Are you ready for automatic drive-through gas fill-ups?
10-28-13 | 03:12 PM
#1
Are you ready for automatic drive-through gas fill-ups?
Are you ready for automatic drive-through gas fill-ups?
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/27/a...fill-up-video/
10-28-13 | 03:22 PM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
From: Lake Ray Hubbard
Looks good. It would be outstanding on a rainy day, plus you wouldn't have to tip the attendant. The only thing I liked about having to go to Jersey to see my grandparents were the full service stations due to their weird mandate that people can't pump their own gas.
10-28-13 | 03:30 PM
#3
Out of Warranty
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,926
Likes: 12
From: Houston, Republic of Texas
Shell prototyped these here on their Research Park campus about 20 years ago. The device doesn't seem to have changed much, but it does appear to have reduced the amount of "hunting" by the original model while trying to locate the gas cap. As a new product, that model didn't seem to offer significant advantages, especially considering its initial cost and long-term maintenance. After a year or two of testing on their fleet cars, the product was dropped.
10-29-13 | 10:15 AM
#6
Out of Warranty
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,926
Likes: 12
From: Houston, Republic of Texas
If we could work on not just the battery but the rate at which it could be charged, maybe we'd have something. If we could recharge sufficiently for two or three hours of driving in ten minutes or less, electrics could be competitive. At the present state of the art, that would require not a load of batteries, but a trailer full of capacitors, methinks. 
Actually, automating the gas delivery process is more complex than we first think. I've worked with the development of oilfield automation for a number of years, and there's a lot of searching and processing a human does unconsciously that a machine has to step through very carefully. First of all, there are a couple of criteria to be met. The system has to compare in speed to a human - although the convenience factor may allow a few extra seconds for the machine and still be competitive. Next, the robotic system has to operate on any vehicle that pulls up to the pump. No fair painting a target on the gas flap. Finally, the robot has to open the flap, extend the filler into the tank and achieve a positive connection with both fuel and vapor recovery systems, remove the filler and close the flap without damaging the finish on the car. That's simple to you and me, but a pretty tall order for a machine.
There's a two-part robot here. The first part of it must locate the driver's window (assuming he parked on the proper spot), and extend an interface to the customer's window so that a card may be swiped and a selection made (think drive-up ATM here, but one that comes to you). Meanwhile a second robot has to locate your gas flap. That may require a bit of searching because different makes, models, and years of cars have gas flaps located in slightly different places. If your car is lowered, the robot is going to have to "see" it because it can't be programmed with a location when you have modded your ride height. Then the robot has to open the flap (assuming you haven't unlocked it yourself from inside the car. That robot has to be able to detect the difference between a conventional and a remote gas flap and respond accordingly. The interface robot may have to request you release the flap.
IF you have a "touchless" gas cap, the robot has to extend the fuel and vapor recovery lines to the tank, make a liquid and vapor-tight connection, fill the tank quickly, or deliver the requested volume or dollar amount, then retrace its steps, releasing the connection backing away, closing the flap, and returning to a "stowed" position.
But then there are the finer points of the operation: Both parts of the machine have to be able to sense obstacles - if a human gets in the way, it has to stop and back away instantly to prevent injury. People are known to do some really stupid things at the pump - we've all seen them. The system has to have some kind of "intelligence" in order to protect us from our sins. Remember, in order to work quickly and efficiently, the robot is going to have to possess a fair amount of power, and unless controlled, it is capable of doing a good deal of damage. It's going to have to have a fairly complex program to know when to breakaway and returned to the stowed or "home" position without entrapping a human in the mechanism.
The system has to be fault-tolerant. It can't crush an onlooker, and it has to be "aware" of its surroundings. It has to recognize a "drive-off" should a customer leave while the filler is still engaged, and it has to respond appropriately when there is an error in locating or opening the gas flap. Remember this system is delivering a highly flammable substance, it is having to locate and open gas flap without destroying the paint, and it has to do all gently, while serving the vast variety of filler locations, acceptable flow rates, and back-pressure cutoffs.
