2015 Camry, commentary
#91
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Toyota has said and shown that being the most reliable appliance isn't enough anymore if they want to maintain their sales dominance. If you look at new vehicles like the Corolla...they are matching their words with action. This is a GOOD thing...so why are we fighting about it?.
#92
Lexus Fanatic
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I think that you guys over-react a little bit to criticisms of the Camry. You have to understand that members on forums are enthusiasts, and the Camry really is the anti-enthusiast vehicle. Its a car for someone who really doesn't like cars, and to an enthusiast that sort of car is bewildering.
...
Toyota has said and shown that being the most reliable appliance isn't enough anymore if they want to maintain their sales dominance. If you look at new vehicles like the Corolla...they are matching their words with action. This is a GOOD thing...so why are we fighting about it?
If you look at the Corolla or the Rav4 though you will see that the much improved interior quality is achievable on cars costing less than the Camry. Toyota's competitors can offer a better interior for the money...Toyota can too.
I think that you guys over-react a little bit to criticisms of the Camry. You have to understand that members on forums are enthusiasts, and the Camry really is the anti-enthusiast vehicle. Its a car for someone who really doesn't like cars, and to an enthusiast that sort of car is bewildering.
...
Toyota has said and shown that being the most reliable appliance isn't enough anymore if they want to maintain their sales dominance. If you look at new vehicles like the Corolla...they are matching their words with action. This is a GOOD thing...so why are we fighting about it?
If you look at the Corolla or the Rav4 though you will see that the much improved interior quality is achievable on cars costing less than the Camry. Toyota's competitors can offer a better interior for the money...Toyota can too.
#94
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Fizzboy7
Sedate family sedans in this class no longer cut it thanks to other makes raising the bar and giving style, along with reliability and everything else in one package.
+10 QFT
#95
Lexus Fanatic
Uh...they have a Sport version right now:
They also have for many years had a very sporty coupe.
We're not only talking about "sportiness" we're talking about styling, features & quality. As we've discussed before, times and desires change. There is a market for a more interesting, better built more dynamic family sedan obviously.
They also have for many years had a very sporty coupe.
We're not only talking about "sportiness" we're talking about styling, features & quality. As we've discussed before, times and desires change. There is a market for a more interesting, better built more dynamic family sedan obviously.
#96
Lexus Fanatic
Interesting point, but is it a true sport-sedan? That's somewhat arguable.
Here (from the web-site) is what differentiates the Sport (sedan) model from the LX. Looks to me like mostly cosmetic stuff, except maybe for the larger wheels.
Sport
Adding to or replacing features on the LX •189-hp (SAE Net), 2.4-Liter, 16-Valve, DOHC i-VTEC® 4-Cylinder Engine with Direct Injection
•Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) with Paddle Shifters (available)
•18-Inch Alloy Wheels
•Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel
•Driver's Seat with 10-Way Power Adjustment, Including Power Lumbar Support
•Body-Colored Decklid Spoiler
•Fog Lights
•Chrome Exhaust Finishers
Here (from the web-site) is what differentiates the Sport (sedan) model from the LX. Looks to me like mostly cosmetic stuff, except maybe for the larger wheels.
Sport
Adding to or replacing features on the LX •189-hp (SAE Net), 2.4-Liter, 16-Valve, DOHC i-VTEC® 4-Cylinder Engine with Direct Injection
•Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) with Paddle Shifters (available)
•18-Inch Alloy Wheels
•Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel
•Driver's Seat with 10-Way Power Adjustment, Including Power Lumbar Support
•Body-Colored Decklid Spoiler
•Fog Lights
•Chrome Exhaust Finishers
#97
Lexus Fanatic
At its core the Accord is much more satisfying to drive than the Camry to start out with...obviously both Honda and Toyota see the shift in the market towards a more dynamic driving experience. The Accord has gained ground on the Camry which is in the midst of a long term attrition in market share when it is the more interesting, firmer, sportier more dynamic driving car. Thats the market speaking.
Again...Akio Toyoda agrees with us...and the proof is in the Corolla...the Rav 4...even the Highlander.
Wanna see what I would buy in this range? This:
Sales of the Mazda 6 are up HUGE. 200%. Small fraction of Camry sales...but much smaller dealer network...intrenched segment.. it shows the market for a car like this. Not saying the Camry needs to be a Mazda 3...but making the ol Camry a little better built, more stylish, and more dynamic might just keep someone's eye from wandering.
Last edited by SW17LS; 01-30-14 at 10:21 AM.
#98
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I don't think anybody can make an argument that the Camry has not improved over the previous generation. Styling is subjective (I would call neither generation good looking) but inside I think the current car is obviously an improvement. Materials are terrible...but they were in the previous car too. Toyota hopefully has seen the errors of their ways here if the Highlander is any example.
The issue is, this segment is really on fire. There are so many other good entrants out there now building stylish, comfortable, and yes dependable sedans that the Camry's lead has indeed been chipped away at. Toyoda is signaling he understands this, and he means to bring to the Camry what his competitors have brought to their cars. As a Toyota/Lexus enthusiast I think this is fabulous news...Toyota is guilty of resting on its laurels a little from about 2005 until now IMHO.
I don't really understand how this thread got to this point. Toyota has released a statement saying they are going to make the Camry better...are we saying the Camry doesn't need to be better and please keep your improvements Toyota?!? I don't understand...
