These stopped being "cars" in the conventional sense some time back, because they can't perform the ordinary tasks of transportation without a number of aesthetic and structural compromises. Heaven forbid they should ever get a raindrop or a speck of dust on their flawless finishes. Consider them rolling sculpture, rather delicate works that relegate them to the show barn rather than the pasture. Like any other hobby it gets expensive fast, but it's probably no more a foolish expenditure of capital than golf or fishing.
Not so our Gen X, Gen Y, and our post-millennial workers. Many are now adapting to core urban life where a landscape of concrete replaces acres of grass and miles of glass/steel boxes, trees. For these folks, the plastic ficus in the corner of their cube is as close as they get to greenery. Not for me, thanks - I realize that cutting a commute to 10 minutes on the bus, or maybe a two-block walk down the street is a great alternative to a 55-minute freeway slog every morning and evening, but there is a downside.
First, because job situations are pretty fluid these days (if you've been employed for 4 years at the same address, you're an old-timer), you may have to move frequently to remain near your place of employment. Sometimes mergers and acquisitions move your job for you - sometimes across the country. In a slow real estate market, that can be dangerous - and it's becoming less advantageous to own your own home, given the likelihood you'll have to move rather frequently. Rental used to be denigrated as a great way to make your landlord rich, but today it is often the only sensible option for many.
Cost of car ownership, particularly for a daily commuter is going out of sight. Not only do you have the cost of the car, taxes, insurance, parking, gas, maintenance, and repairs, you have to understand you are spending all that on a depreciating asset - you're not going to win in any fiscal showdown. With the average car in America now being something like 11½ years old, it looks like the bloom is off the rose, automobile-wise; people are beginning to understand that even the cost of maintenance of an older ride is far cheaper than funding that first five year's depreciation. As the car becomes an appliance, rather than a status symbol, daily beaters are becoming more common, and they're being used less often in favor of mass transit in urban areas.
Finally as our recreational activities gravitate toward iPads and smartphones, the current generations are not getting outdoors - except for brief intervals during pub crawls. Fewer of us are walking (except those hard-core few who think walking is competitive and useful for exercise alone), while picnicking, daytripping and more extended road-tripping is becoming a lost form of weekend entertainment. If we're not shopping or playing video games, or on social media with our friends, we're watching TV, asleep, or at work (no, I didn't necessarily mean WORKING). Who needs a car for any of that? You and I may be the last generations of car nuts. Maybe we should apply for "endangered species" protection.
One of the last bastions of car culture are the "show" cars - the heavily modded vehicles that can't enter a sloped driveway, transit a speed bump, or even be driven on a bombed-out and potholed urban street without serious risk of vehicular damage or component failure. These stopped being "cars" in the conventional sense some time back, because they can't perform the ordinary tasks of transportation without a number of aesthetic and structural compromises. Heaven forbid they should ever get a raindrop or a speck of dust on their flawless finishes. Consider them rolling sculpture, rather delicate works that relegate them to the show barn rather than the pasture. Like any other hobby it gets expensive fast, but it's probably no more a foolish expenditure of capital than golf or fishing.
08-16-13, 12:35 PM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
It seems you are basing this from the sidelines and turned into a rant about how people modify their cars. Who cares if "stance" culture is in, what is important are enthusiasts continue to modify and be a part of the culture.
Thats the problem with the internet. Too many people just talking and not doing or actively participating then saying "no one is participating".
For every kid on an iPad there is a kid wanting to own their first car. Times are changing but there is still a huge youthful car culture and maybe some of you need to move away from the keyboard and see for yourself or gasp, be a part of it.
The same crap was spewed in the 1970s when gas prices skyrocketed and people claimed the end was near. Now cars have never been better, there have never been more REAL enthusiasts and more car based activities, games, meets, shows, magazines etc.
The article also completely fails to mention that in the past it was easier to get a license, it is actually harder today. In many states the age to get your license is 18 now, no longer 16 so of course the percentages have dropped.
You would think people would argue against the latter in regards to the demise of the car but again, we real enthusiasts are few and far between since anyone can login the internet, make a name, and type.
Thats the problem with the internet. Too many people just talking and not doing or actively participating then saying "no one is participating".
For every kid on an iPad there is a kid wanting to own their first car. Times are changing but there is still a huge youthful car culture and maybe some of you need to move away from the keyboard and see for yourself or gasp, be a part of it.
The same crap was spewed in the 1970s when gas prices skyrocketed and people claimed the end was near. Now cars have never been better, there have never been more REAL enthusiasts and more car based activities, games, meets, shows, magazines etc.
The article also completely fails to mention that in the past it was easier to get a license, it is actually harder today. In many states the age to get your license is 18 now, no longer 16 so of course the percentages have dropped.
You would think people would argue against the latter in regards to the demise of the car but again, we real enthusiasts are few and far between since anyone can login the internet, make a name, and type.
