LexFather

That's your opinion, a non Lexus owner who has no intention of buying a new Lexus (which is clearly fine, tastes change, things change, if you don't want a Lexus thats perfectly FINE). The stats clearly show sales are at record highs worldwide,
Reviews have been good to outstanding and quality is still best in the world.

If you don't like it fine. Stop repeating the same things about the old Lexus since OBVIOUSLY some of us here like/love the new direction. That is an issue. Current Lexus owners who proudly like what is going on don't need to see constantly how the new designs are not what you don't like or you don't like that they are no longer plush vehicles.

Some people need to move on and accept this is the new way and it makes no sense reminiscing about a 15" wheel, 225/65/15 fat sidewall tire 250hp v-8 LS.

Quite frankly THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE ASKED FOR. They didn't ask for more comfort and more cushy. For over a DECADE people here asked for a sportier Lexus, the BACKBONE here are people that MODIFY their cars and CONTINUE to do so. Lexus LISTENED. We got L-tuned, we got F-sport parts, we got the IS F, LFA and now full F-sport packages and a RC F and other F models to come.

If anything people should applaud that they did listen and adjusted to market demands, even if it is slower than what the Germans are doing. Look at how some of the "competition" doesn't seem to listen at all and they are falling behind fast.

Again if you want a cushy Leuxs, get a standard car, they still are cushy while driving miles better than an older model. Its obvious Lexus big CORE still buys these models since they are the majority of cars sold.

mmarshall

LOL. I owned an IS300 for five years (and I sometimes wish I had gotten the superb 4Gen ES300). If Lexus builds another product that appeals to me (like the Verano did), I'll buy one.

Not only that, but several CL moderators and other staff members also don't currently own a Lexus product.


Like it (or love it) all you want. No one's stopping you....or your wallet. You can post your opinions....We'll post ours.

And, if a number of CL members didn't think that Lexus wasn't currently going in the right direction, then this entire thread (and many of the responses to it) wouldn't be here in the first place.

The ride comfort from those 15" tires (along with refinement and library-quietness) was one of the main things that made the LS400 the big success it was. It was the car that single-handedly knocked Mercedes off of its pedestal 20 years ago. That's a fact.

SW17LS

Any comparison between the GLK and the GL, or to say that one prefers one over the other is meaningless since the vehicles are completely different. Totally different sizes, the GL is twice as expensive...

Different vehicles . The Q5 is sportier and more fun to drive, but the Jeep is the better people hauler and highway vehicle, the Jeep is more rugged feeling which appealed to me.

SW17LS

As for the15inch wheels, back in 1990 that was typical, today buyers want larger diameter wheels.

If buyers still wanted 15 inch wheels then vehicles would be available with them. They don't.

mmarshall

It's true that they are different vehicles, on different platforms, but I don't believe that makes what i said meaningless. Despite the obvious difference in size and price, I thought the GLK had better sheet metal, overall build quality/solidness, and, overall, was more pleasant to drive. The GL, to me, felt basically like a Didge Durango with three-pointed star on it.

Of course, that was (admittedly) the last GL I drove, a few years ago. There have probably been some improvements to the design since then.

Both the existing Grand Cherokee and the all new-2014 Cherokee are, IMO, both quite impressive. Gone are the poorly-built Jeeps of years ago....the Government/Fiat takeover made all the difference in the world. Today's Jeeps (even the relatively crude Wrangler) can't be compared to those of the past.

LexFather

I had an IS 300 as well and as I stated, if Lexus doesn't appeal to you now or all the moderators you mentioned fine. To us owners, who actually are the backbone of the site, who modify their cars, who go to events etc we are happy with the direction even with opportunities to do better. We chat with Lexus, we give them feedback as we want to stay with the brand. While diversity is encouraged make no mistake why the majority of people come here. Lexus.

It makes no sense to rehash the same anti-new Leuxs comments over and over on a Lexus forum with plenty of happy Lexus owners that keep the forum going. If people stop buying the new cars, this place dies even faster and Lexus collapses.

Right AT THE TIME. Today if a new flagship comes out with 15 or 16" tires it would be laughed into failure. People today want a tighter ride, they want a sportier ride, they want bigger wheels and tires. The MARKET CHANGED. Thus the LS comes with up to 19" wheels and tires yet amazingly for he most part keeps its supple ride.

This is 2014, not 1994. Everyone went after BMW and aimed for how BMWs drive as that was hip and BMW was seen as the best drive of luxury brands. Now Benz, Audi, Lexus, Caddy etc etc all offer better driving cars.

Not sure what the problem is with that at all. A 2014 RX drives 100 times better than a 1999 RX and so on and so on.

