View Poll Results: What name should Toyota use for the production Toyota FT-1?
Supra gets my vote!
129
84.31%
I don't know, but its time for a new name.
24
15.69%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll
Toyota Supra / FT-1
#1156
Look, this is disappointing but nothing we can do.
Regarding the low power version, just look to the big luxury sedans, where you can get the low power version. The idea is to provide the look and feel of a certain "level" of vehicle and to avoid some heavy taxes/other costs that come with more power.
The 86 is an econo crap box that has lovely driving characteristics. Some folks with prefer a nicer car and are ok with the lack of thrust (example being the IS 250 from a decade ago).
Regarding the low power version, just look to the big luxury sedans, where you can get the low power version. The idea is to provide the look and feel of a certain "level" of vehicle and to avoid some heavy taxes/other costs that come with more power.
The 86 is an econo crap box that has lovely driving characteristics. Some folks with prefer a nicer car and are ok with the lack of thrust (example being the IS 250 from a decade ago).
#1157
live.love.laugh.lexus
iTrader: (42)
Given that, it may still hold true that the new Supra will indeed retail under the Gazoo Racing brand as the article states-Gazoo Racing for the Euro market as we don't see GR in the US market.I'm curious how all this is going to work. Will they share the same dealership lot as they did when they had Scion? For example, here's the Toyota lot and that lot over there is the Gazoo Racing lot. Or for the US market, here's the toyota lot and that parking space is the TRD lot. It seems they will have to squeeze in the Supra in and I dont think ALL dealerships will be able to sell nor service the new Supra. The dealership may need to invest in the servicing, training, and tooling in order to sell them. who knows...
#1158
Pole Position
This makes no sense to me. Why would they offer a Euro-only 'Supra' with around 200hp when they have the GT86 with that power? Either these posts about the Supra are misleading or guessing. I've seen lots of different pictures with Toyota test drivers in the car and the BMW is a rag top. Maybe they share the same chassis and stuff but that doesn't mean it's going to be a BMW with a Toyota badge. We'll see.
#1159
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Toyota bean counters : 1
car enthusiasts : 0
car enthusiasts : 0
#1160
Pole Position
Im not sure this can be blamed on the bean counters. It seems to be the Japanese car business culture. Europeans will slowly cultivate even low volume models. Japan prioritizes efficiency and volume. The ES and possibly the RX will get a 3rd gen before the LX and GX gets a full overhaul, if at all. The LS took 9 yrs and the GS might take 10 yrs.
#1162
Lexus Fanatic
This new "Supra" is going to be a much more downmarket car compared to the old Supra with BMW 4 and 6 cylinders and a roadster chassis and I don't see any indication from spy photo's it is going to look anywhere near as nice. If I had the choice between a lower mileage older Supra turbo or this new Supra from what I am seeing and reading I would take the older one any day.
Actually, why couldn't they have just taken the last Supra, did some modification to make it compliant with all regulation, put some modern technology in it to only enhance it, give it over 450hp, some subtle exterior design improvements, and then release it. I think that is what most people would have preferred considering how loved the Supra is now and I doubt it would have cost them that much as they already have all the blue prints and design specs.
#1163
Lexus Fanatic
Im not sure this can be blamed on the bean counters. It seems to be the Japanese car business culture. Europeans will slowly cultivate even low volume models. Japan prioritizes efficiency and volume. The ES and possibly the RX will get a 3rd gen before the LX and GX gets a full overhaul, if at all. The LS took 9 yrs and the GS might take 10 yrs.
American and German companies, especially German ones generally do keep offering generations of more performance oriented or higher end vehicles and refine them with each generation, they often do several version too unless they are a total flop.
#1164
Lexus Test Driver
The NSX is very different though, it is definitely a higher performing more significant car in every way over the old NSX and it does not share anything with another company, yes it got heavier but reviews say it does not feel heavier when you drive it. As much as I am a fan of the old NSX, I would take a new one over it in a heart beat, especially after seeing a few, they are gorgeous cars.
This new "Supra" is going to be a much more downmarket car compared to the old Supra with BMW 4 and 6 cylinders and a roadster chassis and I don't see any indication from spy photo's it is going to look anywhere near as nice. If I had the choice between a lower mileage older Supra turbo or this new Supra from what I am seeing and reading I would take the older one any day.
Actually, why couldn't they have just taken the last Supra, did some modification to make it compliant with all regulation, put some modern technology in it to only enhance it, give it over 450hp, some subtle exterior design improvements, and then release it. I think that is what most people would have preferred considering how loved the Supra is now and I doubt it would have cost them that much as they already have all the blue prints and design specs.
This new "Supra" is going to be a much more downmarket car compared to the old Supra with BMW 4 and 6 cylinders and a roadster chassis and I don't see any indication from spy photo's it is going to look anywhere near as nice. If I had the choice between a lower mileage older Supra turbo or this new Supra from what I am seeing and reading I would take the older one any day.
Actually, why couldn't they have just taken the last Supra, did some modification to make it compliant with all regulation, put some modern technology in it to only enhance it, give it over 450hp, some subtle exterior design improvements, and then release it. I think that is what most people would have preferred considering how loved the Supra is now and I doubt it would have cost them that much as they already have all the blue prints and design specs.
Thats why cars like Mustang, 911, Wrangler etc are so successful - they stay true to what their die hard base wants.
NSX and Supra not offering a manual makes them lose credibility......thats like a Mustang without a V8.
NSX is overpriced and has hybrid tech that most car enthusiasts and eatablished NSX owners care little about.
