2015 Camry, commentary
02-08-14, 12:48 PM
#151
Lexus Fanatic
I've long-felt (and I'm not alone with my observation) that the best Camry was, far and way, the 4th-Generation 1992-1996 model, and that build quality/solidness took a slow but steady decline for some 15 years after that. The new, latest Camry last year stopped the downward spiral somewhat....but the suspension/tires, even in non-SE models, are now too stiff from mainstream Camry buyers.
During most of the 1990's, the Taurus (including its fleet-sales) see-sawed back and forth in a 3-way race with the Accord and Camry for top-selling car in America. After that classic see-saw, the Camry grabbed the top position and held it for quite a while.
I have to disagree with that. FAR too much emphasis, today, is being put on the so-called "youth" market. But, despite what manufacturers/marketers and the auto press may think, that's not where most of the money is. Study after study shows that the biggest single chunk of auto-buying dollars and disposable income is concentrated in the age 55-65 group..
Many May under-emphasize that demographic...you over-emphasize it.
02-08-14, 01:21 PM
#152
Lead Lap
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats just the point...nobody is saying there is a problem there was simply an article posted quoting Akio Toyoda as saying that the 2015 Camry was going to be a heavier refresh and that he intends to inject more style and personality into the car in response to new improved competition.
Its just that some of the more single minded Toyota fans on here believe that anything other than total adoration of this brand constitutes "flaming" the product.
No matter how well something sells now doesn't mean it will always be that way. Missteps happen...look at the Ford Taurus as a great example of that. In its day it was the Camry...best selling car of all...one poor redesign and its a rental car. Over time if the segment is desiring cars with more substance than the Camry (which...lets be honest isn't an exciting looking or feeling car)...it certainly is not impossible that may occur. So its good Toyota recognizes this and is prepared to make improvements before it becomes a problem...thats all we're saying. The fanboys would say we're heretics for saying such a thing on a Lexus forum which is absurd IMHO.
Right...more players...taking sales and market share from Toyota. More and better competition means the product has to be better. Its really pretty simple.
Sales were up in 2012 for many reasons, new Camry model, the vastly improved economy. Note market share was not up, it was down. Sales for everybody were up.
You can make excuses all you want...many of us will choose to support Toyota's decision to improve the car. Note...we are not simply suggesting they do so...THEY THEMSELVES have said it needs to be done and they will do so...so I have absolutely zero idea where you apologists are coming from.
You're saying the brand is wrong that their product needs to improve?!?!
Its just that some of the more single minded Toyota fans on here believe that anything other than total adoration of this brand constitutes "flaming" the product.
No matter how well something sells now doesn't mean it will always be that way. Missteps happen...look at the Ford Taurus as a great example of that. In its day it was the Camry...best selling car of all...one poor redesign and its a rental car. Over time if the segment is desiring cars with more substance than the Camry (which...lets be honest isn't an exciting looking or feeling car)...it certainly is not impossible that may occur. So its good Toyota recognizes this and is prepared to make improvements before it becomes a problem...thats all we're saying. The fanboys would say we're heretics for saying such a thing on a Lexus forum which is absurd IMHO.
Right...more players...taking sales and market share from Toyota. More and better competition means the product has to be better. Its really pretty simple.
Sales were up in 2012 for many reasons, new Camry model, the vastly improved economy. Note market share was not up, it was down. Sales for everybody were up.
You can make excuses all you want...many of us will choose to support Toyota's decision to improve the car. Note...we are not simply suggesting they do so...THEY THEMSELVES have said it needs to be done and they will do so...so I have absolutely zero idea where you apologists are coming from.
You're saying the brand is wrong that their product needs to improve?!?!
Where did I say that the Camry was faultless? Where did I say it didn't need some improvements? I can guarantee I've driven more current gen Camrys and their competition than anybody here. I know what its faults are, its strengths and I know them for their competition. I wholly welcome the 2015 update as it shows they're serious about being a leader in this segment.
That said, the constant whining from people who would never buy a Camry regardless of what it is is hugely tiresome. Listening to the hyperbole about how it's the worst car on earth and how everyone who buys one is a sheep is borderline obsessive, especially since these so-called "enthusiasts" deride it for being boring. As was pointed out, this thread has over 125 posts in it! Some boring car...
I also find it funny that the ones against it always try to stifle any attempts to defend the car from are mostly embellished truths or simply wrong facts. The funny thing is that many of you go through the same thing with people close-mindely bashing Lexus and go to great lengths to defend them.
Last edited by 84Cressida; 02-08-14 at 01:25 PM.
