2015 Genesis Sedan Thread
01-06-14, 11:57 AM
#587
Lead Lap
01-06-14, 12:03 PM
#588
Lexus Fanatic
Wait and see as more people who are in their 20s now get into the price ranges where they are going to be buying these cars. Remember that with every passing year successive generations form new perceptions of brands. At one time Toyota was considered a cheap, crappy car compared to American cars.
Why do you think the original LS was so successful? Yes it was a great car...but it was also absurdly cheap for what it was.
01-06-14, 03:00 PM
#591
Lexus Test Driver
I like the dash. It's clean, easy on the eyes, and doesn't offer gimmicky styling anywhere. About the only spot I'd say is bold or odd is the center dash vents being flipped and not matching.
01-06-14, 03:17 PM
#592
Lexus Champion
01-06-14, 03:26 PM
#593
Lexus Fanatic
The original Toyopet (the 1950's forerunner of American-market Toyotas) WAS a cheap, crappy car. That was not simply a perception, but a historical fact. It had a toy-car engine that couldn't move the car out of its own way, the sheet metal rusted out if you so much as spit on it, it was cramped and uncomfortable for anyone even near American adult height, it was noisy enough inside to wake up the dead, and it folded up like an accordion in almost any kind of crash at all.
At one time Toyota made cheap crappy cars, now they don't and people don't hold that against them. My point was the same will ultimately be true with Hyundai.
Unlike the Toyopet of the 1950s, when Toyota introduced the LS400 more than 30 years later, despite the comparatively bargain price compared to its competition, they designed the car correctly. Although there were a few minor issues (like slightly undersized brake rotors that tended to warp), in general, it quickly set a new industry standard for refinement, reliability, and comfort at a relatively affordable price. The rest is history.
01-06-14, 03:54 PM
#596
Lexus Fanatic
Thats the point. The Genesis is a E Class, GS & 5 Series style car for C Class, ES or 3 Series money.
If you notice the Equus is an S Class, LS & 7 series style car for E Class, GS, or 5 Series money.
Again, the fact that people are comparing the interiors here. Huge win for Hyundai...
If you notice the Equus is an S Class, LS & 7 series style car for E Class, GS, or 5 Series money.
Again, the fact that people are comparing the interiors here. Huge win for Hyundai...
01-07-14, 10:15 AM
#598
Lexus Fanatic
80s and early 90s Hyundais were cheap, crappy cars too. I don't get your point.
At one time Toyota made cheap crappy cars, now they don't and people don't hold that against them. My point was the same will ultimately be true with Hyundai.
Again...what you post has nothing to do with my point or the discussion at hand.
At one time Toyota made cheap crappy cars, now they don't and people don't hold that against them. My point was the same will ultimately be true with Hyundai.
Again...what you post has nothing to do with my point or the discussion at hand.
01-07-14, 11:31 AM
#599
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
some good reasonable discussion here. thanks all!
they do factor, but what's laughable is a ton of bmw's cars are made in south carolina now, and many are exported BACK to europe. 
i believe honda even exports accords made in ohio. the lexus rx is made in canada (except hybrid one), and i've no doubt the es will be made somewhere outside japan soon to keep costs/margins better.
lexus certainly trumpeted (wonderfully) the impeccable quality of the ls400 in particular, but the japanese weren't known for luxury cars (outside japan), and their chief competition: mercedes/bmw/audi weren't thought of as poor quality, although lexus certainly showed that they were. but the ls400 did well because of refinement, quality, luxury, service, GREAT PRICE, and brilliant marketing. on that note, i realize the competition has caught up in those areas, and now hyundai (in a less spectacular and slow burn way) is trying to out-lexus lexus.
they're rising quickly in those areas. of course kia even has a model called 'soul' 
also, the world has definitely taken notice of how s. korea is now making most of the world's flat panel displays and tons of phones and is a sophisticated developed country with very high tech. japan on the other hand, is aging and shrinking, although still capable of amazing things.
true. history/trends are hard to change, which is what made lexus' launch so spectacular, and i can speak for myself in saying when the second 'punch' occurred (to me), the GS400 with genius 'something wicked this way comes', i was completely smitten and bowled over (and bought one and modded the snot out of it ) and later, an RX for (ex) wife, which was another GAME CHANGER. since then, it seems things have been more incremental, with an extremely haphazard and inconsistent marketing effort. the best thing to come out of lexus in the last decade is the LF-A, which was beyond spectacular, but ultimately not that relevant to the brand, IMO.
