Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Lutz says Washington killed Pontiac, next G6 was to be ATS derivative

How many people think Buick or GMC should have gotten the axe instead of Pontiac? You can't see it, but I'm raising my hand. Autoweek reports that former Vice Chairman of GM, Bob Lutz, has indicated that things didn't have to end up the way they did.

"The Feds said, 'Yeah, how much money have you made on Pontiac in the last 10 years?' and the answer was, 'Nothing.'"

In a talk given at the Petersen Automotive Museum for the Inside the MotoMan Studio series, Lutz says "The Feds said, 'Yeah, how much money have you made on Pontiac in the last 10 years?' and the answer was, 'Nothing.' So, it goes. And when the guy who is handing you the check for $53 billion says, 'I don't want Pontiac, drop Pontiac or you don't get the money,' it doesn't take you very long to make up your mind." Lutz even added that the next-generation Pontiac G6 would have benefitted from the rear-wheel-drive platform of the Cadillac ATS.


http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/29/l...-be-ats-deriv/

SteVTEC

Well it's nice what the next G6 "would have been", but the bottom line is that most Pontiacs were crap. My favorite was the Grand Prix, but they really weren't very good cars, and no sales outside of the U.S. really. Buick, due to China sales, and GMC and Chevy and the other brands made more sense. I thought GMC could have gone, too. Plenty of analysts had been saying for years that GM had way too many brands, so as much as I don't like it when the government tells the private sector what to do, what happened is probably what needed to happen. I do miss Pontiac, but don't miss Saturn at all.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

^Exactly. Lutz talking about Pontiac this far after the fact is just senseless.

LexFather

Well I think they were finally going to take Pontiac somewhat serious as the performance marque as the G8 was new right when the brand folded.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

That's the shame right there. Just when an interesting change was happening at GM, it was too late. This is what Pontiac should have been all about. The G6 and G8 RWD sedans, a new GTO coupe, and a roadster to start. That's all they needed to remain a sport niche. But instead they diluted the whole brand with Aztek, Torrent, Montana SV6, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Vibe :/

RIP Pontiac and what could have been

mmarshall

Contrary to many opinions in the auto press, Buick was not kept just because of Chinese sales. The brand has been almost completely transformed right here in the U.S. In addition to that, with the demise of Oldsmobile and Mercury, those former customers had few other places to shop outside of Buick and Chrysler.

What happened at Saturn after 1999-2000, IMO, was nothing short of criminal. In the 1990's, it was one of the most successful new-brand launches in history, setting new standards in a low-priced brand for customer service, ease-of-purchase, and money-back guarantees for buyers' remorse. But, in its second decade, GM management clearly forgot what made the company successful (compact, reliable, plastic-bodied cars with unique features) and tried to make it into another run-of-the-mill GM division. The result was nothing short of diastrous.

Had Saturn been sensibly managed after 2000, and kept at what it originally did best, it would still probably be in buisness.

I8ABMR

LOL. GM killed Pontiac because they were such a poor company and didn't know how to manage themselves. The Government just made them address the issue. Its like getting lung cancer and blaming the Dr because you can't run a popular 5k race after they removed a lobe of the lung.

SteVTEC

Like GM really needed a Pontiac G6 version of the Cadillac ATS? That right there is a prime example of what had been killing the entire company. Basically duplicate cars, with duplicated marketing needs, and duplicated products on the market, which ended up competing with each other and cannibalizing sales and profitability from each other. If you really like and want a Cadillac ATS, there ought to be only one choice. The ATS. Not the ATS, and then a Pontiac version of it, oh and then a Chevy version of it, oh and then a Buick version of it also.

mmarshall, I agree with you completely on Saturn. The original cars were brilliant, tested and performed very well, and were every bit as good as Toyotas and Hondas were in reliability. It's a damned shame what GM mis-management did to the company. I don't miss the company that was shut down, but do miss the spirit of the original cars and company.

I8ABMR

great post.

I remember when the Saturns came out they seemed pretty promising , especially as a young driver growing up in LA where everyone is a commuter. Too little , too late....

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

When you talk about it from a badge engineering standpoint agreed there is no excuse. However the problem that Pontiac and Saturn suffered for that matter was their markets they were after. GM is a huge company, and each automaker under it all offered the same thing rather than tailor each to be a niche. Pontiac should have been a low volume sports car maker plain and simple. RWD sedans in the G6 and G8, GTO coupe, a vert and roadster done. None of the hatchback, mini-van, crossover fluff. Saturn started as a youthful Scion like company that ended up being on the same level (and vehicles) as Chevrolet. Too much overlap. Saturn should have stayed a Scion competitor, and not offered the Outlook, Relay to name a few. Good affordable and decently equipped passenger cars is all they needed. Chevrolet is your everything brand, understood. Hummer could have succeeded if they focused on weight loss, and upped the Luxury quotient. They'd have fought well with Land Rover and Jeep. Back to the OP, and as you mention last, the spirit of the original cars and company were long lost. It's a shame they never got back to their roots which should have been a low volume sports car maker.

84Cressida

Bob Lutz is always pointing his wrinkly fingers at someone else.

I8ABMR

I think the entire American auto industry was pointing at someone else in 2009 ( except for Ford)

LexBob2

I like Bob Lutz but most former Detroit execs have VERY selective memories when they talk about their time at the top.

mmarshall

I really didn't see much, if any, overlap between Chevy and Saturn until long after 2000, when rebadged versions of Opels and Chevy minivans were forced on the Saturn Division by GM management. The original Saturns of the 1990s appealed to a different car-buying crowd (and a unique level of customer-service) than that of (at the time) mass-production, cookie-cutter Chevy.

mmarshall

BTW, Lutz does a write-in Car Question/Answer column for viewers now every month (which I read) in the back of the Road & Track issues...it features a classic picture of him in his late father's old Aston Martin (now his, of course) puffing on a big Cuban stogie (he still likes expensive cigars) .