Please explain?

 

I've explained it before, no need to go in circles.

Let me just put it very simply. Just like an RWD or FWD car becomes one wheel drive once slippage occurs, the same exact thing can happed with AWD. It can become one wheel drive, and one front wheel drive at that. This of course is not likely to happen during daily driving, this is more likely to happen when driving at the limit - and this is why many enthusiasts and people that take their cars to track frown at AWD.

Of course most modern cars have systems setup to counter this effect, such as LSD, e-LSD, stability systems, etc - but in passenger cars those systems are tuned to prevent loss of traction, and assist in regaining control once traction is lost, and not to necessarily allow you to take a corner at the limit at maximum speed. Most of those systems won't even let you take the car anywhere near the limit.

Of course you have race built cars like the Nissan GTR with a very advanced torque vectoring AWD system that is tuned precisely to allow you to take corners as fast as physics allow - but in the case of your average Lexus sedan or a BMW sedan, the AWD option only ruins the car. Just look at any AWD GS or 3 series - they look all out of whack with ridiculous lift and tire gap, they are heavier, slower, and somewhat inhibi negative qualities of FWD such as torque steer and understeer.

 

It's been pointed out by a number of people to you, including myself, that no modern full-time AWD system have this problem. Do you want to discuss how bad each system can get or how good each system can get? Fact of the matter is AWD system can be pushed far beyond any RWD system limit when it comes to traction - do you have anything to say about this?

As to whether AWD system ruins cars or not is a matter of personal opinion and to each their own.

 

That is completely incorrect. The only AWD system that can be pushed beyond RWD is an advanced torque vectoring system with front to rear and side to side vectoring. Systems like this are still pretty rare, and many of them still do not have full vectoring. And even then you have to negate the added weight and higher center of gravity.

There's a very good reason why Audis with all their AWD gimmickry consistently get their *** handed to them by RWD BMWs on track. There's a good reason why cars like M5, M3, IS-F do not come with AWD. It is very likely that they will adopt AWD systems in the near future, but it's going to be a very advanced torque vectoring system.

Once again, traditional AWD systems are good for bad weather driving, rally track type driving, even slight offroading - but they utterly suck on dry pavement. And in case of Lexus sedans, the AWD system is most likely to be the most basic one, with open diffs assisted by e-LSD, and its only useful for getting you going in snowy conditions, but not well suited for spirited driving. This is true not just for Lexus, but for many other manufacturers as well.

 

Who cares? The point is AWD can be used to push the limits when RWD has no further room for improvement. Again, taking lame AWD implementations and pointing their weaknesses does not change the fact that AWD system can be made to beat any RWD when it comes to traction - on any surface. What's so hard about this? Do you see me taking lame RWD implementations and pointing out to you how much they suck? No, because I'm not interested in discussing how much each system can be made to suck (but apparently you are), but rather how the best systems out there compare.

 

Have you even looked at the thread title? The system in Lexus sedans is not an advanced system. When they introduce a torque vectoring system, maybe I'll care, until then I much rather opt for RWD versions of their sedans.

Here's a cool video demonstrating shortcomings of most AWD systems.

 

Have you? Do you see the word sedans in the title? I don't. You make it about sedans simply because it proves your point that AWD implementation in Lexus sedans is lame which I never even argued about.

 

My Rav4 is my first car with AWD and I love it. It's rained a lot in ATL this year, and with a 70 highway mile daily commute, it's been really, really nice.

 

Read the ops post.

 

So now it's not about the title but the ops post lol? Plenty of people posted about SUVs here and I don't see anybody (including you) telling them this thread is about Lexus sedans only. You wish.

 

Whatever, I think you're arguing for arguments sake. Lexus SUVs with the exception of RX were always AWD, and without a doubt any AWD should be AWD, otherwise it's almost pointless. I almost much prefer AWD to FWD, but when it comes to sport sedans, I'll take RWD any time - and many posters here feel the same way.

 

I will give you the benefit of the doubt but GX/LX are not AWD, they are full-time 4WD. Since you're trying to argue about the subject you should know that it's not the same as AWD.

 

OK, guys, time for a crash course in four-wheel 101.

AWD, by definition, is full-time. The system operates continuously, but apportions torque front/rear in the ratio that the engineers have programmed the center differential. That differs from On-Demand 4WD, which also has a center differential, but where the system drives only the main two driving wheels until extra traction is called for, then also routes power to the other two wheels.. Conventional 4WD (an old system used for decades) lacks a center differential, usually has a manually operated transfer-case, and, when engaged, drives all of the wheels at exactly the same speed, so the system is useful only off-road or on slippery paved surfaces...it is unsuitable for cornering on dry pavement, and can cause tire and driveline damage if done so.

Sometimes AWD or on-Demand 4WD have a feature that, upon driver control, electronically locks one or more of differentials for tough going.. That more or less imitates a conventional off-road 4WD system, and should only be used off-road on on slippery surfaces.

 

yep it's coming....altho it doesn't mention TV...http://www.worldcarfans.com/11310036...drive---report

 

Says who? This is completely wrong. Full-time is one of the ways an AWD system can be implemented. On-demand AWD system is not full-time but it's sill AWD. Where did you get your info from?

Again, there is a good link I've posted which ranks different AWD/4WD system for on-road and off-road traction: https://sites.google.com/site/awdand4wd/