08-16-13, 05:54 PM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
The article also completely fails to mention that in the past it was easier to get a license, it is actually harder today. In many states the age to get your license is 18 now, no longer 16 so of course the percentages have dropped.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-16-13 at 05:58 PM.
08-17-13, 10:54 AM
#28
Lexus Champion
I think cars (and car enthusiasts) will always be around -- I just think rail service for commuting purposes should be more prevalent...traffic, along with tons of accidents, make me just wanna drive on the weekends and completely avoid the freeways.
08-17-13, 10:29 PM
#29
American motorists need to switch to this!!
Gallery:
http://green.autoblog.com/photos/hyp...#photo-468715/
Earlier today, Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk Tweeted that he "Pulled all nighter working on Hyperloop (as did others). Hopefully not too many mistakes." We finally get a look at the first official details on this fantastical-sounding travel option, and it's a duesy.
Musk calls the Hyperloop a "fifth mode" of transportation (after planes, trains, cars and boats) that is, in the right application, better than all the others. That specific case is between major cities that are less than 900 miles apart. The system relies on tubes built between the cities that would be traversed by pods that have an "electric compressor fan [mounted] on the nose of the pod that actively transfers high pressure air from the front to the rear of the vessel. This is like having a pump in the head of the syringe actively relieving pressure," Musk wrote, and will help the Hyperloop overcome the Kantrowitz Limit (the top-speed law for a given tube-to-pod area ratio).
To propel the pods, we just have to look at the Model S. Musk envisions an external linear electric motor, "which is simply a round induction motor (like the one in the Tesla Model S) rolled flat. This
would accelerate the pod to high subsonic velocity and provide a periodic reboost roughly every 70 miles." The system would also be green as all get out. Thanks to solar panels on the top of the tube, "the Hyperloop can generate far in excess of the energy needed to operate. This takes into account storing enough energy in battery packs to operate at night and for periods of extended cloudy weather. The energy could also be stored in the form of compressed air that then runs an electric fan in reverse to generate energy, as demonstrated by LightSail," Musk wrote.
Musk first mentioned the Hyperloop a year ago, and there has been a lot of speculation as to what, exactly, the man who is forcing the auto industry to pay attention to electric vehicles and sending rockets into space can come up with. In a Tesla conference call last week, Musk admitted that the interest has been kind of intense and that, "I think I kind of shot myself in the foot by ever mentioning Hyperloop."
Musk's plan is to publish his "quite detailed design," let outsiders criticize and improve it, and then let it breathe as an "open source design that maybe you can keep improving and I don't have any plan to execute, because I must remain focused on SpaceX and Tesla." Today's proposal is called Hyperloop Alpha, after all. One of the people who may be able to take the idea further is John Gardi who, before the reveal, Musk said had "the best guess so far."
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/08/12...alpha-concept/
Elon Musk's Hyperloop Alpha takes travel to the next level, with tubes
Gallery:
http://green.autoblog.com/photos/hyp...#photo-468715/
Earlier today, Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk Tweeted that he "Pulled all nighter working on Hyperloop (as did others). Hopefully not too many mistakes." We finally get a look at the first official details on this fantastical-sounding travel option, and it's a duesy.
Musk calls the Hyperloop a "fifth mode" of transportation (after planes, trains, cars and boats) that is, in the right application, better than all the others. That specific case is between major cities that are less than 900 miles apart. The system relies on tubes built between the cities that would be traversed by pods that have an "electric compressor fan [mounted] on the nose of the pod that actively transfers high pressure air from the front to the rear of the vessel. This is like having a pump in the head of the syringe actively relieving pressure," Musk wrote, and will help the Hyperloop overcome the Kantrowitz Limit (the top-speed law for a given tube-to-pod area ratio).
To propel the pods, we just have to look at the Model S. Musk envisions an external linear electric motor, "which is simply a round induction motor (like the one in the Tesla Model S) rolled flat. This
would accelerate the pod to high subsonic velocity and provide a periodic reboost roughly every 70 miles." The system would also be green as all get out. Thanks to solar panels on the top of the tube, "the Hyperloop can generate far in excess of the energy needed to operate. This takes into account storing enough energy in battery packs to operate at night and for periods of extended cloudy weather. The energy could also be stored in the form of compressed air that then runs an electric fan in reverse to generate energy, as demonstrated by LightSail," Musk wrote.
Musk first mentioned the Hyperloop a year ago, and there has been a lot of speculation as to what, exactly, the man who is forcing the auto industry to pay attention to electric vehicles and sending rockets into space can come up with. In a Tesla conference call last week, Musk admitted that the interest has been kind of intense and that, "I think I kind of shot myself in the foot by ever mentioning Hyperloop."
Musk's plan is to publish his "quite detailed design," let outsiders criticize and improve it, and then let it breathe as an "open source design that maybe you can keep improving and I don't have any plan to execute, because I must remain focused on SpaceX and Tesla." Today's proposal is called Hyperloop Alpha, after all. One of the people who may be able to take the idea further is John Gardi who, before the reveal, Musk said had "the best guess so far."
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/08/12...alpha-concept/