I've found that machines, while they can be taught to do amazing things, they don't often play well with humans. We are accustomed to nuances in our environment - maybe your gas filler requires a high "angle of attack" to properly engage the nozzle, maybe a much lower angle for mine. The machine is going to have to be able to recognize the difference and not stab around in the dark looking for a good connection. From that standpoint, machines are extremely literal - they do precisely what they are told and do it very well. They are not naturally accepting of variables that we meatbags impose on them. That's going to be the problem. It's probably going to be cheaper for the store owner to return to the days when he had a gas monkey on the island to pump your gas for you.
Actually, automating the gas delivery process is more complex than we first think. I've worked with the development of oilfield automation for a number of years, and there's a lot of searching and processing a human does unconsciously that a machine has to step through very carefully. First of all, there are a couple of criteria to be met. The system has to compare in speed to a human - although the convenience factor may allow a few extra seconds for the machine and still be competitive. Next, the robotic system has to operate on any vehicle that pulls up to the pump. No fair painting a target on the gas flap. Finally, the robot has to open the flap, extend the filler into the tank and achieve a positive connection with both fuel and vapor recovery systems, remove the filler and close the flap without damaging the finish on the car. That's simple to you and me, but a pretty tall order for a machine.
There's a two-part robot here. The first part of it must locate the driver's window (assuming he parked on the proper spot), and extend an interface to the customer's window so that a card may be swiped and a selection made (think drive-up ATM here, but one that comes to you). Meanwhile a second robot has to locate your gas flap. That may require a bit of searching because different makes, models, and years of cars have gas flaps located in slightly different places. If your car is lowered, the robot is going to have to "see" it because it can't be programmed with a location when you have modded your ride height. Then the robot has to open the flap (assuming you haven't unlocked it yourself from inside the car. That robot has to be able to detect the difference between a conventional and a remote gas flap and respond accordingly. The interface robot may have to request you release the flap.
IF you have a "touchless" gas cap, the robot has to extend the fuel and vapor recovery lines to the tank, make a liquid and vapor-tight connection, fill the tank quickly, or deliver the requested volume or dollar amount, then retrace its steps, releasing the connection backing away, closing the flap, and returning to a "stowed" position.
But then there are the finer points of the operation: Both parts of the machine have to be able to sense obstacles - if a human gets in the way, it has to stop and back away instantly to prevent injury. People are known to do some really stupid things at the pump - we've all seen them. The system has to have some kind of "intelligence" in order to protect us from our sins. Remember, in order to work quickly and efficiently, the robot is going to have to possess a fair amount of power, and unless controlled, it is capable of doing a good deal of damage. It's going to have to have a fairly complex program to know when to breakaway and returned to the stowed or "home" position without entrapping a human in the mechanism.
The system has to be fault-tolerant. It can't crush an onlooker, and it has to be "aware" of its surroundings. It has to recognize a "drive-off" should a customer leave while the filler is still engaged, and it has to respond appropriately when there is an error in locating or opening the gas flap. Remember this system is delivering a highly flammable substance, it is having to locate and open gas flap without destroying the paint, and it has to do all gently, while serving the vast variety of filler locations, acceptable flow rates, and back-pressure cutoffs.
I've found that machines, while they can be taught to do amazing things, they don't often play well with humans. We are accustomed to nuances in our environment - maybe your gas filler requires a high "angle of attack" to properly engage the nozzle, maybe a much lower angle for mine. The machine is going to have to be able to recognize the difference and not stab around in the dark looking for a good connection. From that standpoint, machines are extremely literal - they do precisely what they are told and do it very well. They are not naturally accepting of variables that we meatbags impose on them. That's going to be the problem. It's probably going to be cheaper for the store owner to return to the days when he had a gas monkey on the island to pump your gas for you.
10-29-13 | 11:07 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,459
Likes: 1
From: Makati, Philippines
Oooh, that is unique and interesting (especially since most fuel stations in America operate on self-service)
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10-29-13 | 11:10 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 22,608
Likes: 102
From: Waiting for next track day
its about time. We are all exposed to low levels of carcinogens when near gas. This is great. when I visit NJ they dont even allow you to do it yourself. You just roll down the window and tell the dude what you want then pay. Easy.
10-29-13 | 12:34 PM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
If we could work on not just the battery but the rate at which it could be charged, maybe we'd have something. If we could recharge sufficiently for two or three hours of driving in ten minutes or less, electrics could be competitive. At the present state of the art, that would require not a load of batteries, but a trailer full of capacitors, methinks.