Could things change? Sure. Maybe in 2034 people want cushy rides again and maybe public opinion will hate sporty cars.

mmarshall

Yes and no. Traditional buyers still do, but their voices have been increasingly drowned out by those who are sport-oriented and the growing power of the auto-press, which, in general, prefers handling over ride comfort. Twenty hears ago, the auto press didn't have the huge influence it does today....much of that came with the rise of the Internet and the 24/7 social-news cycle. An additional factor is that engineers are generally using larger brake rotors today, which necessitates somewhat larger slotted-wheel-diameters (but not necessarily lower-profile tires with them) to insure adequate brake-cooling.

The pendulum, though, may (?) be getting ready to start swinging the other way. Even some family sedans and (otherwise) non-sporting vehicles, today, ride so firm that the auto press is starting to complain about it. They have become victims of heir own success.

LexFather

To me the press was just as influential if not more influential then since that was ALL people had as a reference compared to today where there are forums and people can provide their feedback for anyone to see. The press sold much more magazines that today, people now go online and don't even need to read a magazine or visit their website.

Magazines have always preferred sportier cars, that is why the mags sell. If they reviewed plush cars every month no one would buy it, kids don't want that.

What I will agree with you is that it seemed in the past magazines at least were honest and smart enough to give wins and points to cars not just based on sport but based on their purpose. That is one reason why the LS 400 did so well in reviews, they took it for being a luxury vehicle without scolding it for not being sporty. Today it seems every review no matter if the car is a damn Kia Rondo to a X1 to a Bentley all they seem to care about is sport which isn't fair to a lot of vehicles. Its actually refreshing to see an honest review where a car is held to its goals and not theirs. It makes no sense to slam a ES 350 for not being sporty but it does make sense to slam an IS if it was not.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Oh I know, was adding to what you said:

Hence the more capable Jeep which has the space and all the options features you needed.

Gone is the traditional buyer, making room for Contemporary and Progressive buyers. Lexus knows this and uses these terms in Lexus College

LexFather

Hoovey has a sidenote I have looked into the SQ5 (wife seems to miss riding high) and on paper its wonderful. So far no luck even getting close to one here. It seems "Special" and as much as I love Lexus, I can't understand how the F-sport RX doesn't even get dual VVTi for at least the 306hp...

One of the many opportunities we have all spoken about..

mmarshall

It's more than just a matter of plush-vs. sporty. Many of the fan-letters in the automotive magazines (especially at Road & Track, more so than the others) complain that the magazines spend too much time on six-figure (or near-six-figure) exotics and supercars, and not enough time on what the average customer can afford or buy every day when he or she goes car-shopping. (I agree).


To be honest, Mike, I think that, though they could be improved and are not perfect, both you and me often do better reviews than a number of those in magazines....even considering that we basically lack some of the formal testing facilities that they have. And the reviews that are done and printed in local newspapers....well, don't even get me started on those.

mmarshall

You could do a LOT worse than a Q5 or SQ5. Nice vehicle

GQD_GS4

LexFather, do you work for Lexus? Seems like you interpret any opinion that dislikes the Lexus grill as a personal attack with all the CAPS LOCK going on in your responses. Mmarshall has been giving out honest, level-headed reviews (which are obviously his opinion) for years on CL, but when it comes to his opinion on the new Lexus designs, you are basically telling him to shut up.

I would love to own another Lexus. I can afford a lfa, but it doesnt appeal to me, nor do any of the current ugly spindle grills. Thats why Im not a current owner. If the spindle is what people asked for, then this thread would have had zero responses.

LexFather

And in my opinion Vince, I clearly stated if the current designs do not appeal to you that is fine. We live in a time today where cars have never been better, from non luxury brands to luxury brands to super luxury brands. You have clearly missed where I have been very critical and overly critical of Lexus but in this thread the subject is "where did Lexus go SO wrong" and they have not. The evidence shows while some people don't like it, the market and consumers do.

With respect to MMarshall, his reviews (dealership test drives) are cool which I have stated in the past. Some of us go way beyond that.

And no I cannot afford any LFA, not even a wrecked one.

My point and what others are trying to say is while Lexus might not appeal to the O.P, you, MMarshall, tons of other people, the market says otherwise. Thus things have not gone "so wrong", contrarily with record sales this year things are going "so right".

mmarshall

Possibly with the fact that V-TEC (VVTi) engines, in general, need to be wound out for max power-torque. The (arguably) worst examples, of course, were the non-turbo VTEC fours in older Honda Civics and the 2000-2005 Toyota Celica GTS. Those characeristics, in general, don't suit most Lexus products (though, of course, I'm not trying to compare those four-bangers to a Lexus). Lexus, in general, stresses engine/powertrain refinement....even in some of the F-models. As far as the F-models go, I remember driving the original IS-F with its 416 HP V8. It didn't have much torque below 3500 RPM, but when you hammered it, between 3600 and 4000 RPM, all hell broke loose. Getting max torque at that mid-range RPM is one thing....getting it at 7000 RPM or more, like with some VTEC engines, is another matter.