SteVTEC

Apples to Oranges like usual.

How much of a brand presence does Jeep have in these countries vs. Toyota? How easy is it to buy a Jeep there or even get one serviced vs. Toyota? How many dealerships does Toyota have in an area or country vs. Jeep? Far more to it than how exactly a vehicle is constructed. It's awesome that you always think things are so simple when they're not.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Automotiv...-U-S-made.html

Per the article, there's huge potential and even demand for Jeeps overseas, but the company has just plain not had the money to expand or support sales there nearly as much as they'd have liked. You're talking about a company that's been through financial turmoil in recent years. Has Toyota?

I'm more into photography than cars. Why are Canon cameras so much more prevalent in Asian markets than Nikon? Because Nikon has little to no sales presence in a lot of Asian markets outside of their Japan home market, whereas Canon piggypacks camera sales support in with their huge office equipment business literally everywhere for little added cost. It's not because Canon is necessarily "better" with their photography gear, or that people don't want Nikons. Tough to buy something if it isn't really offered for sale and you can't get support when you need it, right? Same thing, different market.

TangoRed

Thank you.


Also spwolf, I hear what you're saying about Autoblog's mention but you can't ignore this:

2011 Grand Cherokee vs. 2010 4Runner Trail Ediition

Jeep Grand Cherokee vs. Kia Borrego, Nissan Pathfinder, Toyota 4Runner

Jeep Grand Cherokee bests Toyota 4Runner in latest Consumer Reports testing

Also...sorry but this is an SUV. Perhaps not typical based on your definition, but this aint no crossover.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Your articles reinforce his point, and mine. The 4Runner is more capable off road, but the Grand Cherokee is a better all-arounder for most people.

Also, your "aint no crossover" picture is of an ancient Jeep Cherokee, not the new Grand Cherokee, so that's pointless. What else should we add to this discussion? The FJ Cruiser? The Land Cruiser? The G Wagon? Hummer?

pbm317

The older Jeep Cherokee is pictured because it's also a "unibody" which spwolf is using as a basis of what to call a "real" suv.

mmarshall

Nowadays, though, because of computer-designed frame/chassis and new, stronger metal-alloys, unibody designs CAN sometimes be used on "Real" SUVs.

TangoRed

Someone hasn't been following the conversation very well. Perhaps you should re-read what I was disagreeing with. Yes, the Grand Cherokee is a great all-rounder, but that doesn't make it less of a 4Runner competitor, especially for the non-Trail Edition models. Even with the Trail Edition package, the 4Runner's off-road chops are marginally better at best.

You'll need to go find where spwolf said a unibody vehicle can't be a real SUV. The Cherokee was the first SUV that proved that's not necessarily true...hence why I brought it up. I enjoyed your snarky response though. Shame about the execution...

Tantrix

the 4runner is too expensive man...but I do understand the status the 4runner has earned as the ultimate suv...hence the high price tag. maybe a used one since the body style is a few years old, but for new I'd rather go for the gc when chrysler offers like 5000 or 6000 off msrp. Of which they usually do since that's what it takes to move their cars.

they are in totally different ball parks in terms of perception.

SteVTEC

If anybody needs what a body-on-frame SUV off-roader offers with a little bit of space, I think Jeep fully expects people to buy the 4-door Wrangler. Selling like hot cakes here in the DC area, and in general from what I've read.

Sweatshop

iTrader: (11)

Beautiful vehicle style-wise but I'll hold my breath until they're out a while. Build quality and reliability have always been the Chyrsler Group's achilles heel. SRT Viper is already suffering from production woes and it isn't even out officially yet.

jwong77

So going by the logic employed here, that body-on-frame are the only true off roaders, since a Range Rover is a unibody architecture, I guess it doesn't count as a true off roader then too? And the 4Runner is superior to it in off road capabilities?

SteVTEC

Modern JGCs have been pretty darned good. Just checked Consumer Reports. Nothing like much older Jeeps. Wouldn't worry about it, especially since this is a refresh model and not a full redesign.

TangoRed

SteVTEC already said, this is just a refresh. This generation itself is been on the streets since late 2010 as a 2011 model. It should also make you feel better that the transmission is the same ZF 8-speed found in many luxury cars.

Also, the SRT Viper has been out on the streets and for sale for several months now. It's also hand built in it's own factory to different standards. I sit on those forums a lot and I still don't understand how MotorTrend ended up with such a poor example.

bagwell

there's one of these parked near my office every day.....very nice!

oh and to address reliability concerns - Jeep extended warranties are crazy cheap!

Infra

iTrader: (1)

I think they softened the design a bit. I prefer the prior look, it's a bit more square and "rugged", which is what an SUV should be.

mmarshall

The Wrangler, though, appeals mostly to younger people who can tolerate its crudeness and relatively stiff ride (especially the hard-core Rubicon version). Older people, though, (and some younger ones as well) may be looking for a little more in refinement, trim, and creature-comfort.