Supra just need to deliver on some basics - Turbo 6cyl that was over 450hp, manual, RWD and priced around $50-60k.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 02-11-18 at 10:26 AM.
#1165
Lexus Fanatic
The point I was making was not about performance but that both cars missed on catering to the established enthusiast following that each car has.
Thats why cars like Mustang, 911, Wrangler etc are so successful - they stay true to what their die hard base wants.
NSX and Supra not offering a manual makes them lose credibility......thats like a Mustang without a V8.
NSX is overpriced and has hybrid tech that most car enthusiasts and eatablished NSX owners care little about.
Supra just need to deliver on some basics - Turbo 6cyl that was over 450hp, manual, RWD and priced around $50-60k.
The new Supra has gone from a Corvette/GTR/911 competitor to more of a smaller, lower end Z5, 370Z, 4/6 cylinder Mustang/Camaro competitor. It does not even look like it would be able to compete well against 8 cylinder Mustangs or Camaro's in top form from what we are reading. Whether it has a manual or not it is not going to be close to what the last legendary Supra tt was back in the 90's especially with just pretty standard BMW 4 or 6 cylinders powering it, it is going to be a lower end car. It may be more affordable then the last Supra but that is because it will be a lower end car, I think many Supra enthusiasts would not mind if price is a little high(not anywhere near a GTR though) as long as the looks, power, and performance is there.
#1166
If I wanted a damn BMW, I'd just go and buy one. A Toyota with a BMW engine and chassis, that's total bull**** IMO, Toyota can build world beating cars when they put their damn mind to it, aka Lexus LFA, 1993 Toyota Supra, 1990 Lexus LS, 1993 Camry, 1995 Tacoma, any generation Land Cruiser, most generations Corolla, 1986 MR2, 1990 MR2, all of those are what I call world beating Toyotas.
#1167
live.love.laugh.lexus
iTrader: (42)
autoblog just posted about it: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/12/...bodied-bmw-z4/
when i think more about it, i'm also coming to a conclusion (as some of may have said before) it seems like toyota is doing it to attract new car buyers, maybe even sway some potential BMW buyers/owners, while, at the same time, alienating the older generation supra fans, owners, former owners and those who always wanted a supra. much like Lexus is doing, mentioned here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...llennials.html
or maybe,this is much ado about nothing, and there is that possibility that the supra will be a badass, well balanced car.
when i think more about it, i'm also coming to a conclusion (as some of may have said before) it seems like toyota is doing it to attract new car buyers, maybe even sway some potential BMW buyers/owners, while, at the same time, alienating the older generation supra fans, owners, former owners and those who always wanted a supra. much like Lexus is doing, mentioned here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...llennials.html
or maybe,this is much ado about nothing, and there is that possibility that the supra will be a badass, well balanced car.
#1169
Lexus Champion
I feel the pain for people who are invested in the Supra name. I love the Supras too. But sometimes you have to realize that Godzilla is not coming back for a rerun and understand what a different car market this is in the 21st century. I had a chance to ride in the original Celica from 82, and then subsequently drove the 84 Supra with the manual. Even drove an original Celica Supra circa 1978. Never got a chance on the 88-92 Supra turbos which were GT style. But those were the cars that sold. MKIV didn't sell well so you see what happens.
Look at the numbers here: I recall that MKIV and how astonishing it was, but I remember its pricing was ridiculous. It priced itself out of the market and yep, it did not sell well. Do folks realize that the MKIV barely nudged itself past 11K total for most of its run (93-98)? Those are not good economics for a big car company like Toyota.
Today these are nostalgia memories about a car that can be modded to a thousand horsepower, but that's not realistic for the average sporty car buyer. I don't agree with what Toyota's done here, but you can see what they're thinking. This will be a "Celipra" and it will be a lightweight sporty dental assistant's car with movie car styling in some markets and safe tame driving characteristics. In other places you can get the Zs 335hp engine. Manuals are fun, but not quick anymore, so that's a moot point.
Yes, it's going to end up being a troublesome Bimmer under the skin but it looks like Toyota's ready to risk it. If they kept the curb weight at 3500lbs or less that inline six will put up plenty of grunt for the average buyer. You can buy the badge, or you buy the edgy styling.
Look at the numbers here: I recall that MKIV and how astonishing it was, but I remember its pricing was ridiculous. It priced itself out of the market and yep, it did not sell well. Do folks realize that the MKIV barely nudged itself past 11K total for most of its run (93-98)? Those are not good economics for a big car company like Toyota.
Today these are nostalgia memories about a car that can be modded to a thousand horsepower, but that's not realistic for the average sporty car buyer. I don't agree with what Toyota's done here, but you can see what they're thinking. This will be a "Celipra" and it will be a lightweight sporty dental assistant's car with movie car styling in some markets and safe tame driving characteristics. In other places you can get the Zs 335hp engine. Manuals are fun, but not quick anymore, so that's a moot point.
Yes, it's going to end up being a troublesome Bimmer under the skin but it looks like Toyota's ready to risk it. If they kept the curb weight at 3500lbs or less that inline six will put up plenty of grunt for the average buyer. You can buy the badge, or you buy the edgy styling.
#1170
Lexus Test Driver
After years of waiting, here is the official teaser from Toyota USA:
https://twitter.com/Toyota/status/96...023168/photo/1
https://twitter.com/Toyota/status/96...023168/photo/1
I still can't believe its all BMW parts and no manual in a SUPRA!?!
WTF is Akio thinking?