Actually, automating the gas delivery process is more complex than we first think. I've worked with the development of oilfield automation for a number of years, and there's a lot of searching and processing a human does unconsciously that a machine has to step through very carefully. First of all, there are a couple of criteria to be met. The system has to compare in speed to a human - although the convenience factor may allow a few extra seconds for the machine and still be competitive. Next, the robotic system has to operate on any vehicle that pulls up to the pump. No fair painting a target on the gas flap. Finally, the robot has to open the flap, extend the filler into the tank and achieve a positive connection with both fuel and vapor recovery systems, remove the filler and close the flap without damaging the finish on the car. That's simple to you and me, but a pretty tall order for a machine.
There's a two-part robot here. The first part of it must locate the driver's window (assuming he parked on the proper spot), and extend an interface to the customer's window so that a card may be swiped and a selection made (think drive-up ATM here, but one that comes to you). Meanwhile a second robot has to locate your gas flap. That may require a bit of searching because different makes, models, and years of cars have gas flaps located in slightly different places. If your car is lowered, the robot is going to have to "see" it because it can't be programmed with a location when you have modded your ride height. Then the robot has to open the flap (assuming you haven't unlocked it yourself from inside the car. That robot has to be able to detect the difference between a conventional and a remote gas flap and respond accordingly. The interface robot may have to request you release the flap.
IF you have a "touchless" gas cap, the robot has to extend the fuel and vapor recovery lines to the tank, make a liquid and vapor-tight connection, fill the tank quickly, or deliver the requested volume or dollar amount, then retrace its steps, releasing the connection backing away, closing the flap, and returning to a "stowed" position.
But then there are the finer points of the operation: Both parts of the machine have to be able to sense obstacles - if a human gets in the way, it has to stop and back away instantly to prevent injury. People are known to do some really stupid things at the pump - we've all seen them. The system has to have some kind of "intelligence" in order to protect us from our sins. Remember, in order to work quickly and efficiently, the robot is going to have to possess a fair amount of power, and unless controlled, it is capable of doing a good deal of damage. It's going to have to have a fairly complex program to know when to breakaway and returned to the stowed or "home" position without entrapping a human in the mechanism.
The system has to be fault-tolerant. It can't crush an onlooker, and it has to be "aware" of its surroundings. It has to recognize a "drive-off" should a customer leave while the filler is still engaged, and it has to respond appropriately when there is an error in locating or opening the gas flap. Remember this system is delivering a highly flammable substance, it is having to locate and open gas flap without destroying the paint, and it has to do all gently, while serving the vast variety of filler locations, acceptable flow rates, and back-pressure cutoffs.
I've found that machines, while they can be taught to do amazing things, they don't often play well with humans. We are accustomed to nuances in our environment - maybe your gas filler requires a high "angle of attack" to properly engage the nozzle, maybe a much lower angle for mine. The machine is going to have to be able to recognize the difference and not stab around in the dark looking for a good connection. From that standpoint, machines are extremely literal - they do precisely what they are told and do it very well. They are not naturally accepting of variables that we meatbags impose on them. That's going to be the problem. It's probably going to be cheaper for the store owner to return to the days when he had a gas monkey on the island to pump your gas for you.
Actually, automating the gas delivery process is more complex than we first think. I've worked with the development of oilfield automation for a number of years, and there's a lot of searching and processing a human does unconsciously that a machine has to step through very carefully. First of all, there are a couple of criteria to be met. The system has to compare in speed to a human - although the convenience factor may allow a few extra seconds for the machine and still be competitive. Next, the robotic system has to operate on any vehicle that pulls up to the pump. No fair painting a target on the gas flap. Finally, the robot has to open the flap, extend the filler into the tank and achieve a positive connection with both fuel and vapor recovery systems, remove the filler and close the flap without damaging the finish on the car. That's simple to you and me, but a pretty tall order for a machine.
There's a two-part robot here. The first part of it must locate the driver's window (assuming he parked on the proper spot), and extend an interface to the customer's window so that a card may be swiped and a selection made (think drive-up ATM here, but one that comes to you). Meanwhile a second robot has to locate your gas flap. That may require a bit of searching because different makes, models, and years of cars have gas flaps located in slightly different places. If your car is lowered, the robot is going to have to "see" it because it can't be programmed with a location when you have modded your ride height. Then the robot has to open the flap (assuming you haven't unlocked it yourself from inside the car. That robot has to be able to detect the difference between a conventional and a remote gas flap and respond accordingly. The interface robot may have to request you release the flap.