agreed 
i think we're saying the same thing...
not all people, but some. when i bought lexus, i couldn't really care less that it was called lexus, but that's just me. in fact, i didn't even care for what i would call the 'stuffy' dealerships, especially when i found the salespeople were as bad or worse as every other place. 
besides branding, car makers of course want to keep the volumes of their successful models going or getting even higher... and many people also stick with brands/models they know (comfort zone). but car makers work REALLY HARD to make new models of winners as competitive as possible, although they do make mistakes of course - sometimes correcting them successfully, sometimes not.
very well said. of course hyundai/kia will have setbacks, and may even become less popular, but more competition for all is a good thing.
Like it or not, nationalistic labels factor into the strength of car brands. German cars are seen as the most prestigious, then other European cars, then Japanese cars, then American cars, then Korean cars. This is especially true in how cars are presented in automotive media here.
i believe honda even exports accords made in ohio. the lexus rx is made in canada (except hybrid one), and i've no doubt the es will be made somewhere outside japan soon to keep costs/margins better.
When Lexus launched in the late 80s and 90s, "Japanese" was synonymous with "quality". Lexus was smart enough to realize that, and capitalized on the whole "quality" thing in their marketing and products. "Quality" set Japanese cars and Lexus apart from other cars. So I can't agree with you there.
Hyundai/Korean are not synonymous with quality and refinement, aren't renowned for engineering prowess, they are not considered to have "soul", and so in both tangible and superficial areas that influence desirability, they come up short.
also, the world has definitely taken notice of how s. korea is now making most of the world's flat panel displays and tons of phones and is a sophisticated developed country with very high tech. japan on the other hand, is aging and shrinking, although still capable of amazing things.
These days the whole image thing is a huge uphill battle for everyone but the Germans, who now as Lexus/Japan's quality advantage has reduced, are enjoying the windfalls of simply being German luxury cars. BMW and Mercedes sales have exploded in the US. Even brands like Audi who aren't doing quite as well sales wise continue to enjoy free marketing in our media that associates them with the far more successful BMW and Mercedes and against brands like Lexus and Cadillac for simply being German.
) and later, an RX for (ex) wife, which was another GAME CHANGER. since then, it seems things have been more incremental, with an extremely haphazard and inconsistent marketing effort. the best thing to come out of lexus in the last decade is the LF-A, which was beyond spectacular, but ultimately not that relevant to the brand, IMO.
Lexus has been completely stupid as of late by abandoning their image strengths in marketing. Gone is quality, refinement and the pursuit of perfection:
...
"An entirely new pursuit" it says it right there in the commercial. Fail. Boy have Mercedes in particular capitalized on this nonsense Lexus marketing and resulting image decline in recent years.
...
"An entirely new pursuit" it says it right there in the commercial. Fail. Boy have Mercedes in particular capitalized on this nonsense Lexus marketing and resulting image decline in recent years.
i think we're saying the same thing...
Branding is important to people who buy high end luxury cars (prestige),
and to people who buy low end economy cars (predictability and security). Just look at the never-has-been-better sales of BMW and Mercedes at the top end - despite growing competition, and #1 sales positions of cars like the Corolla and Civic - again despite growing competition.
If you polled consumers today and asked them to rank carmakers by name when it comes to their perception of the brand, Hyundai may not be up there with Toyota and Honda...but they will be higher than they would have been 10 years ago, and certainly 20 years ago. In 10 more years they will be higher...in 10 more...higher.
Thats how these things work. Its not a battle that is won in 1, 5 or even 10 years. Hyundai is here to stay, and they are here to compete. if you look at what they are doing today vs what they were doing in 2004...the difference is staggering. IMHO they now have a product that is overall as good...and perhaps better in some ways than what is being made at Honda and Toyota. What they need to work on is brand perception, and that comes from making good products over time.
Thats how these things work. Its not a battle that is won in 1, 5 or even 10 years. Hyundai is here to stay, and they are here to compete. if you look at what they are doing today vs what they were doing in 2004...the difference is staggering. IMHO they now have a product that is overall as good...and perhaps better in some ways than what is being made at Honda and Toyota. What they need to work on is brand perception, and that comes from making good products over time.
01-07-14, 11:48 AM
#600
Lexus Fanatic
I never said that wasn't the case. What I said was however incredible a product it was, it would not have been as successful if the incredible value had not also been there.