yowps3

The epitome of Double standards ^^

It's sickening the level of Toyota & Camry bashing on these auto websites. Members of LLN in particular seem to hate anything Toyota with a passion.

SW17LS

To me the issue is the Passat is bland but elegant looking, and I do t feel the Accord is bland. I don't find the Camry elegant looking.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ok all, just agree to disagree... some like or are ok with camry looks / content, some are not. no need to call others' opinions crazy, sickening, etc. it's subjective.

hlee12

i agree. Accord is bland. but it's a good bland. it's one of the better looking family sedan. i'll take accord over camry anytime anyday. hell, i'll take accord over passat too. better ride, reliability, and better interior. only thing i like about passat's interior is the huge rear seat.



i repeatedly said Passat is a better vanilla of the two.I find Passat a safe german design that works on many angles. it looks bit more 'dressed up' than camry. and it just feels bit more substantial exterior wise. i'm aware that Passat didn't raise the level. it's probably not the best looking offering. (IMO, mazda6 is). but it's has a good balance of vanilla/elegance. my problem with passat is its lazy interior and so-so quality.

on the other hand camry isn't just a vanilla. i Camry IMO has many issues.

-it's proportion makes it look smaller
-wedge shape isn't for everyone. just funky looking. compare that to passat's hoffmeister kink
- front is tad busy
- rear 3/4 looks off - it looks like it's a compact sedan


am i really bashing toyota? I find Avalon & Corolla very handsome. those 2 are among leaders in their classes. I hate Rav4. but I like highlander. Tundra to me is the best looking truck. I hate scion TC, but i love FRS. so on.

I'm always about product vs. product. as far as family sedan goes Camry is one of the weakest link in terms of design both interior and exterior IMO. I see Mazda6 park next to Camry every day. Mazda6 is making camry look very old and weary. but IMO passat holds its own against mazda6. passat has that safe/elegant/understated appeal to it. but of course, interior is rather cheap and dated.

LeX2K

You should listen to some of the things VW salespeople say about Toyota. Most of the stuff is just downright lies, one tried to tell me that all new Toyota's have under hood electrical problems and you can't wash the engine bay because of it. Also told me the door hinges bend easily and in a few years the doors won't sit right. And told me the Camry has bare wires in the trunk, I looked and no it does not.

I think they tell this stuff to the staff during meetings or something.

yowps3

I didn't say that you were bashing.

Here is the thing I actually agree with you about the aesthetics of the current Camry. I never liked it from the beginning. I thought the previous gen Camry looked a lot better. It had a smoother and more vivid design. The current Camry I agree just doesn't look nice from almost every angle.

The only compelling aspect of the current Camry is the very nice V6 motor under the hood. One could say that motor deserves a better body.

hlee12

i agree that last gen is better although even the last gen wasn't my cup of tea.

but aurion looked good. not earth shattering, but i could live with this. just better overall presentation IMO


looks dated now, but back then it was definitely above average.

LeX2K

Which you can get in a Lexus. I don't really like the styling of the current gen Camry either, but I don't hate it. It does look better in person I'll say that.

Carmaker1

That is not true. Honda originally by early 2009, had a finalized Civic body design frozen earlier in 2008 and were already engineering it for production scheduled for late 2010. They made the decision the de-content it in April 2009 (due to recession), delaying production start to 2011 as a MY2012. With a redone 2012 design in late 2009, by April 2010 Honda realized these mistakes and eventually got started on a rushed facelift. That arrived by December 2012.

I mention this as the "press" never caught wind of this decision until spring 2011, so they weren't entirely a factor in it.

Quite questionable the validity of this particular statement, as it is too opinionated and heavily biased towards Toyota, when Honda launched this facelift within 20 months of initial market launch in April 2011. Honda has pretty much interrupted their regular schedule of mid-cycle changes during a Civic's 5 year life-cycle (8th generation Civic was extended for 6 months to facilitate 2012 launch delays).

Toyota has instead waited until the current Camry's mid-cycle, which follows a 25-year tradition of 3 years after initial launch, since 1989 (see 1986-1991 or 1990 Camry). That is acceptable, even if the Camry has not been satisfactory. The Civic and Camry situations are not fully comparable, unless Toyota jump started parallel work on a 2013 Camry refresh during final development in early-mid 2011. Then similarly launching the same level of changes within 18-20 months by early 2013. They did not, but waited until typical scheduling.

I concur with your 2 latter paragraphs, as I also do not like blind favoritism nor unfair biases. The level of changes the Civic received as quickly as it did (in 19-20 months), were extraordinary at face value. It had been in the cards since 2010, which explains quick arrival.

Toyota reasonably waited a usual 3 years (33-34 months) since initial launch and has paralleled the launch of this Camry MMC, with mid-stage development of the next generation due in 2016-17.

I do not understand how anyone can compare them based on that, when different approaches were taken. Toyota did not nor could they budge to make similar changes as early.

yowps3

Yeah the previous gen Aurion looked very nice;



It looked like a Lexus LS

It even had a cool looking instrument panel


But unfortunately Toyota killed it with this new Aurion;

hlee12

yikes that new aurion looks tacky. yeah, last gen was much better. that black one looks clean.

SW17LS

Actually I tried to say that I do not feel the Accord is bland. I really like the new Accord.

Thats car salespeople being car salespeople. Thats not unique to VW.

oldcajun

I agree. I once had a BMW salesman tell me that BMWs were superior to Lexus because all Japanese cars are made from scrap steel while German cars are all made from "new" steel. There was also a Mercedes salesman that claimed that the government had proven that all Toyota products had electrical design faults that caused the cars to accelerate on their own. We don't know about it because Toyota paid off the government.

Some will say anything to sell a car.

Steve

spwolf

Not sure what exactly are you questioning, Civic facelift was maybe year soon but it didnt change the car dramatically... they added a lot of chrome and changed 2-3 materials and colors. Of course they PR'd the heck out of it, just like Toyota will PR this.

Also, Camry is the best selling car on the market, just got rated best quality car in the class and obviously Toyota is very profitable company so Camry brings them profits. Not sure why hasnt it been satisfactory?

LexBob2

I agree. They all do it to one degree or another when they know you are also looking at the competition.