How much power is the 3AE-FTE gonna have?
11-16-13, 08:30 AM
#31
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Cp1/yeh welcome to reality. I don't see people on the internetz crying and moaning he base a4 or a6 is fwd with a cvt with 210hp or the 320 has 180 hp.
I do see the same people *****ing about the IS 250 over and over so no matter what Lexus does they won't be pleased.
Honestly who cares, it's going to sell, it will be a good engine and that is that. Let the people hate and move goal posts on the internet.
I do see the same people *****ing about the IS 250 over and over so no matter what Lexus does they won't be pleased.
Honestly who cares, it's going to sell, it will be a good engine and that is that. Let the people hate and move goal posts on the internet.
And with that mentality there is no reason in having a mature conversation with you.
Those companies can do that because at the end of the day who is trying to be like them? And the answer is everyone. No one complains about those because at the end of the day no one HAS to buy those. As for the A6 2.0t you can get quattro and an 8-speed so what is there to complain about? As for the 320i it's cheaper so now the posers/lemons can get a round propeller on the hood, trunk and steering wheel of their car for less $$$.
11-16-13, 02:34 PM
#32
Interesting how much you defend Hyundai here 
.
The power figures on Hyundai's turbo engine are overhyped. Fact. That has a poor overall power curve.
The EPA fuel economy figures for Hyundai's turbo engine are highly misleading and overstated. Real-world fuel economy is much worse than the EPA figures. Fact
Hyundai's turbo engine has well-known long-term reliability and durability problems. Fact
The last time Toyota participated in the turbo game, they were world famous for the overall quality, reliability, and engineering that their turbo engines had.
One of the most famous Japanese engines in the world, and one of the most famous turbo engines in the world, the 2JZ-GTE is a Toyota design. Another highly famous turbo engine, the 3S-GTE, is also a Toyota design.
Those Toyota engines back in their day had extremely competitive power ratings, fuel economy ratings, and were class-leading in quality, reliability, and engineering.
It would be wise not to underestimate Toyota's future powertrains. You can be sure that Toyota's upcoming turbo engines will have extremely competitive, if not class-leading power ratings on paper, fuel economy, excellent powerbands and torque curves, and of course the reliability and durability that Toyota is known for.
Toyota's engines won't be some slapped-together poorly engineered Frankenstein engines borrowing parts from several automakers like the Hyundai turbo.
.The power figures on Hyundai's turbo engine are overhyped. Fact. That has a poor overall power curve.
The EPA fuel economy figures for Hyundai's turbo engine are highly misleading and overstated. Real-world fuel economy is much worse than the EPA figures. Fact
Hyundai's turbo engine has well-known long-term reliability and durability problems. Fact
The last time Toyota participated in the turbo game, they were world famous for the overall quality, reliability, and engineering that their turbo engines had.
One of the most famous Japanese engines in the world, and one of the most famous turbo engines in the world, the 2JZ-GTE is a Toyota design. Another highly famous turbo engine, the 3S-GTE, is also a Toyota design.
Those Toyota engines back in their day had extremely competitive power ratings, fuel economy ratings, and were class-leading in quality, reliability, and engineering.
It would be wise not to underestimate Toyota's future powertrains. You can be sure that Toyota's upcoming turbo engines will have extremely competitive, if not class-leading power ratings on paper, fuel economy, excellent powerbands and torque curves, and of course the reliability and durability that Toyota is known for.
Toyota's engines won't be some slapped-together poorly engineered Frankenstein engines borrowing parts from several automakers like the Hyundai turbo.
11-17-13, 10:28 PM
#33
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11-17-13, 10:50 PM
#34
Yes I totally agree with you. And that's how Toyota used to roll in the 90s
Class leading everything. They were leading the game. Today they're arguably not even trying to rejoin the game. I for one hope they get back to how they used to be.
The problem is that today Toyota and Lexus are not centralised. Back in 90s Toyota Japan were the commander kings. They controlled the design, engineering and marketing of their product.
Today Toyota is a bit too de-centralised. And this affects the end product.
Class leading everything. They were leading the game. Today they're arguably not even trying to rejoin the game. I for one hope they get back to how they used to be.
The problem is that today Toyota and Lexus are not centralised. Back in 90s Toyota Japan were the commander kings. They controlled the design, engineering and marketing of their product.
Today Toyota is a bit too de-centralised. And this affects the end product.
11-17-13, 11:35 PM
#35
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The reason why the German turbo engines are unreliable is because they don't use quality and durable materials and use far too much plastic parts for their engine.
One good thing about Toyota is that their engines are reliable as ****** due to the extensive use of durable & heavy duty material.
11-18-13, 06:55 AM
#37
The reason why the German turbo engines are unreliable is because they don't use quality and durable materials and use far too much plastic parts for their engine.
One good thing about Toyota is that their engines are reliable as ****** due to the extensive use of durable & heavy duty material.