The issue is, this segment is really on fire. There are so many other good entrants out there now building stylish, comfortable, and yes dependable sedans that the Camry's lead has indeed been chipped away at. Toyoda is signaling he understands this, and he means to bring to the Camry what his competitors have brought to their cars. As a Toyota/Lexus enthusiast I think this is fabulous news...Toyota is guilty of resting on its laurels a little from about 2005 until now IMHO.
I don't really understand how this thread got to this point. Toyota has released a statement saying they are going to make the Camry better...are we saying the Camry doesn't need to be better and please keep your improvements Toyota?!? I don't understand...
And again it seems a lot of the positives posted about other brands are about STYLING. I posted the Altima got voted some terrible car and no one said a thing. Hyundai/Kia have stylish cars and lie about MPG and no one barely said a thing.
BTW, the Camry SE is one of the drivers cars of this group. Of course no one wants to say it or hear about it.
As someone that just happened upon this thread and read through the whole thing in one sitting...I will give you my viewpoint.
I think that you guys over-react a little bit to criticisms of the Camry. You have to understand that members on forums are enthusiasts, and the Camry really is the anti-enthusiast vehicle..
I think that you guys over-react a little bit to criticisms of the Camry. You have to understand that members on forums are enthusiasts, and the Camry really is the anti-enthusiast vehicle..
Someone sent me this pic just last week. He's not an enthusiast?
#99
Lexus Fanatic
At its core the Accord is much more satisfying to drive than the Camry to start out with...
Wanna see what I would buy in this range? This:
If you like the Mazda6, you'd probably love the (roughly) same-size Buick Regal GS, though it admittedly is in a slightly higher price range. You can take it to the bank, however, that it is definitely NOT Grandpa's Buick.
BTW, at the D.C. auto show, the Mazda reps said that a turbo MazdaSpeed3 is probably in the works...but much less likely for the 6.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-30-14 at 10:55 AM.
#100
Lexus Fanatic
There are Camry owners here and imagine reading the Camry hate on a Lexus forum over and over and over. Trust, they get it enough everywhere else.
BTW, the Camry SE is one of the drivers cars of this group. Of course no one wants to say it or hear about it.
Someone sent me this pic just last week. He's not an enthusiast?
Originally Posted by mmarshall
f you like the Mazda6, you'd probably love the (roughly) same-size Buick Regal GS, though it admittedly is in a slightly higher price range. You can take it to the bank that it is definitely NOT Grandpa's Buick.
I'd certainly buy a Regal GS over a Camry also.
Last edited by SW17LS; 01-30-14 at 11:27 AM.
#101
I like Mazda6 a lot better than Camry, but Camry will never be anything like Mazda6, which sells simply terribly in the USA.
Mazda overall is doing pretty bad in the USA right now, despite new models that are rated really well. This literally means that most people dont care about what enthusiasts and car magazines want from their cars.
Mazda overall is doing pretty bad in the USA right now, despite new models that are rated really well. This literally means that most people dont care about what enthusiasts and car magazines want from their cars.
#102
Lots of you talked about "Beauty and Taste" which is subjective. I owned a Camry SE and I liked it. It's affordable, reliable and somewhat nice looking (subjective). I think Toyota said that they will "improve" the Camry in '15 then that is great news. Making something good better is always welcome.
#103
Lexus Fanatic
Its not a zero sum game. Mazda is certainly a much smaller player than say Toyota...but that doesn't mean their sales are "simply terrible". 838 Mazda dealerships in the US and nearly 1,500 Toyota dealers.
This literally means that most people dont care about what enthusiasts and car magazines want from their cars.
How many calls did you get today asking for your services as CEO of a major automaker?
Last edited by SW17LS; 01-30-14 at 01:49 PM.
#104
Lexus Champion
Lots of you talked about "Beauty and Taste" which is subjective. I owned a Camry SE and I liked it. It's affordable, reliable and somewhat nice looking (subjective). I think Toyota said that they will "improve" the Camry in '15 then that is great news. Making something good better is always welcome.
Exactly. There is a lot of talk about how the Honda Accord is sooo much better than the Camry -- beautiful looking, sporty drive, whatever. I don't get it. My wife has a 2013 Accord and I don't think that it is G*d's gift to mid-size sedans.
It is a BIIIGGG car, and looks it and feels it. I think the rear end looks FAT (I have found the past few Accord models to suffer from Big Butt syndrome). You sit very low in the car and the instrument panel sits VERY high, so much so that the steering wheel sits much too high, making for a VERY uncomfortable drive. The car drives like a large, heavy car also. I would not rate it a nimble, sporty drive. It is a nice drive on the highway but it is NOT a nimble, sporty car.
#105
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I like Mazda6 a lot better than Camry, but Camry will never be anything like Mazda6, which sells simply terribly in the USA.
Mazda overall is doing pretty bad in the USA right now, despite new models that are rated really well. This literally means that most people dont care about what enthusiasts and car magazines want from their cars.
Mazda overall is doing pretty bad in the USA right now, despite new models that are rated really well. This literally means that most people dont care about what enthusiasts and car magazines want from their cars.
b) Mazda 6's are everywhere around where I live. Sells terribly? I think not.