S2000toIS350

Look, this is disappointing but nothing we can do.

Regarding the low power version, just look to the big luxury sedans, where you can get the low power version. The idea is to provide the look and feel of a certain "level" of vehicle and to avoid some heavy taxes/other costs that come with more power.

The 86 is an econo crap box that has lovely driving characteristics. Some folks with prefer a nicer car and are ok with the lack of thrust (example being the IS 250 from a decade ago).

jadu

iTrader: (42)

The info lines up with the autoblog article: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/01/13/...va-motor-show/

Given that, it may still hold true that the new Supra will indeed retail under the Gazoo Racing brand as the article states-Gazoo Racing for the Euro market as we don't see GR in the US market.I'm curious how all this is going to work. Will they share the same dealership lot as they did when they had Scion? For example, here's the Toyota lot and that lot over there is the Gazoo Racing lot. Or for the US market, here's the toyota lot and that parking space is the TRD lot. It seems they will have to squeeze in the Supra in and I dont think ALL dealerships will be able to sell nor service the new Supra. The dealership may need to invest in the servicing, training, and tooling in order to sell them. who knows...

situman

This being based on a heavy convertible platform...Toyota's version of the RC with the weak 200hp engine.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

situman

Im not sure this can be blamed on the bean counters. It seems to be the Japanese car business culture. Europeans will slowly cultivate even low volume models. Japan prioritizes efficiency and volume. The ES and possibly the RX will get a 3rd gen before the LX and GX gets a full overhaul, if at all. The LS took 9 yrs and the GS might take 10 yrs.

RNM GS3

UDel

The NSX is very different though, it is definitely a higher performing more significant car in every way over the old NSX and it does not share anything with another company, yes it got heavier but reviews say it does not feel heavier when you drive it. As much as I am a fan of the old NSX, I would take a new one over it in a heart beat, especially after seeing a few, they are gorgeous cars.

This new "Supra" is going to be a much more downmarket car compared to the old Supra with BMW 4 and 6 cylinders and a roadster chassis and I don't see any indication from spy photo's it is going to look anywhere near as nice. If I had the choice between a lower mileage older Supra turbo or this new Supra from what I am seeing and reading I would take the older one any day.

Actually, why couldn't they have just taken the last Supra, did some modification to make it compliant with all regulation, put some modern technology in it to only enhance it, give it over 450hp, some subtle exterior design improvements, and then release it. I think that is what most people would have preferred considering how loved the Supra is now and I doubt it would have cost them that much as they already have all the blue prints and design specs.

UDel

I have to agree, the Japanese don't seem to or rarely stick to anything high performance or luxurious, especially the more expensive vehicles that don't sell well. Look at all the cars all the Japanese companies have killed that are now cult classics and very few seem to be coming back, 3000GT, Eclipse, FTO, RX-7, Cosmo, Millenia, 929, MX-6, Supra, Celica All Trac, Cressida, MR-2, Prelude, CRX, S2000, Accord coupe now, Legend coupe, CL, Integra/RSX, 240SX, 300ZX, possibly 370Z, Q45, SVX, etc. Basically most performance/upper end cars get killed if they are not big sellers or they have no desire to spend the money for new versions.

American and German companies, especially German ones generally do keep offering generations of more performance oriented or higher end vehicles and refine them with each generation, they often do several version too unless they are a total flop.

RNM GS3

UDel

I think it is more then manuals though, manuals these days are slower, shift slower, and less fuel efficient then a modern automatic and DSG, back then those cars with manuals were significantly faster, the auto NSX even had less power. Manuals are very rare these days, just about every super car maker has ditched them for DSG's so I don't think the NSX or even Supra not having them is going to turn too many off. The price is probably the biggest thing holding the NSX back, it is very expensive but not necessarily overpriced considering what its competitors cost and the performance/technology it offers. I would say most NSX owners now were not original buyers, they got it used for 25-60K so I doubt many can afford a 155K+ super car though many previous owners have bought it or are considering it and they do really like it. I don't think many were asking for the heavy hybrid components but I doubt many would care that much if the car ended up being affordable to them as it is adding power and performance. If they dropped the hybrid technology and had a light weight version with a manual but it was still over 140K I doubt too many current NSX would suddenly buy it or be able to buy it though it likely would get some added sales and they should do it. The NSX still has most of the virtues the old one had, it is mid engine, it is really good looking, uses a lot of technology, is reliable, is a comfortable every day super car, does not cost a fortune to own or maintain, it still competes in the same basic segment, and performs very well while undercutting the price of its competitors.

The new Supra has gone from a Corvette/GTR/911 competitor to more of a smaller, lower end Z5, 370Z, 4/6 cylinder Mustang/Camaro competitor. It does not even look like it would be able to compete well against 8 cylinder Mustangs or Camaro's in top form from what we are reading. Whether it has a manual or not it is not going to be close to what the last legendary Supra tt was back in the 90's especially with just pretty standard BMW 4 or 6 cylinders powering it, it is going to be a lower end car. It may be more affordable then the last Supra but that is because it will be a lower end car, I think many Supra enthusiasts would not mind if price is a little high(not anywhere near a GTR though) as long as the looks, power, and performance is there.

Aron9000

If I wanted a damn BMW, I'd just go and buy one. A Toyota with a BMW engine and chassis, that's total bull**** IMO, Toyota can build world beating cars when they put their damn mind to it, aka Lexus LFA, 1993 Toyota Supra, 1990 Lexus LS, 1993 Camry, 1995 Tacoma, any generation Land Cruiser, most generations Corolla, 1986 MR2, 1990 MR2, all of those are what I call world beating Toyotas.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

autoblog just posted about it: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/12/...bodied-bmw-z4/

when i think more about it, i'm also coming to a conclusion (as some of may have said before) it seems like toyota is doing it to attract new car buyers, maybe even sway some potential BMW buyers/owners, while, at the same time, alienating the older generation supra fans, owners, former owners and those who always wanted a supra. much like Lexus is doing, mentioned here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...llennials.html
or maybe,this is much ado about nothing, and there is that possibility that the supra will be a badass, well balanced car.

redspencer

iTrader: (1)

After years of waiting, here is the official teaser from Toyota USA:

MattyG

I feel the pain for people who are invested in the Supra name. I love the Supras too. But sometimes you have to realize that Godzilla is not coming back for a rerun and understand what a different car market this is in the 21st century. I had a chance to ride in the original Celica from 82, and then subsequently drove the 84 Supra with the manual. Even drove an original Celica Supra circa 1978. Never got a chance on the 88-92 Supra turbos which were GT style. But those were the cars that sold. MKIV didn't sell well so you see what happens.

Look at the numbers here: I recall that MKIV and how astonishing it was, but I remember its pricing was ridiculous. It priced itself out of the market and yep, it did not sell well. Do folks realize that the MKIV barely nudged itself past 11K total for most of its run (93-98)? Those are not good economics for a big car company like Toyota.

Today these are nostalgia memories about a car that can be modded to a thousand horsepower, but that's not realistic for the average sporty car buyer. I don't agree with what Toyota's done here, but you can see what they're thinking. This will be a "Celipra" and it will be a lightweight sporty dental assistant's car with movie car styling in some markets and safe tame driving characteristics. In other places you can get the Zs 335hp engine. Manuals are fun, but not quick anymore, so that's a moot point.

Yes, it's going to end up being a troublesome Bimmer under the skin but it looks like Toyota's ready to risk it. If they kept the curb weight at 3500lbs or less that inline six will put up plenty of grunt for the average buyer. You can buy the badge, or you buy the edgy styling.

RNM GS3