One good thing about Toyota is that their engines are reliable as ****** due to the extensive use of durable & heavy duty material.
11-18-13, 03:51 PM
#38
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The 2JZ-GTE is reliable. And one of the best motors of all time. Stock internals could easily handle in excess of 800hp
The reason why the German turbo engines are unreliable is because they don't use quality and durable materials and use far too much plastic parts for their engine.
One good thing about Toyota is that their engines are reliable as ****** due to the extensive use of durable & heavy duty material.
The reason why the German turbo engines are unreliable is because they don't use quality and durable materials and use far too much plastic parts for their engine.
One good thing about Toyota is that their engines are reliable as ****** due to the extensive use of durable & heavy duty material.
I don't think even the 2JZ-GTE was immune to turbo related issues. I know they had primary (or was it secondary) turbo failures at some point along with wastegate issues maybe? But tough to say whether that was from modding or not. I think pretty much everybody that owned one of those modded it. Either way circumstances are far more challenging today. I really do hope this new Toyota turbo engine is bulletproof and doesn't experience any major issues as the German turbo engines have. Of course there are guaranteed to be numerous examples of these German engines in Toyota R&D labs for them to very carefully and precisely analyze and improve upon, so who is blazing the trail for Toyota here?
11-18-13, 04:17 PM
#39
Turbo will certainly make engine less reliable than non-turbo version. It is just a common sense.
Now Toyota being Toyota, they will probably be safe with the design so it will likely be more reliable than (most) other turbo's.
Now Toyota being Toyota, they will probably be safe with the design so it will likely be more reliable than (most) other turbo's.
11-19-13, 01:03 AM
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Yes I totally agree with you. And that's how Toyota used to roll in the 90s
Class leading everything. They were leading the game. Today they're arguably not even trying to rejoin the game. I for one hope they get back to how they used to be.
The problem is that today Toyota and Lexus are not centralised. Back in 90s Toyota Japan were the commander kings. They controlled the design, engineering and marketing of their product.
Today Toyota is a bit too de-centralised. And this affects the end product.
Class leading everything. They were leading the game. Today they're arguably not even trying to rejoin the game. I for one hope they get back to how they used to be.
The problem is that today Toyota and Lexus are not centralised. Back in 90s Toyota Japan were the commander kings. They controlled the design, engineering and marketing of their product.
Today Toyota is a bit too de-centralised. And this affects the end product.
Sorry, but you're dead wrong on that point. The 2GR for example is still class-leading in several aspects. There's more to an engine than just paper specs.
That's also partially incorrect. Toyota was very centralized even 10 years ago, yet that caused a number of problems for them. Toyota's problems mainly occured due to arrogance, and the "big company disease", which was a result of some Toyota executives picking up too many habits of Western business thinking and Western society.
With Akio Toyoda, the company is actually VERY centralized now, as he himself has a ton of responsibility, and direct say and control over products. He's very hands-on as the CEO. In some areas where centralization hurt Toyota, Akio Toyoda has decentralized those areas for the benefit of the company.
Funny you mention that. The TwinTurbo V6 and V8 news I posted a few weeks ago, well it was also said that these mills will have the best performance and efficiency vs the competition. Whatever ToYoCo is building they've probably done their homework. We'll likely see these mills in 2-3 years come GS major refresh/redesign, next gen LS and LF-LC
The aluminum-block 1UZ and 3UZ engines are also extremely reliable and durable, and the GR aluminum block is quite solid and reliable as well.
11-20-13, 04:58 AM
#41
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Not exactly a fair comparison, as the 2JZ-GTE never had to meet any of the modern fuel economy or emissions requirements that modern engines do. It was phased out precisely because it couldn't, along with the fact that sports cars were going out of style at the time. Those troublesome German turbocharged engines are all running direct injection and are significantly more efficient than the 2JZ was. The BMW N54/N55 currently get 30 mpg highway, vs barely low-20's for the 2JZ-GTE. 10.3:1 compression vs 8.5 or so, direct injection vs port, high pressure fuel pumps with special requirements vs nothing special. Advanced valve control systems, etc. The latest engines all have to run as lean as possible also for fuel economy, which makes for higher exhaust gas temperatures. The turbochargers in the BMW engines are said to be using "special" materials in the turbochargers in order to withstand the higher temperatures. So yeah, they haven't been bulletproof in terms of reliability, but it's a far different game these days, and it's hardly a matter of "not using quality materials" or anything like that.
I don't think even the 2JZ-GTE was immune to turbo related issues. I know they had primary (or was it secondary) turbo failures at some point along with wastegate issues maybe? But tough to say whether that was from modding or not. I think pretty much everybody that owned one of those modded it. Either way circumstances are far more challenging today. I really do hope this new Toyota turbo engine is bulletproof and doesn't experience any major issues as the German turbo engines have. Of course there are guaranteed to be numerous examples of these German engines in Toyota R&D labs for them to very carefully and precisely analyze and improve upon, so who is blazing the trail for Toyota here?
