Fizzboy7

Like the Camry, it's more of a question of "how many more Civics would they be selling if they had a better product?" The Civic's story is similar to the Camry's story. Both have or had areas that needed obvious improvements and both got criticism each has never received before. In the case of the Camry, it was the president's own words. In the case of the Civic, it was the press and two rare emergency refreshes.

Someone earlier had a great example with McDonald's Big Mac. It may be the best-selling burger, but that doesn't mean it's great or has room for improving.

There's always this business question, "how many more could we be selling if we did it this way or did it that way?" In the auto industry, a shift has taken place in the mid-sized family sedan category. Plain vanilla no longer cuts it and people want everything in one package, including some style.

SW17LS

But...the Civic has improving sales and market share while the Camry does not. I don't really see the parallel.

spwolf

In 2008 Civic sold more than in 2013... And I doubt Civic has larger market share as all of the competition sells better now than in 2008, simply because they all have competitive vehicles finally. Elantra alone tripled their sales compared to 2008, Sentra is selling better, Jetta too, not even mentioning KIA.... heck even Impreza almost doubled its sales.

Toyota and Honda will never have those market shares as in 2007/2008, simply because Detroit 3 were at extinction point and they did not have competitive vehicles. It will never happen again.

spwolf

I am sure people want some style, but they are still buying Camry, more than in 2012 and despite everything written above.

As to Civic, it was ridiculous refresh where their PR'd the heck out of it and if you compare the pics of before and after, they added chrome rings everywhere and changed color of 2 materials and called it a major refresh.

If Camry does this, nothing will change at all. It is just a PR stunt.

SW17LS

I can't find sales figures for 2008, but I would argue that sales in 2008 were fueled by the hybrid car craze in those fee years. That generation Civic Hybrid was very popular.

Civic is the best selling compact car right now, bottom line. Do you realize the hypocrisy of your position that the Camry is all it should be because it's the top seller, but the Civic being the top seller is meaningless?

You literally are deriding our argument about the Camry and making the same argument against the Civic. It's entertaining.

LexBob2

The 2008 sales figures would be interesting as it was the start of the recession here in the U.S.

JDR76

Not that one month makes a trend, but just for accuracy, it should be noted that the Corolla outsold the Civic in January.

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...compact-sales/

SW17LS

I can't seem to find them....2008 was a bad year for auto sales in general, but it was very good for small economical cars and especially hybrids because fuel prices were crazy and people were paying over MSRP for hybrids remember?

SW17LS

That's the new Corolla...a new Corolla that is way more stylish and interesting. I would not be surprised if the new Corolla outsold the Civic this year. That's our point, buyers want a little something more than reliability nowadays. Toyota has given them that with the new Corolla...

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Mike, please exit this thread.

The ongoing rude personal callouts are not necessary to disagree with another members perspective. We have discussed many times in the past that our members have no requirement to share their personal details, nor do they all have to agree with your perspectives in order for their opinion to be personally valid and heard.

spwolf

what? I never said that... i am saying Civic is not being in better position than Camry, where you claimed how Civic is increasing market share unlike Camry, it is simply not true.

As to the Civic doing better and bigger marketshare, it is SAME story as Camry. Competition was bad in 2007 and hence Civic had a lot larger market share than today. Only difference is that Camry is actually sales leader, while Civic changes places with other cars, depending on year, plus Camry sold 70k units more in 2013.

Similarities go on, with people claiming new Elantra and Focus would overtake Civic/Corolla, few years back... it never happened... just like didnt happen with Fusion and Sonata... but sure, marketshare is down simply because it was unrealistically high before.

SW17LS

The Camry is the sales leader for now. The margin between it and the Accord is slimmer than ever. Like I said, I'm going to make a bold prediction that the Accord will overtake the Camry *** ales leader. Yes the Camry sold more units, but lost market share and it's lead is slimmer than ever.

You speak as if the Camry has ALWAYS been the leader, it hasn't. It has for a few years now, but other cars have held the position before and will again. Accord is 30k units away. More buyers for the Civic than the Corolla helps that too since a lot of these buyers stay with the same brand.

It happened to the Corolla, it certainly can happen to the Camry.

spwolf

not sure if Corolla will outsell Civic for 2014... Toyota has a problem with capacity for Corolla, since after NUMMI was shutdown... they opened up new plant for new Corolla, but I doubt they still have capacity to pump out more cars than Honda...so what will happen likely is that Honda will increase incentives a bit and end up selling more Civic's.

SW17LS

Don't know, the new Corolla should do much better bit capacity will be an issue I agree

Sulu

You can't be serious?!?!?!?!? A bland Passat (or a bland Accord) is acceptable but a bland Camry is the cause for starting World War 3?

What a perfect reflection of this thread -- absolute and utter craziness. Do you people ever read what you write?