IF you have a "touchless" gas cap, the robot has to extend the fuel and vapor recovery lines to the tank, make a liquid and vapor-tight connection, fill the tank quickly, or deliver the requested volume or dollar amount, then retrace its steps, releasing the connection backing away, closing the flap, and returning to a "stowed" position.
But then there are the finer points of the operation: Both parts of the machine have to be able to sense obstacles - if a human gets in the way, it has to stop and back away instantly to prevent injury. People are known to do some really stupid things at the pump - we've all seen them. The system has to have some kind of "intelligence" in order to protect us from our sins. Remember, in order to work quickly and efficiently, the robot is going to have to possess a fair amount of power, and unless controlled, it is capable of doing a good deal of damage. It's going to have to have a fairly complex program to know when to breakaway and returned to the stowed or "home" position without entrapping a human in the mechanism.
The system has to be fault-tolerant. It can't crush an onlooker, and it has to be "aware" of its surroundings. It has to recognize a "drive-off" should a customer leave while the filler is still engaged, and it has to respond appropriately when there is an error in locating or opening the gas flap. Remember this system is delivering a highly flammable substance, it is having to locate and open gas flap without destroying the paint, and it has to do all gently, while serving the vast variety of filler locations, acceptable flow rates, and back-pressure cutoffs.
I've found that machines, while they can be taught to do amazing things, they don't often play well with humans. We are accustomed to nuances in our environment - maybe your gas filler requires a high "angle of attack" to properly engage the nozzle, maybe a much lower angle for mine. The machine is going to have to be able to recognize the difference and not stab around in the dark looking for a good connection. From that standpoint, machines are extremely literal - they do precisely what they are told and do it very well. They are not naturally accepting of variables that we meatbags impose on them. That's going to be the problem. It's probably going to be cheaper for the store owner to return to the days when he had a gas monkey on the island to pump your gas for you.
This sounds like a very complicated solution for a problem nobody was really asking to be fixed, thus why it's never gone anywhere.
10-29-13 | 02:26 PM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,708
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
No thanks...I'll do it myself. I just won't gas up in New Jersey.
10-30-13 | 10:54 AM
#12
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,459
Likes: 1
From: Makati, Philippines
Originally Posted by mmarshall
No thanks...I'll do it myself. I just won't gas up in New Jersey.
Here in the Philippines though, all petrol/gas stations are full-service (it's the standard norm here)...
10-30-13 | 11:11 AM
#13
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: AK
Oregon won't let you pump your gas either, I freaked out a guy when I forgot this back in Spetember when I was in Portland for a week and had the pump in the tank and was about to pump when a panicked attendant ran over and said I can't do that....so I told him how much and he wandered off, I had to get out and stop the pump (I didn't want a full tank) and then wait 5 more mins for him to come back. It was 90 degrees and I was sweating to death waiting for the guy to come back....
anyway this system appears to work great if your tank door is on the left. All my BMWs have it on the right.....I wonder how they will deal with that on the automated pay station. I don't think it will go around the car to the other side drivers window so you can pay, which means you still have to get out to swipe your card anyway. .
anyway this system appears to work great if your tank door is on the left. All my BMWs have it on the right.....I wonder how they will deal with that on the automated pay station. I don't think it will go around the car to the other side drivers window so you can pay, which means you still have to get out to swipe your card anyway. .
10-30-13 | 03:22 PM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 22,608
Likes: 102
From: Waiting for next track day
OK, so who's responsible then, if or when some bozo who doesn't know what he or she is doing scratches up your paint with the filler-nozzle, forgets to screw the gas-cap back on (it happens), pumps in dirt-ridden gas that gets stirred up underground while the tanker-truck is delivering, or runs gas down the side of the car and stains the paint (if it isn't cleaned off in time?) Or, even worse, puts diesel-fuel into a gas engine (or vice-versa)?
No thanks...I'll do it myself. I just won't gas up in New Jersey.
No thanks...I'll do it myself. I just won't gas up in New Jersey.