We all want that!

It's simple offer a mix of Forced Inducted V6's & V8's that beat all the completion in the HP game and give it a mean design and you have a WIN.

But for some reasons Lexus doesn't choose that route these days.

I personally think Hybrids have been a curse for Lexus. Example is
the LS600H which was a performance hybrid that wanted to rival the performance S-class which we all know Lexus failed with.

 

Well said and true. If Lexus was concerned about low production models then the 600hl makes no sense. That car is harder to find for a customer than a LFA. Currently 30est LFA's are still for sale at dealerships. 600hl maybe hold a total of 5 in the USA. They don't sell because nobody wants to pay 30k extra for a 5.0 hybrid motor. Honestly the ones I've driven are nice cars but if I'm dropping 135k for a new car it will be a S63. I get more technology, better brakes, way faster and smiles. The 600hl will make you fall asleep while trying yo find a parking space that is big enough.

I feel it's the only option they have. Buyers should be able to criticize the manufactures. That's how we get them to change and get with the program. Lexus has always listened to the customer but somebody is shredding the performance feedback report. Handling, braking and steering is a good step but until the power is given Lexus will suffer the wrath of the enthusiast.

 

^ The 600hL is more than $30k extra right? Isn't it like an absurd $40k or $50k extra over the LS460?

I know my dad paid something like $70K OTD for a new '07 LS460 back in 2007 and the 600hLs were going for around $120k IIRC.

But yeah I agree the 600hL makes no sense at all. There are hordes of other cars that I'd rather get for $120k than the LS600hL.

 

I have to agree. The 600hl's price has definitely been a factor in its low sales.

 

At reliability, quality, relative price, sure. Certainly not performance and most certainly not pure numbers.

 

I fully believe the consumer has an impact, but I also believe that many are just sheep and have come to expect that what you see is what you get. Quite frankly the ES is not worth it's asking price at all based on the fact it's a Luxury marque vs the quality of materials used to assemble it. It is not a $44,000 car rather something worth roughly $35,000. It's not just Lexus, there are many other Marques that overcharge their vehicles. The problem is though people just roll over and buy these cars so the automaker carries on despite knowing that the quality is subpar. As long as the car runs though, consumer and automaker are happy. Now if people were smart or if we were able to organize ourselves and not buy these products until significant change was made that would speak towards consumer power. Alas it may be a pipe dream and the rich will continue getting richer while cutting more corners. Look at the quality of materials of a 2006 ES330 and 2009 GX470 vs a 2007/2013 ES350 and 2010 GX and its rather sickening to think your top dollar only buys rough or painted plastics

 

quality is not just skin deep... new ones are better built than before, despite whats the color of its plastic. I had 2007 GS and have 2009 IS and new ones are better built cars, despite the pics of interior. Just because it looks a bit nicer, doesnt mean that it is actually nicer.

Same goes for GX/Prado as well.

 

Well I said cabin materials. Absolutely the assembly is better than 2006-2010 L-Finesse models with all the ill fitting panel gaps and rattles. But the quality of materials pales in comparison to most pre 2006 models

 

Didn't the GS400 have the fastest stock straight line acceleration in its class, at least for a while?

 

rattles are due to materials too, not bad fitting - they didnt rattle when brand new, only when materials changed properties.

To me late 90's to mid 2000's were far the worst years for Toyota quality, it may have looked good but did not age well. Late 2000's they used harder materials but they are also wearing better.

 

Don't forget the role that rough roads and stiff suspensions/tires play, too. Many cars today have stiffer underpinnings than they used to....combine that with the way that roads in America and Britain are deteriorating, and more of those hard-impacts get transmitted into the cabin, gradually working fasteners loose over time and allowing squeaks/creaks and rattles to develop.

The new 2014 Avalon (which I reviewed this morning, and am now preparing the text and write-up for) shows some of the best and worst in material-quality I've seen in a Toyota product. Stay tuned for details,

 

It has got nothing to do with colour. What we're talking about is the appalling quality of materials used throughout the interior which are obviously signs of bean counting measures. In the spindle grill Lexus era.

There's nothing wrong with them if Lexus was not a expensive premium brand, but they are and that's unacceptable.

Not only interior but also exterior. The doors themselves feel so flimsy and do not have that nice thud as they used to. 3IS & 4GS both have very abnormally flimsy doors.
The sheet metal itself is also noticeably thinner and flimsier in both the 3IS & 4GS compared to their predecessors.

 

ES doors feel even worse to me. Anyone felt the ES glove box? It's so flimsy one could probably punch through it.

And yes the "Patented Lexus door thud" is gone. Only the LS and LX currently retain it. Everything else sounds weaker AND they do not shut properly anymore. You have to shut them harder than past.

If the bean counters job is to find short cuts, they are doing extremely well at their job

 

Never mind the ES. That thing is a dyed tin can in regards to the interior quality. Yes it's put together well. But the tangible materials used are of very poor quality, in the 5ES's case there is scratchy rough plastics that feel incredibly cheap and hollow.
When I sat in the 2014 ES I was surrounded by very low grade plastic, nothing looks or feels nice to the touch. They're just painted to look nice on brochures.

The doors are a worthy mention, the 5ES, 4GS & 3IS have doors that have an equivalent feel to my old N16 Nissan Pulsar (Sentra) light flimsy doors that clunk. The lightness of the doors still gets me, they just don't feel right. Even the N16 had soft touch materials across the door panel which the 5ES lacks.

The 4GS's interior is better than the 3IS & 5ES's but it's not all that. They've used many trickery and illusions that make it look better than it actually is. The previous 3GS it replaced had a far higher quality interior. Much richer leather, softer plastics, contrasting colors, more elegant use of wood grain, higher quality shifter+switchgear, blue LEDs everywhere and the door panels were of very high quality with LEDs in the door storage compartment which made for a very elegant atmosphere.
Another big area in which no one has pointed out is cabin noise. In the previous GEN Lexus's when you sit inside and shut the door you were in dead silence. With the newer spindle grilled Lexus that isn't the case.

Mercedes went through a similar situation in the late 90's till the mid 000's but they had no choice as they were in deep financial issues. Lexus/Toyota are at record profit levels and yet they're still cutting on quality.

Anyone who refuses to believe is a blind fanboy..

 

I don't have any feelings one way or another on the quality of the ES interior, but in the 2nd year of the new gen they are still selling 6k units per month (+38%) here in NA alone. If I'm the Lexus division, I wouldn't be in any big hurry to make changes/improvements. Maybe some incremental things along the way until a mid-cycle refresh. It would be inaccurate and too wide of a brush stroke to say that all of these buyers are blind fan boys.