02-08-14, 01:24 PM
#153
Lead Lap
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Mazda isn't even capable of producing more 6's as they don't have the capacity"
Oh I'm sorry, who's problem is that? And I bet some of you saying this are the same fools who say the Tundra is a failure because it doesn't outsell the F-series, when Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to build Tundras and is all maxed out as well.
Oh I'm sorry, who's problem is that? And I bet some of you saying this are the same fools who say the Tundra is a failure because it doesn't outsell the F-series, when Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to build Tundras and is all maxed out as well.
02-08-14, 01:40 PM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
"Mazda isn't even capable of producing more 6's as they don't have the capacity"
Oh I'm sorry, who's problem is that? And I bet some of you saying this are the same fools who say the Tundra is a failure because it doesn't outsell the F-series, when Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to build Tundras and is all maxed out as well.
Oh I'm sorry, who's problem is that? And I bet some of you saying this are the same fools who say the Tundra is a failure because it doesn't outsell the F-series, when Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to build Tundras and is all maxed out as well.
That said, the constant whining from people who would never buy a Camry regardless of what it is is hugely tiresome. Listening to the hyperbole about how it's the worst car on earth and how everyone who buys one is a sheep is borderline obsessive, especially since these so-called "enthusiasts" deride it for being boring. As was pointed out, this thread has over 125 posts in it! Some boring car...
Who has said it's the worst car on earth?!? Who has said everyone who buys one is sheep? You guys are arguing against flamers who don't exist lol
It's not a Camry forum. If you want to talk with a bunch of Camry fans I would try a Camry forum.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-08-14 at 01:44 PM.
02-08-14, 03:49 PM
#155
Guest
Posts: n/a
That said, the constant whining from people who would never buy a Camry regardless of what it is is hugely tiresome. Listening to the hyperbole about how it's the worst car on earth and how everyone who buys one is a sheep is borderline obsessive, especially since these so-called "enthusiasts" deride it for being boring. As was pointed out, this thread has over 125 posts in it! Some boring car...
I also find it funny that the ones against it always try to stifle any attempts to defend the car from are mostly embellished truths or simply wrong facts. The funny thing is that many of you go through the same thing with people close-mindely bashing Lexus and go to great lengths to defend them.
I also find it funny that the ones against it always try to stifle any attempts to defend the car from are mostly embellished truths or simply wrong facts. The funny thing is that many of you go through the same thing with people close-mindely bashing Lexus and go to great lengths to defend them.
Makes me want a Camry, at least its not pretending to be something its not.
02-08-14, 03:54 PM
#156
Lexus Fanatic
If you want to see success blending style with substance look at the Accord and Civic.
02-08-14, 05:32 PM
#160
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CA™
Posts: 3,018
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That said, the constant whining from people who would never buy a Camry regardless of what it is is hugely tiresome. Listening to the hyperbole about how it's the worst car on earth and how everyone who buys one is a sheep is borderline obsessive, especially since these so-called "enthusiasts" deride it for being boring. As was pointed out, this thread has over 125 posts in it! Some boring car...
I also find it funny that the ones against it always try to stifle any attempts to defend the car from are mostly embellished truths or simply wrong facts. The funny thing is that many of you go through the same thing with people close-mindely bashing Lexus and go to great lengths to defend them.
I also find it funny that the ones against it always try to stifle any attempts to defend the car from are mostly embellished truths or simply wrong facts. The funny thing is that many of you go through the same thing with people close-mindely bashing Lexus and go to great lengths to defend them.
02-08-14, 07:22 PM
#163
Lexus Fanatic
Actually the Taurus was the best selling car from 1992-1996. No see saws.
It depends on the segment you are talking about. You don't design a compact car, or a family sedan to the needs and wants of the 55-65 year old age group.
Avalon...ES...Buick Lacrosse...Chevy Impala...sure. While I agree with you that generation is ignored unreasonably, not in every segment.
Many May under-emphasize that demographic...you over-emphasize it.
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-08-14 at 07:38 PM.
02-08-14, 07:49 PM
#164
Lexus Fanatic
As for the age groups, you have to realize that you approach every segment and every design decision from the perspective of the 55-65 demographic right
EVERY car can't be designed for them.
02-08-14, 07:55 PM
#165
Lexus Fanatic
We are in an age of style over substance and that is what many of these vehicles provide.
And one of the biggest and most widespread offenders, style-wise, today, is the humpback-whale roofline on many sedans (trying to make them look like four-door coupes) that makes rear entry/exit and headroom often difficult for taller persons.
Makes me want a Camry, at least its not pretending to be something its not.