SW17LS

Nobody said the Accord was nimble, we said it was nimbler.

BIIG car? I don't see that. The new Accord is actually smaller than the old Accord.

speedflex

So let's respond to that.

So Consumer Reports (the same CR which is tagged "worthless rag" whenever it is less than complementary of Toyota/Lexus) is used as a barometer in this case against the Altima. Ok. But what are they saying? That the Altima 3.5 (not the 2.4) is the worst value in the sedan class? Well, fine. Based on what? Is it MPG, utility, reliability? And why isn't the 4 cylinder just as bad a value? I couldn't take that article seriously for lack of meaning. What is the standard they are using for value? Not clear on that.

I do know this. Speaking for myself, the Camry ranks last in appeal in a crowded segment. A segment which contains ever more stylish and expressive designs. And that's what this thread starts and ends with... style and design. It's what Akio Toyoda is referring to so I don't see the significance of bringing anything else up.

Now if we want to talk other virtues and how they make up for the Camry's lack of style that's ok too. But really, the current Camry doesn't really set a bar in most of those areas either. Am I beating up on the Camry? No. Am I being critical of it? Yes.

It's a good car. But what I keep hearing from defenders is that it does what it's designed to do... and it sells. Well, so does a gas-station wrist watch. But I'd feel a whole lot better wearing something that looks and feels like the designers had some inspiration... who understood what style is. There has to be a better response than, "it excels at being mediocre".

The customer for this segment is evolving. They're starting to be more critical and demanding of design in everything from furniture to cell phones. Toyota already recognizes this. That's why we're seeing more advanced and emotional designs from them lately. The Camry is due for this same injection of passion.

Sulu

I don't care if you don't think that the Accord is not that big. It may be smaller than the previous generation Accord, but it is still a large vehicle (wider and longer than the Camry), and IN MY OPINION it looks absolutely HUGE.

If you can have your opinions, I can have mine, and that is the whole thrust of this thread. Some people here just do not seem to accept the fact that others can have differing opinions.

I like the Camry and do not like the Accord. You may like the Accord but not like the Camry. I DO NOT CARE. Let's not fight over opinions. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong when it comes to personal opinions.

SW17LS

I'm not arguing over your opinions at all...this thread though, like all other threads is a discussion of opinions. That's the whole point of a discussion forum.

Again...not arguing but to be factual, the Camry and Accord are within 1-2 inches of each other in size:

Camry:
Length: 189.2"
Width: 71.7"

Accord:
Length: 191.4"
Width: 72.8"

The Accord is 1.8" longer, and 1.1" wider. IMHO that's not really a significant difference.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ya think?

that's right - most of the defensive comments here are based on the past, best selling for x years, sales up, etc., but toyota and other makers must always look hard at how they REALLY compete in the present and plan what they need to do to AT LEAST stay competitive going forward, which never means standing still. companies must predict where they need to be years in advance. make the wrong prediction or have the bean counters decide that it's 'good enough' to keep milking revenue out of a current design or with some fluff added, which might work for a while, and before you know it, you're in deep trouble. as a former CEO of massively successful chip maker Intel once said (and named his book), only the paranoid survive.

'true sport sedan' is subjective. is that panamera or camry se? some will say both, some will say neither, some one or the other.

exactly. some fans of CR assume everything in it is objective, which is hardly the case.

exactly! akio toyoda has looked hard at where his products are, especially the very important camry here, and realized that he must make a bigger more daring move to be positioned properly in the future. is it risky? sure, although not THAT much given that the vehicle and reputation have so much weight and momentum. just a bmw roundel, slap a camry logo on a turd and it will still sell a bunch.

outstanding!

part of that is driven by the ever changing variety of what's being offered. part by the vast availability of information. part by social media peer pressure even. and sophistication in one area influences another. in the past year alone i've met lots of seniors who have driven boring cars for most of their lives and have finally dumped their aging 'flip phones' and gotten iphones and galaxy s4's etc., and their eyes have been opened to wanting something beautiful and not just reliable. ALL cars are pretty darned reliable these days. resale value? if you're 60 you don't care about resale value. you might have the car until you're 70 and you've no idea what you'll be doing (if anything) then. so i find the zillion seniors in florida taking more chances, going from old boring gm and ford cars to cuvs, little kia souls, fusions, avalons, mazda 5's, etc., but less on the camry/accord duo.

they are on it, and that's very promising.

SW17LS

Just a smidge!

yowps3

Sonata now looks very fugly. Fusion is a bloated boat and a fuel guzzler, the Altima is bloated to drive and has a CVT which SUCKS, the Accord is nice but it's not as comfortable as the Camry to drive and as someone mentioned above the steering is too high and the interior in general is chintzy, tacky & too busy. The Optima used to look nice but the facelifted model looks ugly and well it and the Sonata just aren't as 'refined' as the others. The Mazda 6 is good but being a Mazda it's a niche product.

The Camry is the most comfortable, fuel efficient and simply best all rounder car. With the Hybrid & a nice powerful V6 Toyota has the mid size market covered pretty well.

The best Camry is the 3rd GEN Camry. But those days are long gone and they don't do them like that anymore.

Your statement is all about design which IMO is a very subjective topic.

speedflex

More of the same.

spwolf

sure... I prefer Mazda6 too. Actually, I would have never bought any Camry. I would have never bought any RX and any ES. Should I now say that Camry, RX, ES are failures and Toyota is going down, down, down, because I dont like it? No. Thats why they produce almost 100 different models world wide.

And does that mean that average 55yr old Camry buyer prefers Mazda6? No it does not.

And besides, when 2012 Camry was introduced in 2011, it was actually winning reviews based on its better drive, better looks and better interior compared to old model and its competition.

So basically what you are saying is that Toyota should have designed 2015 Camry, not 2012. Because 2012 beat Accord, Mazda, Ford, Hyundai in most reviews. Heck SE was beating every other model with exception of Passat.

I dont know whats so hard to understand here.

GiantsFan

iTrader: (9)

IMO the mazda 6 is the best looking one of the bunch ... but they don't offer a V6

... I'll take a SE V6

speedflex

What are you talking about? No one said Toyota was on some downward spiral. We're talking about style and design. Please read my posts because I don't think you're getting my point at all.

Why is there such a knee jerk reaction to ANY criticism of a Toyota product?

spwolf

i am replying to your post.

as i said in my previous post, when 2012 Camry started selling in 2011, it was considered stylish, with great improvement in handling, interior, looks. It won comparo reviews.

Now it is old car in the segment where all of the competition is newer. Sure, here is the facelift. Life goes on, same as always.

SteVTEC

Moderator edit - SteVTEC, please exit this thread.

Absolutely no need for personal insults and callouts.

yowps3

Styling is subjective.

I find the Koreans & Fusion FUGLY ^

I8ABMR

I say increase the wheel size by an inch, lower the car by 10mm and freshen it up. Make it car that people want to own for more than just reliability. Toyota and Lexus need to learn this . Lexus seems to be moving. Toyota is crawling in the desire department . The new Avalon, corolla, and Highlander look great, but the bread and butter is the Camry and they need to jazz it up