I don't think even the 2JZ-GTE was immune to turbo related issues. I know they had primary (or was it secondary) turbo failures at some point along with wastegate issues maybe? But tough to say whether that was from modding or not. I think pretty much everybody that owned one of those modded it. Either way circumstances are far more challenging today. I really do hope this new Toyota turbo engine is bulletproof and doesn't experience any major issues as the German turbo engines have. Of course there are guaranteed to be numerous examples of these German engines in Toyota R&D labs for them to very carefully and precisely analyze and improve upon, so who is blazing the trail for Toyota here?
Picture is a thousand words
Typical VW engine
Typical Toyota/Lexus engine
It's not hard to see that the Toyota motor is just beefier, stronger and simply built to a better criteria to say the least..
Last edited by yowps3; 11-20-13 at 05:01 AM.
11-21-13, 03:38 AM
#42
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Those VAG 1.8 and 2.0L turbo engines are iron block, the same thing numerous people here were just praising the JZ for.
The 2GR-FE V-6 in my RAV4 and lots of other Toyota models had a cheap, stupid, not properly de-rated rubber VVT-i oil hose which burst, and took out many 2GR engines to the point that it showed up as black dots in Consumer Reports. They replaced it with a still cheap but now hopefully properly de-rated better crappy rubber oil hose, whereas the Lexus variants tended to get a proper metal braided one. Lots of people had been doing retrofits.
I'm not sure how you can say without doing a complete teardown analysis and weighing every single component that one engine is built stronger or better than another. I certainly trust Toyota to build a more reliable turbocharged engine than anybody else and especially the Germans, but I seriously doubt a 1st generation effort is going to be immune from all problems.
The 2GR-FE V-6 in my RAV4 and lots of other Toyota models had a cheap, stupid, not properly de-rated rubber VVT-i oil hose which burst, and took out many 2GR engines to the point that it showed up as black dots in Consumer Reports. They replaced it with a still cheap but now hopefully properly de-rated better crappy rubber oil hose, whereas the Lexus variants tended to get a proper metal braided one. Lots of people had been doing retrofits.
I'm not sure how you can say without doing a complete teardown analysis and weighing every single component that one engine is built stronger or better than another. I certainly trust Toyota to build a more reliable turbocharged engine than anybody else and especially the Germans, but I seriously doubt a 1st generation effort is going to be immune from all problems.
11-21-13, 05:11 AM
#43
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Those VAG 1.8 and 2.0L turbo engines are iron block, the same thing numerous people here were just praising the JZ for.
The 2GR-FE V-6 in my RAV4 and lots of other Toyota models had a cheap, stupid, not properly de-rated rubber VVT-i oil hose which burst, and took out many 2GR engines to the point that it showed up as black dots in Consumer Reports. They replaced it with a still cheap but now hopefully properly de-rated better crappy rubber oil hose, whereas the Lexus variants tended to get a proper metal braided one. Lots of people had been doing retrofits.
I'm not sure how you can say without doing a complete teardown analysis and weighing every single component that one engine is built stronger or better than another. I certainly trust Toyota to build a more reliable turbocharged engine than anybody else and especially the Germans, but I seriously doubt a 1st generation effort is going to be immune from all problems.
The 2GR-FE V-6 in my RAV4 and lots of other Toyota models had a cheap, stupid, not properly de-rated rubber VVT-i oil hose which burst, and took out many 2GR engines to the point that it showed up as black dots in Consumer Reports. They replaced it with a still cheap but now hopefully properly de-rated better crappy rubber oil hose, whereas the Lexus variants tended to get a proper metal braided one. Lots of people had been doing retrofits.
I'm not sure how you can say without doing a complete teardown analysis and weighing every single component that one engine is built stronger or better than another. I certainly trust Toyota to build a more reliable turbocharged engine than anybody else and especially the Germans, but I seriously doubt a 1st generation effort is going to be immune from all problems.
But regarding the 2GR-FE it's now over 8yrs old being virtually unchanged and yet it's still a highly acclaimed power plant . It takes the Camry V6 to 60mph in 5.8 seconds and it's the smoothest engine I've ever encountered. Velvety smooth operation. And it's also good on gas.
Last edited by yowps3; 11-21-13 at 05:18 AM.
11-21-13, 12:41 PM
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11-21-13, 11:00 PM
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It seems Hyundai is getting dinged now for their turbo power plant. The Supra and MR2 were the only turbo plants worth a damn, Mitsubishi 3000GTs crap, Eclipse ok, RX7 oh my god are you kidding me crap... I've never wanted a Merican' V8, but after the souless turbo plants I've been wrenching on I think its time for some torque.